Kubuntu is not suitable as productive OS and has a major issue.

[claydoh]

It all boils down to Kubuntu being unable to upgrade us to a newer Plasma version (due to not being able to upgrade Qt as well, as this would break a lot of non-kde stuff), which is keeping Kubuntu users from updating, even via PPAs to a working version.

I am also guessing that, as the Plasma version (Including Discover) is an LTS, that the KDE devs have been unable to fix this. I do see the next LTs Plasma (5.12.7) is due to be released on the 25.

[claydoh]

So, ask in the right place, get an answer. Go figure

As the next Plasma LTS point release does NOT need a new Qt, it should easily make it to a PPA near you soon. Then, probably into the regular archives after it has had some usage, just like 5.12.6 did.

[woodsmoke]

A )
Ill just comment that the very few times that I have had Discover lock up the computer was when there were a LOT of updates because I had not used the OS, a different hard drive, in quite a while.

In fact, it happened to my "television" OS, my tweak of KDE Neon, Kparadigmshift, which I had not used for quite a while. It was something like dunno, 300 updates and Discover did, indeed, lockup the OS. However, when I did a hard restart, Discover then continued the updates and all was well.

But, it WOULD be a scary thing for someone NEW to Kubuntu to have it happen on a fresh install.

B)
I'll ask a question though...I would assume, and we all know what that makes me... I would assume that the .iso which was downloaded was the latest updated version, or... is the .iso the one an only one that is put up for download and then Discover take the brunt of the work.

I would assume, that yes the upload is fixed and that Disscover then takes over.

C)
If Discover can't handle the job then maybe...maybe... there should be maybe "updated" versions of the .iso put up at various times so that Discover won't have to INITIALLY have to deal with hundreds of packages to be downloaded.

HOWEVER,

D)
if the post is a valid post, is it possible that the situation might have been one of the hardware of the user? or possibly the bandwidth of the user's access?

woodsmok

[sithlord48]

Is there a ppa for newer kde releases for bionic yet? Discover works just fine on neon and on arch . So I would guess the issue comes from (as usually with kubuntu ) Either the version of Qt that ubuntu decided to ship and what version of KDESC is shipped with kubuntu .

I'm on KDE frameworks 5.50 and qt 5.11.2

[claydoh]

Is there a ppa for newer kde releases for bionic yet? Discover works just fine on neon and on arch . So I would guess the issue comes from (as usually with kubuntu ) Either the version of Qt that ubuntu decided to ship and what version of KDESC is shipped with kubuntu .

I'm on KDE frameworks 5.50 and qt 5.11.2

No. Any plasma version past 5.12 requires an updated Qt, which Kubuntu cannot do on their own as it would break a bunch of non-KDE stuff, and iirc Ubuntu is being slow to move to do this.

Neon make their own Qt updates.

As I noted in my previous post, the next Plasma LTS release is just around the corner, and that is compatible with Ubuntu's Qt. We should see it in a ppa soon (I assume) then it should eventually move to the normal repos.

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

[GreyGeek]

Hi again,

thank you for your replies.

As already posted I have found the solution already. I did not post for trouble shooting or tech help, hence I have chosen the soap box.

You call it a soap box? It was more like a drive-by shooting.

I myself am quite familiar with Linux distros and we already had run UNIX in the 90s on a SGI O2 machine.
I also run a Linux based server on a MIPS machine.
I did not lose any data being admin myself I know about a proper backup concept.

Did your experience teach you anything about "to a thousand eyes all bugs are shallow" and, "test early and test often"?

Microsoft and the PC OEM's violate the Clayton-Sherman Anti-Trust Act in that the OEM's are forced, and they force you, to accept Windows on any PC you buy (although that has changed somewhat in recent years). Because of that Microsoft can afford to hire beta testers (but do they?) to test their software. Linux users test the FOSS that they use and file bug reports as part of the quality control for Linux. You should know that. We don't complain in forums about a distro, we file bug reports along with appropriate data to help developers improve their software.

The solution is of course to run the apt commands right after fresh installation and run apt whenever there are updates and ditch discover.
I have read the corresponding threads and nobody knows under which exact circumstances discover fails.

I am speaking for those who want to gather their first experiences from a linux distro such as Kubuntu.
Kubuntu is modern and stylish and attracts a lot of people. People who are coming from windows.

It is not funny when a simple update renders the OS useless, though. It is not funny when the history of development of discover is running through a it is broken, it got fixed cycle.
Have you tried to install Kubuntu from scratch -today- and then ran discover to get your system fully updated? Did it complete successfully?
These are the common steps any newcomer would apply.

Drive by shootings aren't funny either.

Did you get written permission from those you claim to represent? Just how many is that?

Do you have even a clue or scrap of evidence as to the percentage of those who installing Kubuntu have an experience like you describe? Not likely. Except for the regulars here most visitors come by to ask for help. Most of the time they didn't check sum and the result was a system with broken components. Or, they installed software from outside the repositories. Or, they attempted something fancy without understanding what they were trying to do. We usually get them straightened out after we get them to give us relevant data, and not just a bunch of whiny prose.

I know 3 examples of hardware configurations, mine included where it fails.
Discover either freezes or it crashes without further notice. No new updates reported and after reboot blank screen.
Or when trying to shutdown one cannot anymore...I myself know how to kill an app with the red skull...that's not the point.

I have opened this thread because I want Kubuntu being a successful OS (KDE plasma rocks) and I am posting from it right now. And I talk about 'ordinary' users, users who are simple users who even have to ask friends for the installation, because an installation is already too much tech for them.

From their perspective it is comprehensible not the get further involved into Kubuntu and to choose another distro.
Discover is unreliable, behaves incomprehensible and that unnoticed until something seriously is broken...

And I stick to the statement of my thread title. For a LTS release from April with current issues I cannot recommend it as a reliable productive OS. Rolling releases OK..but LTS no.

Constructive criticism. No personal.

Shouldn't Kubuntu be an option for people who are sick about windows 10? And accessible and reliable for newcomers?

Regards
Vaira

Three examples? That's all you got? There are probably 10X that many here who have had no problem with Discover.

Personally, I uninstalled it because I don't need the pretty pictures and I have no intention of buying anything from a software store. BTW, it's NOT an updater. Didn't you know that?

Did your three examples use the same USB stick, or attempt to bypass default installation procedures without knowing what they were doing? Do they have off-brand hardware with uncommon GPU's and CPU's? Why didn't you describe the make and model of the machines your three examples were using.

Kubuntu IS an option for Windows users and has been for over a decade. And, it is accessible and reliable. I've been using Kubuntu since Feb of 2009 and I have yet to experience a crash on my installation.

It probably doesn't surprise you that I don't care about your recommendations. With friends like you Kubuntu needs no enemies. But then, you've made it quite clear that you are no friend of Kubuntu, but you seem to think well of Win10. You sound like a troll.

[oldgeek]

I'm glad I'm not a developer working on Discover! I use it off and on with the current LTS as well as on the new Neon and Cosmic Cuttlefish, both on Virtual machines, and my only problem so far has been that it takes longer to update than does the command line. But not that much longer. I mainly use Discover as a software store, and not that often. The reviews I've seen of both Kubuntu and Neon all praise Discover, ironically.

[Thomas00]

At the risk of showing my ignorance, I never realized Discover is meant to be a software store and is not just the default software updater. For me it was the thing which pops up when I click on the update notification and that's how I used it...initially. After it kept on hanging when searching, sometimes consuming 100% cpu and often not returning a result when clearly it should, I gave up on it and use the command line ever since.

But I'd agree with some of the comments here, the default app which launches when updates are due should be rock solid, no matter what it's actual purpose is. I switched from Windows to Neon (now Kubuntu) two years ago and from day one was really irritated by the fact that something as fundamental as the OS updater is so full of bugs. First impression after installing is very poor. In my opinion Discover is doing Kubuntu and Neon a disservice!

[Vaira]

Well, I must be one of the fortunate few who have had no problems with Discover updates at all. I like the way Discover instantly tells me there are updates available and I've quite honestly had no issues with the updates ... so far! OK, now that I've said that maybe something will go wrong tomorrow, but who knows, nothing's perfect in this world.

I also wish the OP would give us some detail about what went wrong, maybe it was a corrupted ISO to begin with, but we're just left guessing again.

As I'm a little pessimistic I routinely run the sha256 check on the ISO after downloading it (especially as I download my ISO's via torrents) and I also run the MD5 check when booting it to make sure everything is as it should be before committing to the install.

Why do you say it was the updater?

I would expect, in the absence of any other indication, that the updates borked the OS, and that it would have happened with the other updating methods. (Not that I wish to defend Discover, nor argue against your point that this shouldn't happen.)

Another possibility is a bad iso originally; was it the same iso on both install attempts, and did you check its md5sums? One of our members here always raises that point, and I used to think "yeah, yeah...", but it happened to me earlier this year, and I was glad that I'd checked.

"Rendered my OS useless" could be many different problems, even classes of problems. If you'd like some help with this stuff, just ask, but we'd need a bit more info.

If you try again, posting a list of the updates (apt list --upgradable) before you update might be useful to someone.

The updates are not the reason for it. After clean installation I ran apt and all 400+ installed properly. Since my fresh installation I always run apt. Anything is fine.

The details (which do not change the fact what has happened)

Last June I tried Kubuntu the first time. I wanted KDE and Mint (what I had used previously and never was picky) had dropped KDE since Mint 19.
I tried it live booting from DVD. I was impressed and I installed it on USB drive to test it further applying all updates. After 3 weeks intense testing (without issues) I decided to replace Mint by it.
I installed it on a separate SSD. Samsung evo 850. Using default and LUKS volume. I updated it to the latest with discover, no issues that time.
The ISO / my DVD is fine and not cause of the issue.

Discover is the default updater since it is the app that prompts for it and everybody not knowing it otherwise uses it.
I noticed that discover sometimes does not ask for su password and does nothing. Had to kill it then it worked. Issue1
It sometimes did not complete, it has frozen, the progress bars stopped. Had to kill it. And I could not reboot. It refused to and I had to use the terminal Issue2

2 weeks ago I did some usual work and ran discover for updates. It has frozen again. I shutdown via terminal and at next boot I have got a blank screen.
I booted a previous Kernel and had default resolution, but no more blank screen. I ran sudo dpkg --configure -a and both known apt commands to complete the updates. I was back at FHD. I checked for recent data to be saved different from backup saved it and decided to go for a clean installation. I wanted a clean OS not a improperly restored one. (could be who knows)...

I did exactly the same I did last June. In the meantime the updates increased compared to June to 400+. After first boot from SSD I ran discover. I did not observe it closely, but when I came back it reported no new updates.
Reboot lead to blank screen again. (I suspected that this would happen again, but wanted results).

I installed it again, again same way, but I ran apt commands from terminal. Anything OK until today. No complaints.

It doesn't matter why discover has failed here. Fact is it does fail and apt does not. Discover is the app that prompts for updates and nobody knows in advance about.
The ISO is not the reason, the way of installation is not, the updates themselves are not and my hardware config is not. Kubuntu runs fine using apt.

You call it a soap box? It was more like a drive-by shooting.

Did your experience teach you anything about "to a thousand eyes all bugs are shallow" and, "test early and test often"?

Microsoft and the PC OEM's violate the Clayton-Sherman Anti-Trust Act in that the OEM's are forced, and they force you, to accept Windows on any PC you buy (although that has changed somewhat in recent years). Because of that Microsoft can afford to hire beta testers (but do they?) to test their software. Linux users test the FOSS that they use and file bug reports as part of the quality control for Linux. You should know that. We don't complain in forums about a distro, we file bug reports along with appropriate data to help developers improve their software.

Drive by shootings aren't funny either.

Did you get written permission from those you claim to represent? Just how many is that?

Do you have even a clue or scrap of evidence as to the percentage of those who installing Kubuntu have an experience like you describe? Not likely. Except for the regulars here most visitors come by to ask for help. Most of the time they didn't check sum and the result was a system with broken components. Or, they installed software from outside the repositories. Or, they attempted something fancy without understanding what they were trying to do. We usually get them straightened out after we get them to give us relevant data, and not just a bunch of whiny prose.

Three examples? That's all you got? There are probably 10X that many here who have had no problem with Discover.

Personally, I uninstalled it because I don't need the pretty pictures and I have no intention of buying anything from a software store. BTW, it's NOT an updater. Didn't you know that?

Did your three examples use the same USB stick, or attempt to bypass default installation procedures without knowing what they were doing? Do they have off-brand hardware with uncommon GPU's and CPU's? Why didn't you describe the make and model of the machines your three examples were using.

Kubuntu IS an option for Windows users and has been for over a decade. And, it is accessible and reliable. I've been using Kubuntu since Feb of 2009 and I have yet to experience a crash on my installation.

It probably doesn't surprise you that I don't care about your recommendations. With friends like you Kubuntu needs no enemies. But then, you've made it quite clear that you are no friend of Kubuntu, but you seem to think well of Win10. You sound like a troll.

It's called soap box by the forums admin not me. I just wanted to say...
I have asked to take my post as constructive objective criticism, not a personal. I do not argue against 'your' Kubuntu and how you are using it.
Obviously you are not able to comply and take it a bit personal. I do neither bash on Kubuntu nor on you. This is no war of operating systems with friends and enemies.
You seemingly have prejudices against me (against somebody who points on an existing issue) which are not reasoned.

How many 'simple' people do you think do open a thread here to make it public after they have made the same experience when there are many other distros to choose instead of which is of far less hassle?
I have not posted detailed hardware config, because Kubuntu runs actually fine. I run nothing special and well known brands. Asus mainboard, I7, Nvidia 970, 16GB RAM, 3 SSDs. I dual boot Kubuntu with w7. I do not use w10 at all, get over it!

I have had bad luck getting blank screens, OK. But this is not the only thread about and you're talking about like the issue does not exist. People who are still using discover have to expect issues no matter what and this is a no go for a productive OS.

An OS that has an unreliable updater is unreliable, regardless of its name.

Regards,
Vaira

[claydoh]

Hmm just noting that you've started seeing 400 updates, which makes me wonder if you are using the original 18.04.0 iso and not the updated 18.04.1, which will have much of the updates since April rolled in. It was released on July 26

I just did a fresh full install of 18.04.1 and there were 153 updated packages, with only 2 qt qml ones being related to Plasma/Kubuntu.

A full upgrade of Plasma applications, and frameworks is normally around 250+ packages so this makes me think you are using the original release iso.

Hope this can help a bit.

[GreyGeek]

You come here complaining that a noob installing Kubuntu for the first time would hit a Discover problem and go away. So, you post a whine and if, by chance, the noob comes here and sees your whine do you think he'll stay or leave?

Did you file a bug report?
https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting

BTW, I also installed BIonic on a Samsung EVO 850 SSD but without LUKS. I chose Btrfs on the entire sda1 partition. After I completed my install, my first task was to install muon and uninstall Discover, because it solves a problem that does not exist. I experiment heavily with my system and Btrfs makes rolling back a 3 minute task.

I ran with Neon for almost a year just to play on the leading edge of Plasma (not the bleeding edge). In all that time I never had a single problem that wasn't of my own making. That was true with Kubuntu before I tried Neon and it is true of Bionic, which I installed a couple months ago.

[MadMage999]

You come here complaining that a noob installing Kubuntu for the first time would hit a Discover problem and go away. So, you post a whine and if, by chance, the noob comes here and sees your whine do you think he'll stay or leave?

Did you file a bug report?
https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting

BTW, I also installed BIonic on a Samsung EVO 850 SSD but without LUKS. I chose Btrfs on the entire sda1 partition. After I completed my install, my first task was to install muon and uninstall Discover, because it solves a problem that does not exist. I experiment heavily with my system and Btrfs makes rolling back a 3 minute task.

I ran with Neon for almost a year just to play on the leading edge of Plasma (not the bleeding edge). In all that time I never had a single problem that wasn't of my own making. That was true with Kubuntu before I tried Neon and it is true of Bionic, which I installed a couple months ago.

Well, I understand you're frustrated, but whose fault is it the software installation that is bundled with the standard interface (Discover) and is linked to automatically when the update notification pops up (Discover) is a piece of crap? The producers of the software who set it up that way or the end user who just downloaded it and expected it to work?

I never use discover either, because I've learned that these types of tools are crap, and it's best to use apt or at least muon, but blaming him for complaining about something that seems to me to be worthy of complaint is hardly sensible IMO.

This attitude of blaming the user for doing what the software seems to be designed for and failing because the software is inherently flawed is ridiculous. If you ask me there is NO point in having a graphical installer, or linking that installer to be the default when updates are needed when the only installer that can actually be trusted is based on the CLI. But then there are alternatives, like muon. Why isn't muon the default graphical installer if it's so much better than discover?

Maybe discover is a work in progress. I get that. Hell, GNU/Linux is a work in progress, and it keeps getting better all the time but some stuff just isn't quite right. I'm sure there are are a ton of people who are grateful, and I'm one of them that we have these distributions of software for free that are in so many ways superior to what we're used to paying for, but you're tearing into this guy like it's his fault the damn thing is buggy and how is it that this is not widely known by the people making the distro already if we all seem to know? Did any of us who are aware that discover is buggy file reports?

[Qqmike]

And, oh, the debate goes on!

Focussing only on the Discover issue (and no other Kubuntu/Linux bashing), I must agree with (1) myself ... what I've said above, and (2) what MadMage999 has just said above in post #27.

To get this, let's take an extreme-case scenario. Consider a user who is just that, a user of an OS. She/he knows nothing about anything other than clicking GUI buttons, and that's all she wishes to do to get the results she wants from her OS--email, graphics, Skype, word processing, spreadsheets, family photos, and so on. The updates to her OS are very important, especially security updates, but also routine, ongoing updates to the software, the firmware, and other components. The only thing she knows to do is to respond to messages from her OS that updates are due now, and so she clicks that Discover notification button and goes ... goes where?!!!! goes into a freeze? She/he doesn't even know who to ask about that or where to ask, doesn't even know about this forum (but even if she/he did know about it, may not wish to do the Konsole dance), but she could google it and hope-expect to find a quick download to fix her problem ... I think you get my point in the extreme-case scenario. I know many really smart people who use an OS but are sort of helpless when they encounter a glitch, we all know people like that. The very most they wish to do to fix their glitches is to click on a download button, not go into any command line (which they view as computer programming or "geek" work). Is it too much to ask someone to use Konsole to do a routine necessary task? It may be too much! And that is the point. Maybe Skype or something has a glitch in it for a specific Linux OS. That's kind of OK--an OS doesn't absolutely have to guarantee a user that it can run all software packages. But not when necessary (security) updates are in glitch mode. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Snowhog]

Qqmike@

I do agree with everything you just posted. No real disagreement. That said though, what I think everyone is forgetting is that every "free" distribution of Linux, and by that I mean every distribution of Linux that isn't being monetized for profit by the owner/developer, is and remains, in effect, a beta OS, highly dependent on large numbers of users who take the time to 'abuse' the OS (abuse used here to mean 'put it through it's paces') and appropriately document any/all issues they encounter, providing that documentation to the owner/developers so fixes/improvements can be made. Develop, release, test, report, fix, repeat.

What I think the real problem is, is how and what the "free" Linux distributions are presented to be to the 'public at large'. So many 'newbies' to Linux; those who are not more than the average 'click an icon' PC user; have an unrealistic view that 'Linux' is a 'free alternative' to Windows, and that it should run just like Windows. They are expecting a 'free lunch'.

[MadMage999]

Qqmike@

I do agree with everything you just posted. No real disagreement. That said though, what I think everyone is forgetting is that every "free" distribution of Linux, and by that I mean every distribution of Linux that isn't being monetized for profit by the owner/developer, is and remains, in effect, a beta OS, highly dependent on large numbers of users who take the time to 'abuse' the OS (abuse used here to mean 'put it through it's paces') and appropriately document any/all issues they encounter, providing that documentation to the owner/developers so fixes/improvements can be made. Develop, release, test, report, fix, repeat.

What I think the real problem is, is how and what the "free" Linux distributions are presented to be to the 'public at large'. So many 'newbies' to Linux; those who are not more than the average 'click an icon' PC user; have an unrealistic view that 'Linux' is a 'free alternative' to Windows, and that it should run just like Windows. They are expecting a 'free lunch'.

I'm sorry, Snowhog. I realize you were probably talking to Qqmike just now, but of course we all saw it, and I couldn't help but read that and think, "Is he stating that because the software is free it can't be expected to be as good as paid software?".