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    #31
    ianp5a and Bings;

    Do beware of relying on what the main stream media (MSM) is reporting. You both make valid points with respect to the results, ie. deaths from gun and drug influenced violence. I will add the problem of ideological conflict caused by those who want to be in control.

    That being said, I cannot agree with Germany's option, which is to restrict gun ownership by citizens. Venezuela is another example of this failure. As I've stated before, this is not addressing the real source of the problem: which is the people using those guns and drugs.

    I'm not offering a solution. I'm saying that such restrictions lead to other, worse problems. For instance, a population which is unable to protect itself and must trust in government, military and police for "protection". I've stated this before... I'm not the only voice saying this.

    Ask yourselves what is the motive behind the legislation and who is pushing this. What do they stand to gain? I will say, categorically, that it is a given that power, control and money are the motivating factors. It is NOT altruism nor concern for the safety of citizens.

    Please do understand that I'm not trying to ignore or belittle the problems which result (death, uncivil conflict, wars). They are happening... Although perhaps not to the degree that the MSM would like you to perceive, since that does not sell advertising (money).

    You're entirely entitled (un-PC word, I know) to believe that the current situation is working. My belief is that we have "kicked the can down the road", put off dealing with the root causes. Palliatives only appear to work, they don't solve anything.

    Philosophy lesson over. Carry on.
    Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

    Comment


      #32
      20 out of 21 of the most recent mass shooters (not counting Islamists) were on, or had recently come off of, SSRI's. To suddenly stop taking a psychotropic like LexaPro is like dropping your brain off of a cliff. However, Psychiatrists and MDs who prescribe SSRI's are not required to report those who take them to the NICS database, so they can pass the "background" check and buy a gun without any problem. In fact, they use doctor-patient privacy privileges to avoid reporting them. They are probably prescribed too much and the doctors don't monitor their patients closely enough to detect aberrant behavior. And, SSRI's are a BILLIONS of dollars per year industry, so don't expect big Pharma to support physician accountability. It's going to take a law which holds doctors accountable for the actions of folks for whom they prescribed SSRI's, or massive class-action lawsuits against big pharma for pushing them the way Phillip-Morse pushed tobacco.
      "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
      – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

      Comment


        #33
        And now, on top of all the PC and paranoia, we have this political insanity.
        http://www.miamiherald.com/article201604224.html

        It seems that even using the square root symbol in solving a math problem is enough to trigger some student into calling the police, who then ignore the 1st Amendment as well as the 5th, against UNREASONABLE search. It is patently obvious that the only unreasonable folks were the "triggered" student and the police.

        They won't be happy until they shred the Constitution.
        "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
        – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
          And now, on top of all the PC and paranoia, we have this political insanity.
          http://www.miamiherald.com/article201604224.html

          It seems that even using the square root symbol in solving a math problem is enough to trigger some student into calling the police, who then ignore the 1st Amendment as well as the 5th, against UNREASONABLE search. It is patently obvious that the only unreasonable folks were the "triggered" student and the police.

          They won't be happy until they shred the Constitution.
          This does not speak highly about the students who could not handle the comments... It's a good thing this didn't happen when I was in school... There were comments made, back then, which were totally out of context and everyone just laughed because they understood. We even used rubber bands to shoot each other in class! That would mean jail time today.

          Snowflake is not the right term here, but I can't use the appropriate phrase on this forum...
          Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Bings View Post
            Until they (the US) competently impose the controls they do access have to and show whether or not they are enough, it remains difficult to argue for more. Plus there are other cultural issues, you must also factor apart from just lots of guns being around. For example the US, due to the existence of direct to consumer advertising, is an extremely prolific use of pharmaceutical drugs and in some cases has large proportions of entire towns languishing in opioid abuse. This is significant because wherever they are, just about every mass murderer has evidence of some sort of drug use. It's a very under discussed topic though.
            Yes. How difficult it is to make changes, depends on acceptance. And acceptance is largely driven by public opinion. And on one side there are many people fed up with the fear and the the death toll. And on the other side there are organisations trying to keep the status quo, and people who are misinformed about the extent of the tragedy. They probably don't know how a modern advanced country can run.

            Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View Post
              ianp5a and Bings;

              Do beware of relying on what the main stream media (MSM) is reporting. You both make valid points with respect to the results, ie. deaths from gun and drug influenced violence. I will add the problem of ideological conflict caused by those who want to be in control.

              That being said, I cannot agree with Germany's option, which is to restrict gun ownership by citizens. Venezuela is another example of this failure. As I've stated before, this is not addressing the real source of the problem: which is the people using those guns and drugs.

              I'm not offering a solution. I'm saying that such restrictions lead to other, worse problems. For instance, a population which is unable to protect itself and must trust in government, military and police for "protection". I've stated this before... I'm not the only voice saying this.

              Ask yourselves what is the motive behind the legislation and who is pushing this. What do they stand to gain? I will say, categorically, that it is a given that power, control and money are the motivating factors. It is NOT altruism nor concern for the safety of citizens.

              Please do understand that I'm not trying to ignore or belittle the problems which result (death, uncivil conflict, wars). They are happening... Although perhaps not to the degree that the MSM would like you to perceive, since that does not sell advertising (money).

              You're entirely entitled (un-PC word, I know) to believe that the current situation is working. My belief is that we have "kicked the can down the road", put off dealing with the root causes. Palliatives only appear to work, they don't solve anything.

              Philosophy lesson over. Carry on.
              Germany's solution is not to have a massive death toll like the US, at the same time as not fearing the government. Next election they're gone if they don't shape up. There is no gun lobby bribing them. So yes, the situation is different to the US and we can't expect to use the same solutions in the US. But what we can expect in the US, is first, a clear acknowledgement of the problem, then a plan to start doing something about it, to be able to reduce the number of deaths by a significant amount, by appropriate means. Tricky as it is, the US is smart enough to tread new ground, and really achieve something, and not sit on excuses and watch thousands more die.
              Yes and don't worry about the US main stream media here. It doesn't carry much weight outside the bubble. Too much brainwashing going on. As we can see here.
              Last edited by ianp5a; Feb 23, 2018, 05:17 PM.

              Comment


                #37
                ianp5a
                I find it curious that your perspective on the situation doesn't appear to include the problems in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, to name a few.

                The Main Stream Media is not an strictly American phenomena. Not that I would want to claim any ownership, but that the media and government, world wide, is engaged in these practices. Other countries may call it by another name, but it is dis-information and has been used by governments and other organizations since civilization arose. Different generations, different buzzwords to refer to the same process.

                Optimism is a good thing, so long as it doesn't become myopia or a willingness to sacrifice individual freedom for safety.

                Let's watch and see how this turns out...
                Last edited by TWPonKubuntu; Feb 23, 2018, 06:57 PM.
                Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by ianp5a View Post
                  ... There is no gun lobby bribing them. ...
                  Against the lobbying of the NRA you have the following 501c(3)'s and other NGO's, and corporations. The majority of their owners and/or management, and personal representatives have one thing in common: They are Far Left, mostly Democrats or the occasional RINO. Far Left because the Democrats have put the Communist Party of America out of business because they have stolen the CPA's platform lock, stock and barrel.

                  The following organizations have lent monetary, grassroots or some other type of direct support to anti-gun organizations. In many instances, these organizations lent their name in support of specific campaigns to pass anti-gun legislation such as the March 1995 HCI “Campaign to Protect Sane Gun Laws.” Many of these organizations were listed as “Campaign Partners,” for having pledged to fight any efforts to repeal the Brady Act and the Clinton “assault weapons” ban. All have officially endorsed anti-gun positions.

                  Those organizations that are not listed are the major news media, represented by the 95 individuals who attended Podesta's dinner party for them in April of 2015, to coordinate their coverage of Hillary's campaign. Since the election their hatred of Trump and Conservatives is a seething rage which they make no attempts to hide. The first 15 minutes of their daily even news broadcasts are pure Trump Trashing, just like ABC and David Muir is currently doing.
                  AARP
                  AFL-CIO
                  Ambulatory Pediatric Association
                  American Academy of Pediatrics
                  American Civil Liberties Union
                  American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
                  American Medical Women’s Association
                  American Medical Student Association
                  American Medical Association
                  American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
                  American Trauma Society
                  American Federation of Teachers
                  American Association of School Administrators
                  American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities
                  American Medical Association
                  American Bar Association
                  American Counseling Association
                  American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
                  American Academy of Pediatrics
                  American Association for World Health
                  American Ethical Union
                  American Nurses Association
                  American Association of Neurological Surgeons
                  American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences
                  American Firearms Association
                  American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
                  American Jewish Committee
                  American Trauma Society
                  American Psychological Association
                  American Jewish Congress
                  American Public Health Association
                  Americans for Democratic Action
                  Anti-Defamation League
                  Black Mental Health Alliance
                  B’nai B’rith
                  Central Conference of American Rabbis
                  Children’s Defense Fund
                  Church of the Brethren
                  Coalition for Peace Action
                  Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
                  College Democrats of America
                  Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace
                  Common Cause
                  Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
                  Congress of Neurological Surgeons
                  Consumer Federation of America
                  Council of the Great City Schools
                  Council of Chief State School Officers
                  Dehere Foundation
                  Disarm Educational Fund
                  Environmental Action Foundation
                  Episcopal Church-Washington Office
                  Florence and John Shumann Foundation
                  Friends Committee on National Legislation
                  General Federation of Women’s Clubs
                  George Gund Fun
                  Gray Panthers
                  H.M. Strong Foundation
                  Hadassah
                  Harris Foundation
                  Hechinger Foundation
                  Interfaith Neighbors
                  Int’l Ladies’ Garment Workers’ Union
                  Int’l Association of Educators for World Peace
                  Jewish Labor Committee
                  Joyce Foundation
                  Lauder Foundation
                  Lawrence Foundation
                  League of Women Voters of the United States*
                  Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
                  Manhattan Project II
                  Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
                  National Safe Kids Campaign
                  National Association of Police Organizations
                  National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
                  National Black Nurses’ Association
                  National Association of Chain Drug Stores
                  National Network for Youth
                  National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations
                  National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
                  National Association of School Psychologists
                  National Association of Counties*
                  National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
                  National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers
                  National Education Association
                  National Association of Elementary School Principals*
                  National Association of Public Hospitals
                  National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
                  National Association of Secondary School Principals
                  National Association of Social Workers
                  National Association of Children’s Hospitals and Related Institutions
                  National Association of School Psychologists
                  National Council of La Raza
                  National Center to Rehabilitate Violent Youth
                  National Commission for Economic Conversion & Disarmament
                  National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA
                  National Council of Negro Women
                  National Association of Community Health Centers
                  National People’s Action
                  National Education Association*
                  National League of Cities
                  National Council on Family Relations
                  National Council of Jewish Women
                  National Organization for Women
                  National Political Congress of Black Women
                  National Parks and Conservation Association
                  National Peace Foundation
                  National Urban League, Inc.
                  National Parent, Teachers Association*
                  National Urban Coalition
                  National SAFE KIDS Campaign
                  National Organization on Disability
                  National Spinal Cord Injury Association
                  NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
                  Ortenberg Foundation
                  Peace Action
                  People for the American Way
                  Physicians for Social Responsibility
                  Police Foundation
                  Project on Demilitarization and Democracy
                  Public Citizen
                  SaferWorld
                  Society of Critical Care Medicine
                  Southern Christian Leadership Conference
                  The Council of the Great City Schools
                  The Synergetic Society
                  20/20 Vision
                  U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
                  Union of American Hebrew Congregations
                  Unitarian Universalist Association
                  United States Catholic Conference
                  United Methodist Church, General Board & Church Society
                  United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society*
                  United States Conference of Mayors
                  War and Peace Foundation
                  Women Strike for Peace
                  Women’s National Democratic Club
                  Women’s Action for New Directions (WAND)
                  Women’s Int’l League for Peace and Freedom
                  World Spiritual Assembly, Inc.
                  YWCA of the U.S.A.

                  *The national organization only endorses federal legislation.


                  ANTI-GUN CORPORATIONS/CORPORATE HEADS

                  The following listing includes the most prominent national corporations that have lent their corporate support to gun control initiatives or taken position supporting gun control.

                  A & M Records
                  Al Cafaro, Chrm. & CEO
                  595 Madison Avenue
                  New York, NY 10022
                  (212) 826-0477
                  www.amrecords.com
                  Record Production, Entertainment

                  American Century Companies
                  James E. Stowers, CEO
                  4500 Main St., 4th Floor
                  Kansas City, MO 64111
                  (816) 531-5575
                  www.americancentury.com
                  Mutual Fund & Stock Investment Company on NYSE

                  American Multi Cinemas Entertainment, Inc.
                  Stanley H. Durwood, Co-Chairman, CEO Peter C. Brown, President, CFO
                  106 West 14th Street, #1700
                  Kansas City, MO 64141
                  (816) 221-4000
                  www.amctheaters.com
                  Movie Theater Company

                  Argosy Casino
                  H. Steven Norton, President, CEO
                  777 N.W. Argosy Parkway
                  Riverside, MO 64150
                  (816) 746-7711
                  www.argosycasinos.com/
                  Gambling Casino Company

                  Ben & Jerry’s Homemade, Inc.
                  Bennett R. Cohen Chrm. & CEO
                  Rte. 100, Box 240
                  Waterbury, VT 05676
                  (802) 244-5641
                  www.benjerry.com
                  Ice cream and frozen yogurt

                  BJC Health Systems
                  Fred L. Brown, President & CEO
                  4444 Forest Park Ave.
                  St. Louis, MO 63108
                  (314) 747-9322
                  www.bjc.org/
                  Healthcare Company

                  Blue Cross Blue Shield – Kansas City
                  John P. Mascotte, President
                  P.O. Box 419169
                  Kansas City, MO 64141
                  (816) 395-2222
                  Healthcare Company

                  Brooks Investments-Robert Brooks
                  Robert Brooks
                  45 Chesterfield Lakes Road
                  Chesterfield, MO 63005
                  Investment Company

                  Carter Hawley Hale Stores, Inc.
                  Philip M. Hawley, Chrm. & CEO
                  444 South Flower Street
                  Los Angeles, CA 90071
                  (213) 620-0150
                  Retail clothing and accessories stores

                  Crown Central Petroleum Corp.
                  Henry A. Rosenberg, Jr.
                  One North Central Street Box 1168
                  Baltimore, MD 21203
                  (301) 539-7400
                  Refiners and marketers of petroleum products, convenience stores

                  Development Specialists – Chicago
                  70 W. Madison Street, #2300
                  Chicago, IL 60602
                  (312) 263-4141

                  Earthgrains – St. Louis
                  8400 Maryland Ave.
                  St. Louis, MO 63105
                  (314) 259-7000
                  www.ironkids.com/Pages/Earthgrains.html
                  National Bread Company

                  General American – St. Louis
                  Richard A. Liddy, CEO
                  P.O. Box 396
                  St. Louis, MO 63166
                  (314) 843-8700
                  www.genam.com
                  Life Insurance

                  Hallmark Cards
                  Irvine O. Hockaday, President & CEO
                  P.O. Box 418307
                  Kansas City, MO 64141
                  (816) 274-5111
                  www.hallmark.com
                  Greeting Card Company

                  Health Midwest
                  2316 East Meyer Boulevard
                  Kansas City, MO 64132
                  (816) 751-3000
                  www.healthmidwest.org
                  National Healthcare Company

                  ICN Biomedicals
                  Adam Jerney, Chrm. & CEO
                  3300 Hyland Avenue
                  Costa Mesa, CA 92626
                  (714) 545-0113
                  www.icnbiomed.com
                  Pharmaceutical products

                  James B. Nutter Co. – Kansas City
                  James B. Nutter
                  4153 Broadway
                  Kansas City, MO 64111
                  (816) 531-2345
                  Investment Banker

                  Kansas City Chiefs
                  One Arrowhead Drive
                  Kansas City, MO 64129
                  (816) 924-9300
                  www.kcchiefs.com
                  Pro Football Team

                  Kansas City Royals
                  David Glass, CEO
                  P.O. Box 419969
                  Kansas City, MO 64141
                  (816) 921-8000
                  www.kcroyals.com
                  Pro Baseball Team

                  Kenneth Cole
                  152 W. 57th Street
                  New York, NY 10019
                  (800) 536-2653
                  www.kennethcole.com
                  Clothing retailer

                  Lamar Advertising Company
                  Lamar Outdoor Advertising
                  5551 Corporate Boulevard, Suite 2-A
                  Baton Rouge, LA 70808
                  P. O. Box 66338
                  Baton Rouge, LA 70896
                  (225) 926-1000
                  Fax (225) 926-1005
                  www.lamar.com

                  Levi Strauss & Co.
                  Robert D. Haas, Chairman
                  Philip Marineau, CEO
                  Peter A. Jacobi, President and COO
                  1155 Battery St.
                  San Francisco, CA 94111
                  (415) 501-6000
                  FAX (415) 501-3939
                  www.levistrauss.com
                  Clothing

                  Mallinckrodt, Inc. – St. Louis
                  C. Ray Holman, President & CEO
                  675 McDonnell Blvd, Box 5840
                  St. Louis, MO 63134
                  (314) 654-2000
                  www.mallinckrodt.com
                  Clothing Starch Company

                  Michael Douglas Foundation
                  3550 Wilshire
                  Los Angele, CA 90010

                  MNC Financial, Inc.
                  Ten Light Street Box 987
                  Baltimore, MD 21203
                  (301) 244-5000
                  Banking, financial services

                  Sara Lee Corporation
                  Sara Lee Foundation
                  Three First National Plaza
                  Chicago, IL 60602-4260
                  Phone: 312-726-2600
                  www.saralee.com
                  Fax: 312-726-3712

                  Silver Dollar City
                  Peter Herschend
                  One Corporate Drive
                  Branson, MO 65616
                  800 475-9370
                  www.silverdollarcity.com
                  Amusement Parks

                  Site Oil Company – St. Louis
                  Alvin J. Siteman, President
                  50 S. Bemiston
                  St. Louis, MO 63105
                  (314) 725-4321
                  Oil Company

                  Southland Corporation
                  Masatoshi Ito, Chrm.
                  2711 North Haskell Avenue
                  Dallas, TX 75221
                  www.7-eleven.com
                  Convenience stores

                  Southwestern Bell Telephone- St. Louis
                  One Bell Center
                  St. Louis, MO 63101
                  (314) 235-9800
                  www.swbell.com
                  Telecommunications Firm

                  Sport & Health, Inc.
                  Don Konz, CEO
                  1800 Old Meadow Rd.
                  McLean, Virginia 22102
                  (703) 556-6556
                  www.sportandhealth.com
                  Health clubs and fitness centers

                  Sprint Corp PAC
                  William T. Esrey, Chrm., Pres. & CEO 2330 Shawnee Mission Parkway
                  Westwood, KS 66205
                  913 624-3000
                  www.sprint.com
                  Telecommunicaitons Firm

                  SSM Health System – St. Louis
                  477 N. Lindbergh
                  St. Louis, MO 63141
                  (314) 994-7800
                  Healthcare Company

                  St. Louis Rams
                  One Rams Way
                  Earth City, MO 63045
                  (314) 982-7267
                  www.stlouisrams.com
                  Pro Football Team

                  St. Louis University
                  Rev. Lawrence Biondi, President
                  221 N. Grand Blvd.
                  St. Louis, MO 63103
                  (314) 977-2222
                  www.slu.edu
                  Private Catholic University

                  Stoneyfield Farms Yogurt
                  Mr. Gary Hirshberg, CEO
                  10 Burton Drive
                  Londonderry, NH 03053
                  (603) 437-7594
                  Yogurt

                  Sverdrup Corp.
                  Richard E. Beumer,
                  Chairman & CEO
                  13723 Riverport Drive
                  Maryland Heights, MO 63043
                  (314) 436-7600
                  www.sverdrup.com
                  Engineering Firm

                  Time Warner Inc.
                  Gerald M. Levin, Chrm. & CEO
                  75 Rockefeller Plaza
                  New York, NY 10019
                  (212) 364-8300
                  www.pathfinder.com/corp/
                  Publishing, film and music recordings

                  TMP Worldwide/Monster.Com
                  Andrew McKelvey, CEO
                  1633 Broadway, 33rd Fl.
                  New York, NY 10019
                  Phone: 212-977-4200
                  Fax: 212-956-2142
                  www.tmpw.com
                  www.monster.com
                  online employment service

                  Unity Health – St. Louis
                  1650 Des Peres Road #301
                  St. Louis, MO 63131
                  (314) 909-3300
                  www.smhs.com/unityheath.html
                  Healthcare Company

                  Working Assets
                  Peter Barnes, Founder
                  701 Montgomery Street
                  San Francisco, California 94111
                  (415) 788-0777
                  www.workingassets.com
                  ANTI-GUN PUBLICATION AND MEDIA OUTLETS

                  The following publications and media outlets have assisted in the attack on Second Amendment rights. The editorial policies of some of the media sources listed portray firearms in a negative manner in an attempt to generate public support for restrictions on firearms ownership. Others have refused some or all of NRA’s advertisements.
                  Capital Cities/ABC
                  Television Network
                  77 W. 66th Street
                  New York, NY 10023-6298
                  (212) 456-7777

                  Bell Atlantic-D.C.
                  2055 L Street, N.W.
                  Washington, D.C. 20036
                  (202) 392-9900

                  Blue Chip Stamps
                  15801 S. Eastern Avenue
                  Los Angeles, CA 90040
                  (213) 720-4600

                  The Christian Publishing Society
                  The Christian Science Monitor
                  One Norway Street
                  Boston, MA 02115
                  (508) 586-6200

                  Columbia Broadcasting Service
                  CBS Television Network
                  51 W. 52nd Street
                  New York, NY 10019
                  (212) 975-4321

                  Corporation For Public Broadcasting/ PBS Television
                  1320 Braddock Place
                  Alexandria, VA 22314-1698
                  (703) 739-5000
                  (703) 739-0775 – Fax

                  Cox Newspapers
                  Atlanta Journal-Constitution
                  Credibank Towers, Suite 400
                  2800 Biscayne Blvd.
                  Miami, FL 33137
                  (305) 576-7678

                  Gannett News Service
                  USA Today
                  1000 Wilson Blvd.
                  Arlington, VA 22229
                  (703) 276-5806

                  Johnson Publishing Company, Inc.
                  Ebony Magazine
                  820 S. Michigan avenue
                  Chicago, IL 60605-2190
                  (312) 322-9250

                  Knight-Ridder Newspapers
                  Detroit Free-Press
                  321 W. LaFayette Blvd.
                  Detroit, MI 48231
                  (313) 222-6400

                  Miami Herald
                  One Herald Plaza
                  Miami, FL 33132-1683
                  (305) 350-2111

                  Los Angeles Times
                  Times Mirror Square
                  Los Angeles, California 90053
                  (213) 237-4511
                  (213) 237-7679 – Fax

                  McCall’s Magazine
                  110 Fifth Avenue
                  New York, NY 10017-5603
                  (212) 463-1000

                  Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine
                  Emap PLC
                  6420 Wilshire Blvd., Floor 17
                  Los Angeles, California 90048
                  (323) 782-2000

                  National Broadcasting Company
                  NBC Television Network
                  30 Rockefeller Plaza
                  New York, NY 10112
                  (212) 664-4444

                  Newsweek, Inc.
                  Newsweek Magazine
                  444 Madison Avenue
                  New York, NY 10022-6999
                  (212) 350-4000

                  Rolling Stone Magazine
                  Jann Wenner, Chrm. & CEO
                  745 5th, Avenue
                  New York, NY 10151
                  (212) 758-3800

                  The New York Times Corporation
                  The New York Times
                  229 W. 43rd Street
                  New York, NY 10036
                  (212) 556-1234

                  Time Magazine
                  Time & Life Building
                  Rockefeller Center
                  New York, NY 10020
                  (212) 522-1212

                  Times-Mirror Corporation
                  The Los Angeles Times
                  Times Mirror Square
                  Los Angeles, CA 90053
                  (213) 237-3000

                  The Baltimore Sun
                  501 N. Calvert Street
                  Baltimore, MD 21278
                  (301) 332-6300

                  The Tribune Company
                  Chicago Tribune
                  435 N. Michigan Avenue
                  Chicago, IL 60611
                  (312) 227-3000

                  Washington Post
                  1150 15th Street, N.W.
                  Washington, D.C. 20071
                  (202) 334-6000
                  ANTI-GUN INDIVIDUALS & CELEBRITIES

                  The following celebrities and national figures have lent their name and notoriety to anti-gun causes, speaking out for anti-gun legislation and providing a voice for anti-gun organizations. You can add to this anyone who appeared on the “Demand a Plan” anti-gun video telling everyone to demand gun control, most of them appear to be listed at the bottom. Also add CANADIAN Jim Carrey for stupid his anti-gun video.

                  Anti-Gun-Celebrities

                  Jessica Alba – Actor
                  Krista Allen – Actor
                  Suzy Amis – Actor
                  Louis Anderson – Comedian
                  Richard Dean Anderson – Actor
                  Maya Angelou – Poet
                  David Arquette – Actor
                  Ed Asner – Actor
                  Alec Baldwin – Actor
                  Bob Barker – TV Personality
                  Carol Bayer Sager – Composer
                  Drew Barrymore – Actor
                  Kevin Bacon – Actor
                  Lauren Bacall – Actor*
                  Sarah Ban Breathnach – Writer
                  William Baldwin – Actor
                  Candice Bergen – Actor
                  Richard Belzer – Actor
                  Tony Bennett – Singer
                  Beyonce – Singer
                  Jon Bon Jovi – Singer
                  Peter Bogdonovich – Director
                  Peter Bonerz – Actor
                  Albert Brooks – Actor
                  Beau Bridges – Actor
                  Benjamin Bratt – Actor
                  Bonnie Bruckheimer – Movie Producer
                  Christie Brinkley – Model
                  Dr. Joyce Brothers – Psychologist/Author
                  James Brolin – Actor
                  James Brooks – TV Producer
                  Mel Brooks – Actor/Director
                  Betty Buckley – Actor
                  Ellen Burstyn – Actor
                  Steve Buscemi – Actor
                  David Canary – Actor
                  Kate Capshaw – Actor
                  Kim Cattrall – Actor
                  Josh Charles – Actor
                  Robert Chartloff – Producer
                  Stockard Channing – Actor
                  Terri Clark – Singer
                  George Clooney – Actor
                  Jennifer Connelly – Actor
                  Judy Collins – Singer
                  Kevin Costner – Actor
                  Sean Connery – Actor
                  Sheryl Crow – Singer
                  Billy Crystal – Actor
                  Julie Cypher – Director
                  Arlene Dahl – Actor
                  Clive Davis – Writer
                  Linda Dano – Actor
                  Matt Damon – Actor
                  Pam Dawber – Actor
                  Patrika Darbo – Actor
                  Stuart Damon – Actor
                  Ellen Degeneres – Actor
                  Gavin de Becker – Writer
                  Rebecca DeMornay – Actor
                  Danny DeVito – Actor
                  Michael Douglas – Actor
                  Phil Donahue – Talk Show Host
                  Richard Donner – Director
                  Fran Drescher – Actor
                  Richard Dreyfus – Actor
                  David Duchovny – Actor
                  Sandy Duncan – Actor
                  Christine Ebersole – Actor
                  Kenneth “Babyface” Edmonds – Singer
                  Missy Elliott – Singer
                  Gloria Estefan – Singer
                  Melissa Etheridge – Singer
                  Mia Farrow – Actor
                  Mike Farrell – Actor
                  Carrie Fisher – Actor
                  Sally Field – Actor
                  Doug Flutie – NFL player
                  Fannie Flagg – Actor
                  Jane Fonda – Actor
                  Jodie Foster – Actor
                  Rick Fox – NBA Player
                  Andy Garcia – Actor
                  Art Garfunkel – Singer
                  Geraldo – TV personality
                  Richard Gere – Actor
                  Kathie Lee Gifford – TV personality
                  Paul Glaser – TV director
                  Brad Gooch – Writer
                  Elliott Gould – Actor
                  Louis Gossett, Jr. – Actor
                  Michael Gross – Actor
                  Nancy Lee Grahn – Actor
                  Bryant Gumbel – TV Personality
                  Deidra Hall – Actor
                  Ethan Hawke – Actor
                  Mariette Hartley – Actor
                  Mark Harmon – Actor
                  Anne Heche – Actor
                  Howard Hesseman – Actor
                  Marilu Henner – Actor
                  Dustin Hoffman – Actor
                  Hal Holbrook – Actor*
                  Helen Hunt – Actor
                  Francesca James – TV Producer
                  Norman Jewison – Director
                  Lainie Kazan – Actor
                  Richard Karn – Actor
                  Jeffrey Katzenberg – Producer
                  Barry Kemp – TV Producer
                  David E. Kelley – TV Producer
                  Diane Keaton – Actor
                  Margaret Kemp – Interior Designer
                  Chaka Khan – Singer

                  Stephen King – Author (Added by 2ACheck)
                  Kevin Kline – Actor
                  Michael E. Knight – Actor
                  Jonathan Kozol – Writer
                  Lenny Kravits – Singer
                  Lisa Kudrow – Actor
                  Wally Kurth – Actor
                  Christine Lahti – Actor
                  k.d. lang – Singer
                  Ricki Lake – TV personality
                  Denis Leary – Actor
                  John Leguizamo – Actor
                  Norman Lear – TV Producer
                  Spike Lee – Director
                  Hal Linden – Actor
                  Tara Lipinski – Former Olympian
                  Keyshawn Johnson – NFL player
                  Rob Lowe – Actor
                  Amanda Marshall – Singer
                  Barry Manilow – Singer
                  Camryn Manheim – Actor
                  Howie Mandel – Actor
                  Kyle MacLachlan – Actor
                  Madonna – Singer
                  Marla Maples – Actor
                  Marsha Mason – Actor*
                  Mase – Singer
                  Penny Marshall – Director
                  Prema Mathai-Davis – YWCA Official
                  John McDaniel – Musician
                  John McEnroe – Athlete
                  Brian McKnight – Musician
                  Natalie Merchant – Singer
                  Bette Midler – Singer
                  Mary Tyler Moore – Actor
                  Michael Moore – Film Maker
                  Mike Myers – Actor
                  Kathy Najimy – Actor
                  Jack Nicholson – Actor
                  Leonard Nimoy – Actor
                  Mike Nichols – Director
                  Stephen Nichols – Actor
                  Rosie O’Donnell – Actor/Talk Show Host
                  Jennifer O’Neill – Actor
                  Julia Ormond – Actor
                  Jane Pauley – TV Personality
                  Sarah Jessica Parker – Actor
                  Mandy Patinkin – Actor
                  Richard North Patterson – Writer
                  Rhea Perlman – Actor
                  Michelle Pfieffer – Actor
                  Aidan Quinn – Actor
                  Colin Quinn – Actor
                  Dennis Quaid – Actor
                  Elizabeth Bracco Quinn – Actor
                  Bonnie Raitt – Singer
                  Debbie Reynolds – Actor
                  Mary Lou Retton – Former Olympian
                  Paul Reiser – Actor
                  Peter Reckell – Actor
                  Rob Reiner – Actor/Director
                  Robert Redford – Actor/Director
                  Anne Rice – Writer
                  Cathy Rigby – Actor
                  Julia Roberts – Actor
                  Marc Rosen – TV Producer
                  Tim Robbins – Actor
                  Tim Roth – Actor
                  Renee Russo – Actor
                  Robin Ruzan – Wife of Mike Myers
                  Meg Ryan – Actor
                  Susan Sarandon – Actor
                  Jerry Seinfeld – Actor
                  Kyra Sedgwick – Actor
                  Martin Sheen – Actor
                  Russell Simmons – Record Producer
                  Neil Simon – Playwright*
                  Louise Sorel – Actor
                  Mira Sorvino – Actor
                  Rena Sofer – Actor
                  Britney Spears – Singer
                  Bruce Springsteen – Singer
                  Kevin Spirtas – Actor
                  Barbra Streisand – Singer
                  David Steinberg – Director
                  Sylvester Stallone – Actor
                  Harry Dean Stanton – Actor
                  Meryl Streep – Actor
                  Patrick Stewart – Actor
                  Sharon Stone – Actor
                  Sting – Singer
                  Trudie Styler – Actor
                  Jonathan Taylor Thomas – Actor
                  The Temptations – Pop Group
                  Vinny Testaverde – NFL player
                  Marlo Thomas – Actor*
                  Uma Thurman – Actor
                  Steve Tisch – Producer
                  Mike Torrez – Former Baseball player
                  Shania Twain – Singer
                  Dick Van Dyke – Actoe
                  Eli Wallach – Actor*
                  Harvey Weinstein – Producer
                  Jann Wenner – Publisher
                  Sigourney Weaver – Actor
                  Victor Webster – Actor
                  Andy Williams – Singer*
                  Kelli Williams – Actor
                  Henry Winkler – Actor
                  Oprah Winfrey – Entertainer
                  Rita Wilson – Actor
                  Vanessa Williams – Singer
                  Herman Wouk – Author
                  Joanne Woodward – Actor*
                  Peter Yarrow – Singer
                  Catherine Zeta-Jones – Actor
                  Ahmet Zappa -Actor
                  Diva Zappa -Actor
                  Dweezil Zappa – Musician
                  Gail Zappa -
                  Moon Zappa -Actor
                  Jennifer Aniston – Actor
                  Elizabeth Banks – Actor
                  Jason Bateman – Actor
                  Kristen Bell—Actor
                  Steve Carrell – Actor
                  Courtney Cox – Actor
                  Ellen DeGeneres – Actor
                  Zooey Deschanel – Actor
                  Cameron Diaz – Actor
                  Peter Dinklage – Actor
                  Will Ferrell – Actor
                  Jamie Fox – Actor
                  Jennifer Garner – Actor
                  Selena Gomez – Actor
                  Carla Gugino – Actor
                  Jon Hamm – Actor
                  Kate Hudson – Actor
                  John Legend – Actor
                  Julia Louis-Dreyfus – Actor
                  Debra Messing – Actor
                  Julianne Moore – Actor
                  Julianne Moore – Actor
                  Conan O’Brien – Actor
                  Gwyneth Paltrow – Actor
                  Busy Phillips – Actor
                  Amy Poller – Actor
                  Jeremy Renner – Actor
                  Chris Rock – Actor
                  Paul Rudd – Actor
                  Mark Ruffalo – Actor
                  Brooke Shields – Actor
                  Sarah Silverman – Actor
                  John Slattery – Actor
                  Michelle Williams – Actor
                  Reese Witherspoon – Actor

                  * Denotes membership on Brady Campaign’s National Committee


                  Anti-Gun-National-Figures

                  Joel J. Alpert M.D. – Pediatrician
                  Robert Bernstein Ph.D – Pediatrician
                  Robert E. Brennan – Financier
                  Bishop Edmond Browning – Espiscopal Leader
                  James E. Carter – Former President
                  Marion Wright Edelman – Director, Childrens Defense Fund
                  Michael Eisner, Former Chairman and CEO The Walt Disney Company
                  Amitai Etzioni – Teacher
                  Tom Freston – MTV President
                  Dr. Lorraine E. Hale – Social Worker
                  Della M. Hughes – Activist
                  Ed Koch – Former Politician
                  C. Everett Koop – Former Surgeon General
                  Rev. Wallace Ryan Kuroiwa – Clergyman
                  Gerald M. Levin – Chairman, Time Warner
                  Davis S. Liederman – Ex. Dir. Child Welfare League
                  Paul Rabbi Menitaff – Clergyman
                  Abner Mikva – Former Judge
                  Richard Parsons – Pres. Time Warner
                  Steven Rockefeller – Financier
                  Ellen Y. Rosenberg – Activist
                  Rabbi David Saperstein – Clergyman
                  Herb Scannell – Pres. Nickelodeon
                  Vincent Schiraldi – Dir. Justice Policy Institute
                  Lyle Elmer Strom – Federal Judge
                  Joe Volk – Clergyman
                  Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie – Clergyman

                  Anti-Gun-Journalists

                  Steve Benson – Cartoonist
                  Tony Auth – Cartoonist
                  Jim Borgman – Cartoonist
                  Jimmy Breslin – Columnist
                  Stuart Carlson – Cartoonist
                  Marie Cocco – Columnist
                  E.J. Dionne Jr. – Columnist
                  Bonnie Erbe – Columnist
                  Tom Fiedler – Columnist
                  Michael Gartner – Columnist
                  Mark Genrich – Columnist
                  James Glassman – Editor
                  Bob Herbert – Columnist
                  Bill Johnson – Columnist
                  Donald Kaul – Columnist
                  Mike Lane – Cartoonist
                  Leonard Larson – Columnist
                  Mike Luckovich – Cartoonist
                  Jimmy Margulies – Cartoonist
                  Deborah Mathis – Columnist
                  Colman McCarthy – Columnist
                  Jim Morin – Cartoonist
                  Tom Oliphant- Columnist
                  Mike Peters – Cartoonist
                  Robert Reno – Columnist
                  Frank Rich – Columnist
                  Cindy Richards – Columnist
                  Kevin Siers- Cartoonist
                  Ed Stein – Cartoonist
                  Tom Teepen – Editor
                  Tim Toles – Cartoonist
                  Garry Trudeau – Cartoonist
                  Cynthia Tucker – Columnist
                  Steve Twomey – Columnist
                  Steve Villano – Columnist
                  Adrienne Washington – Columnist
                  Don Wright – Cartoonist
                  Last edited by GreyGeek; Feb 23, 2018, 05:40 PM.
                  "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                  – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    He was referring to Germany, not the U.S.
                    Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                    Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by TWPonKubuntu View Post
                      ianp5a
                      I find it curious that your perspective on the situation doesn't appear to include the problems in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, to name a few.

                      The Main Stream Media is not an strictly American phenomena. Not that I would want to claim any ownership, but that the media and government, world wide, is engaged in these practices. Other countries may call it by another name, but it is dis-information and has been used by governments and other organizations since civilization arose. Different generations, different buzzwords to refer to the same process.

                      Optimism is a good thing, so long as it doesn't become myopia or a willingness to sacrifice individual freedom for safety.

                      Let's watch and see how this turns out...
                      I'm looking at the problem in the US, where some there seem to think it's not a huge problem. Who perhaps want to distract people, or compare the US with failing or troubled countries. And not understanding that the US gun problem is very unusual among countries of similar wealth and standing.

                      We also have a diversified range of media from different European countries. You soon know if one is dumbing down the news too much when you watch coverage from another country. The news organisations know that.
                      In the US, Trump has a deliberate campaign to discredit the media, to distract from anything unpopular that he does. It's one of his strategies. The result is now that many in the US distrust the media regardless of the validity of the content.
                      Last edited by ianp5a; Feb 24, 2018, 05:29 AM.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        “The result is now that many in the US distrust the media regardless of the validity of the content.”

                        And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Trust, but verify. It takes some effort, but each person should validate as true or false anything told to them by the media or the government.
                        Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                        Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                        "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Do beware of relying on what the main stream media (MSM) is reporting.
                          As I am not in the country, I don't really have that much exposure to US main stream media. British MSM is pretty much universally in support of gun control but then that is in line with British opinion on the whole. Gun control here was introduced here and the gradual disarming of UK populace in the twentieth century was in the main as a response to the threat of communism. It was more a valid strategy then. Today, the military of most countries have technology that can vastly overpower even the largest of civilian revolt. The lucky ones of us have well functioning democracies, that includes the US. The ability of a people to enact a change of leaders peacefully every so often is more useful than any weapon and said powerful miltaries in the main defend that.

                          I don't think comparing countries legislation is really helpful to the debate. The question is will doing X achieve Y for the country in particular, not has it worked or not in another country. Looking at the statistics, it seems that even if the US adopted there would still be a much higher level of murders. There needs to be more understanding of why people in the US are so much more murderous than those in other rich western countries. Access to guns can not alone explain why you're nearly 3 times more likely to be murdered in the US than Canada.

                          At the end of the day, the US is a democracy and if the majority of people want access to guns then this will need to be worked around regardless of subjective opinion.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Snowhog View Post
                            “The result is now that many in the US distrust the media regardless of the validity of the content.”

                            And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Trust, but verify. It takes some effort, but each person should validate as true or false anything told to them by the media or the government.
                            Which is fine. But when a campaign to undermine the valid trust that has been built up over many years, along with organised social media misinformation is used to dampen and muddy public opposition to government or NSA activities, people need to find trustworthy information from somewhere.

                            Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by ianp5a View Post
                              ... But when a campaign to undermine the valid trust that has been built up over many years, along with organised social media misinformation is used to dampen and muddy public opposition to government or NSA activities, people need to find trustworthy information from somewhere.
                              ...
                              This discussion has been productive, thank you all.

                              With respect to the degree of trust in media, I too see the decline. A question becomes, who is behind the media behavior which is making them untrustworthy? We've always had "fringe" media which was frequently seen as a joke, not to be believed, but now the "main" stream media is getting the derision. I must say, In My Opinion, that they are deserving of the derision, based on what they are pushing at the public. The phrase "fake news" is accurate.

                              So who is behind this trend? I see so much politics, from all "sides" and parties, that it takes a lot of time and effort to filter and analyze what might be truth from what might be "fake" (read that as "propaganda" for those who know history).

                              When trust is weak, we can expect that many factions will arise (I'm RIGHT. No, I'm RIGHT. Don't Believe THEIR Lies!)... Sound familiar? I see it everyday in the news feeds (online). I don't follow or participate in social media (SM), so my view is only what is reflected from SM posts in other media, but it sounds (second hand opinion) like chaos and disorganized name calling is the rule of the day. SM is not a trustworthy news source. It (IMO) is the technological soap box for anyone who wants a following...

                              As Showhog said, above:

                              ...
                              And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Trust, but verify. It takes some effort, but each person should validate as true or false anything told to them by the media or the government.
                              ian5pa, you are correct in this statement:
                              ...
                              people need to find trustworthy information from somewhere.
                              The only trustworthy barometer for trust lies between the ears of each individual. I see so few sources of truth that I do, sometimes, feel a sense of hopelessness and distrust toward almost all media...

                              It's a jungle out there...

                              [TWP steps off the soapbox]
                              Kubuntu 24.04 64bit under Kernel 6.10.2, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. All Bow To The Great Google... cough, hack, gasp.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Personally I think their is a larger underlying problem at play hear than just to many guns laying around ,,,lets face it if someone truly wants to hurt/kill a bunch of people their are other ways than a gun and if their are no guns then the one that wants to do the hurting/killing will find a way .

                                the question (in my mind) is WHY is their an increasing trend it seams to WANT to do this .

                                this is the thing ,,,,,their seems to be an increasing number of people that actually want to hurt others to the point that they will actually do it ,,,this is the problem and this is what needs all the attention.

                                why dose jony whosit want to go in his own school (or anywhere else)and kill indiscriminate others ,,,and why dose he not seem to have the moral checks in his conscience to make him NOT want to hurt others he may not even know that well .

                                VINNY
                                i7 4core HT 8MB L3 2.9GHz
                                16GB RAM
                                Nvidia GTX 860M 4GB RAM 1152 cuda cores

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