18 killed in school shooting

[Snowhog]

Thomas Jefferson: "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

It's debatable whether or not we are now experiencing tyranny, as one can, today, reasonably say that the People are in fear of the Government.

[GreyGeek]

[TWPonKubuntu]

GG, I like both of your videos. I do think the presentation has been "dumbed down" to reach the lowest common denominator...

The actual arguments being presented are, In My Opinion, valid. I guess there are people who can't listen to this without a cartoon running in the background. And this is from a University?

For those who are following this, Prager University has several more videos in this vein.

[woodsmoke]

I remain mute.

woodVALUESALLSTATEMENTSsmoke

[GreyGeek]

Fact checking a common myth repeated often by anti-2A proponents:
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...us-and-europe/

[GreyGeek]

No, there were NOT 18 school shootings in the US so far in 2018, but the media wants you to believe it.
When you see how they arrived at that number you will see how biased and agenda driven they are:
https://www.investors.com/politics/e...ot-even-close/

[ianp5a]

No, there were NOT 18 school shootings in the US so far in 2018, but the media wants you to believe it.
When you see how they arrived at that number you will see how biased and agenda driven they are:
https://www.investors.com/politics/e...ot-even-close/

Accidents, suicides, robbers with guns! All terrible incidents, as well as the other 'real' shootings. You consider all those things normal?

You do realise that all of that is not necessary? And that with some effort, eventually the death toll could be reduced to the levels of an average European or Scandinavian country. And be free from the threat and the fear. And the cost of firearms, security measures and special training.

[GreyGeek]

Accidents, suicides, robbers with guns! All terrible incidents, as well as the other 'real' shootings. You consider all those things normal?

You do realise that all of that is not necessary? And that with some effort, eventually the death toll could be reduced to the levels of an average European or Scandinavian country. And be free from the threat and the fear. And the cost of firearms, security measures and special training.

You apparently didn’t read the article. It points out that even with the highly restrictive gun laws in European countries the death toll rates in 11 or 12 of them were greater than America’s. So, all those regulations and “efforts” aren’t as effective as one might believe.

Being free and allowing others the same freedoms you enjoy comes with risks. Turning a country into a giant prison can certainly reduce, but never eliminate risks to life and property.

Straight jackets and padded cells for everyone except the jailers would be more effective, but who would watch the watchers? Americans have just gone through the discovery that the FBI, the IRS, EPA, ATF and DOJ, among other Federal agencies, had been weaponized against half the population, the conservative half. And you are recommending that we trust the watchers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TWPonKubuntu]

Accidents, suicides, robbers with guns! All terrible incidents, as well as the other 'real' shootings. You consider all those things normal?

You do realise that all of that is not necessary? And that with some effort, eventually the death toll could be reduced to the levels of an average European or Scandinavian country. And be free from the threat and the fear. And the cost of firearms, security measures and special training.

The point of the article linked by GreyGeek was that the news media was counting any shooting which happened NEAR a school, whether it was related to the school or not. This is "spinning" of the news to fit an agenda.

RE your description of the result of, I assume, a ban on gun ownership, is (IMO) naive at best and more likely the result of your buying into the narrative being pushed by the anti-gun faction.

What you describe is NOT a low crime society, but rather as society which no longer has the ability to defend itself.

A society which is at the "mercy" of both those who would still legally have guns (the police and military) and those very same criminals, still with guns, which are the source of the problem.

...
And be free from the threat and the fear.
...

Not true, it will, instead transfer the threat and fear to include those who would still have guns, ie. police, military and criminals.

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Sir Winston Churchill

Please, don't buy into the anti-gun propaganda. Look behind these claims and ask Why they are being pushed on you. You will find that power, control and money are the overwhelming motivating factors and NOT the desire to make the citizens safer nor to reduce the casualty rate. 'Tis the nature of the beast.

[edit] GreyGeek beat me to it by seconds. What he said ^^^^^

[GreyGeek]

When the Maryland General Assembly passed one of the strictest gun laws in the nation in 2013, gun control advocates made sweeping statements about how the legislation would prevent gun violence, reduce the criminal element and save lives.

Although the Firearm Safety Act was challenged, a U.S. District Court judge in Baltimore upheld the law. Judge Catherine Blake concluded that the law protected public safety without compromising the right of "law abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home."

That's because the law makes carrying firearms, open or concealed, illegal without permits that are difficult to get and require the citizen to "justify" the possession of a concealed carry permit to the bureaucrat issuing the permit. (When unelected bureaucrats control your lives you live in a bureaucracy).

Baltimore, which added to the states restrictive laws with even more restrictive ordinances of their own, has learned that over the last 5 years gun violence has increased, and so has the criminal element, contrary to the promises of those who worked to get the anti-2A laws passed.

Crime in Baltimore was about 6X higher than outside metropolitan areas, following the passage of the anti gun bill.

The reason isn't a mysterious unknown. Bad guys don't care about gun laws, even if the laws totally outlawed all firearms. And with the new, more restrictive laws, the thugs KNOW that they face a diminished chance of encountering an armed victim. The State and city have combined to put a virtual "No Guns" sign on the door of every business and public building in Baltimore. That's why the brazen crook laid his gun down on the counter, within his reach but out of reach of the victim, as an advertisement that proclaimed "I have the power but you do not".

Laws infringing the 2A only punish the honest law-abiding citizens for crimes they did not commit.

In a previous post I showed that America doesn't rank in the top ten, per capita, in mass shooting crimes around the world. What was also obvious on that list, but no one pointed it out, was that those at the bottom of the list include the most tyrannical countries in the world.

[Snowhog]

NRA: The Truth about Background Checks

Three years ago, Wayne LaPierre told the truth about background checks. And the anti-gun media buried it. Don’t let them do it again. Like and share this post to spread the word.

“Mass shootings have become the most successful show in the history of the America news media, and the shooters are their stars.” – NRA’s Colion Noir

[GreyGeek]

And if you don't want to use Facebook here is the YT copy.

[ianp5a]

RE your description of the result of, I assume, a ban on gun ownership, is (IMO) naive at best and more likely the result of your buying into the narrative being pushed by the anti-gun faction.

I didn't say anything about a ban on guns. My point was about reducing the massive death toll.

[ianp5a]

You apparently didn’t read the article. It points out that even with the highly restrictive gun laws in European countries the death toll rates in 11 or 12 of them were greater than America’s. So, all those regulations and “efforts” aren't as effective as one might believe.

The number of gun deaths in Europe is nothing like that of the USA.
If you compare the USA to the worst countries for gun crime, sure it will look less bad. But compare it to countries of similar economic standing, and you'll see how bad the situation is in the USA.

I get the impression you don't realise how bad it really is. Or maybe don't want to.
The number of US gun related deaths/head is more than 10 times that of where I live. (Germany). The regulations are working very well for all the people here, who don't feel the need to be armed, or have special security measures, training and costs.

I have no political motivations here. I just see a lot of slaughter and a system that is failing, as well as a lot of denial and little being achieved.

[Bings]

The number of gun deaths in Europe is nothing like that of the USA.
If you compare the USA to the worst countries for gun crime, sure it will look less bad. But compare it to countries of similar economic standing, and you'll see how bad the situation is in the USA.

I get the impression you don't realise how bad it really is. Or maybe don't want to.
The number of US gun related deaths/head is more than 10 times that of where I live. (Germany). The regulations are working very well for all the people here, who don't feel the need to be armed, or have special security measures, training and costs.

I have no political motivations here. I just see a lot of slaughter and a system that is failing, as well as a lot of denial and little being achieved.

Until they (the US) competently impose the controls they do access have to and show whether or not they are enough, it remains difficult to argue for more. Plus there are other cultural issues, you must also factor apart from just lots of guns being around. For example the US, due to the existence of direct to consumer advertising, is an extremely prolific use of pharmaceutical drugs and in some cases has large proportions of entire towns languishing in opioid abuse. This is significant because wherever they are, just about every mass murderer has evidence of some sort of drug use. It's a very under discussed topic though.