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    Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

    Do your political views and/or views on social issues affect the way you interact with other people--in real life? Do they affect choices you make in your job [if applicable]?

    I don't know why, but earlier today I was reflecting back on some things from several years ago, and that got me to wondering about other people and how they deal with similar issues.

    One of my thoughts had to do with a client we had at the data processing company where I was the programmer. The client was a vehemently anti-abortion organization. I'm pro-choice. I could have refused to accept them as a client (I had that authority), but after much discussion in my own head I came to the conclusion that it wasn't in the best interest of the company to do that, so we went ahead and accepted them and did a lot of work for them over the years. I HATED what they stood for--which included an ABSOLUTE ban on abortions, even in cases of rape or incest--but to make it more bearable I told myself they were paying me and I was making contributions to Planned Parenthood with, essentially, their money. It turned out that the woman I dealt with from the organization was very nice, and she and I would chit chat and shoot the breeze, and I found myself liking her, despite our great difference of opinion on the abortion topic.

    Another thought was about a now-deceased dear friend. He was vocally and unequivocally Republican. I was a liberal Democrat. A VOCAL one. He was a former Marine who'd fallen on hard times due to a congenital bone disease that was causing his hips to deteriorate, and I told him he could move in with me when he lost his apartment after losing his job. We were quite a sight! He had a bumper sticker on his car--which, of course, was parked at my house--that said "There are patriotic Americans...and then there are Democrats." (That actually really pissed me off, because I'm as patriotic as the next guy, and my husband is an Air Force veteran who was permanently, partially disabled while on active duty, so, yeah, I think that's pretty patriotic.) On MY car, I had an assortment of anti-Bush bumper stickers; at various times they included:

    [img width=400 height=101]http://www.smartassproducts.com/images/kubuntuforums/antibush.jpg[/img]






    and my all-time personal favorite:

    [img width=400 height=176]http://www.smartassproducts.com/images/kubuntuforums/antibush4.jpg[/img]

    But, see, here's the thing--even though Erik and I were polar opposites when it came to politics, it NEVER affected our friendship. We'd have the most amazing debates/arguments/discussions but they never got ugly. Heated, yes! Ugly, no.

    One time when we were getting ready to leave the house (I was taking him to an appointment at the VA Hospital in Dallas), I asked if it would bother him if I wore my "What part of Bush LIED don't you understand?" t-shirt, and that if it would I'd wear something else. He said no.

    We really respected each other, but couldn't have been any further apart in our political views.

    By the way, my best friend, whom I've mentioned before, is also a staunch Republican and a disabled, retired Marine. I met her through Erik. As with Erik, when I met her we were polar opposites politically, and conventional wisdom practically dictates that we should never have even liked each other, let alone become best friends. But we are.

    My point, long-winded as it's been getting here, is that I wonder how others react when dealing with someone whose political or social views are diametrically opposed to their own. Do you avoid them? Does it matter to you what their views on such things are? Or do you put that aside and get to know them for THEM, and not their politics?
    Xenix/UNIX user since 1985 | Linux user since 1991 | Was registered Linux user #163544


    #2
    Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

    Originally posted by DoYouKubuntu
    I HATED what they stood for
    That's the problem with politics. Becoming too emotionally involved in politics negates one's humanity.
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      #3
      Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

      I'll mention just this one example. In all 50 states, emergency contraception is legal. In my own state, pharmacists have been granted permission to refuse dispensing Plan B, even if the patient presents a valid prescription. Listen up, pill pusher: your personal beliefs should not be allowed to interfere with established national law nor my ability to exercise that law. (Most of Washington is sparsely populated; good luck finding two 24-hour pharmacies in, say, East Wenatche.)

      Or, more briefly: your right to exercise your politics ends at the boundaries of my body.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

        Maybe that's one reason why Washington is known widely as the "State of Single Mothers."

        Personally, I think the Framers are spinning in their graves. Virtually everyone has forgotten many of our fore fathers came here to avoid religious persecution (among other reasons).

        Please Read Me

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          #5
          Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

          As far as the OP: I cannot abide someone with strong opinions based on nothing. I think if you have a strong belief on some topic - you should be able to back it up with a strong argument and logical conclusions. If you can't, then you're just an idiot. Sorry, not a nice way to say it, but it's the best I can do at this hour (and coffee level).

          This is why I have a problem with religion.

          It's not logic based so you can't convince me you're right and everyone else is wrong. And every religion (with only one exception I know of) can't win you over by proving they're right, so they jamb their lunacy down your throat using brain washing, guilt, threats, and abuse of power (can you say the so-called "Christian Majority?") which in this country means politics.

          You don't have to look farther than the abortion issue to prove that the politicians do not care about what the majority wants. Unfortunately, the religious lunatics have a 100% voting turnout and the average citizen closer to 30% (I just made that up... ).

          I, for one always vote. Even when I know it can't influence the outcome of an election. IMO, if you don't vote - I'm not going to listen to you complain.

          Please Read Me

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            #6
            Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

            Interesting topic. One I've thought about several times this year.

            What I've found is that I am intolerant of intolerance. (Before you say it, I caution you that I HAVE taken courses in Math logic ... let's see my book shelf here ... my first course ... Mathematical Logic/Kleene/1967 ... We are operating on a loose and lighter level here on this topic today ...)

            Add to it: intolerant of ignorance, the kind of ignorance that is a lazy ignorance, where someone chooses not to learn the facts but would rather go on bias, bigotry, prejudice.

            I do agree with Oshun about religion. However, on the subject of logic vs emotion-intuition-other modes of discovery though, boy, as I age, I see the limits of logic. Logic is real good for designing MRI machines and drones and telephone circuits and cash-flow spreadsheets. But--another Don Juan quote--logic craps out in an instant when it is outside its safe, narrow bounds. We do not live in a world that is anywhere close to being explained by logic alone. At the base of logic is words, a bunch of words. At this point, to save my "typer," I'd defer to The Wisdom of Insecurity/Alan Watts to address limitations of using words to describe philosophical truths.

            An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

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              #7
              Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

              Mike: some good points. Mostly I used "logic" to mean drawing a conclusion based on some experience or knowledge. Most people - when questioned - guide their lives based on what they were told by someone else rather than any reasoned thought process.

              I should have said "reasoned" conclusions rather than logical. I fully agree that logic, in it's mathematical sense is not the Holy Grail (sorry, couldn't resist the pun ).

              Please Read Me

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                #8
                Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                Originally posted by Qqmike
                logic craps out in an instant when it is outside its safe, narrow bounds.
                Not really so much as it collides with fantasy. Scientists want to understand the nature of the universe. Questions about the universe lead to questions about matter. Questions about matter lead to questions about energy. Questions about energy lead to questions about the very concepts of time and space.

                The theories to answer all these questions lead one to wonder how any of it can be without the influence of a "divine" observer outside it all.

                EDIT
                Admittedly I'm a bit outside topic here.
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                  #9
                  Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                  Oshunluvr and Telengard, (your Replies #6 & #7) -- I agree completely with the points/responses you've given above.
                  An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

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                    #10
                    Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                    Too much hating these days. From my childhood participation in organized religion, the only reference to hating that I can recall is "hate the sin, love the sinner". Politics does not generally stir the level of emotion in me that is necessary to hate. People have different views. Liberals seem to have great faith in the power of Government to do good. I worked 12 years in the federal government -- I know that it's just civil servants trying to keep their jobs and benefits. Anything good for the average citizen, that comes out of the federal government is pretty much accidental, IMHO. Which is not to say the conservatives have my high admiration either -- there's little to admire in the performance of government during 2001 - 2004 when they owned it.

                    My personal life -- yeah, I'm trying to live on my investments, and the equities markets cannot function well with no national economic policy. So the market has been going sideways for 2 years. We (USA) have not had a federal budget in 3 years -- IMHO the Congress is in default of their constitutional duty to produce a budget. I think the Framers forgot to include the penalty for any given Congress that proves itself incompetent. I'd be for a constitutional amendment that dismisses the entire Congress as of October 2 in any fiscal year for which a signed budget is not in place, and calls for an election in the succeeding November.

                    My personal life, Part 2 -- I'll be 65 in a few years, and hope to enjoy a Social Security benefit, inasmuch as I've been paying into it for the past 35 years. Let's see, where do those funds come from -- OH YEAH, the payroll tax which is presently enjoying a so-called "holiday". (They're making up for it by using what -- OH YEAH, the BANKRUPT general fund).

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                      #11
                      Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                      Nice post dibl :-) Changing gears around and back through sideways ...

                      On the subject of the original post, I have found you must be careful mixing politics and relationships/friendships.

                      You can agree to disagree and never discuss it openly.
                      You can agree to disagree but be able to have open (and unresolved) discussions.
                      You can go at each others throats constantly in heated, emotional, resentful (and unresolved) discussions.

                      You have to find your way in a friendship, but I agree that it is an issue. Friendships can be damaged or broken.

                      I really debated whether to share a personal example, but then the personal story is what makes discussions like this interesting, isn't it? Spock ... you there pal? ... where the hell did you go? ... come back ...

                      I'll be brief because those of you who get this will get it; those who wouldn't get it will just get p*d.

                      Leaning toward being somewhat liberal and thinking here. Recently, I located a friend/classmate, Mary (not her real name), from grade school, when we were in Kindergarten to 8th grade, nice, typical Midwest small town, circa 1954-1962 or so. And we found we have a lot in common and recounted many fond memories of growing up. We hit it off fairly well at first. (We are both married and I'm just referring to having a warm friendship here, though at times it did seem to be getting kinda cozy.)

                      If you happen to be somewhat liberal, then you know about your stereotypes for conservatives (just as conservatives have their stereotype of a liberal being a blazing reckless spending socialist opposed to rugged individualism and all that God & ****-stomp'n stuff).

                      Well, one of my made-up stereotypes for right-wingers might go like this: wealthy or well-to or very comfortable, perhaps in the managerial class (and subject to excesses and bonuses and all), elite, non-thinking, bigoted/biased, closed-minded, not quite sure why he/she votes Republican but just does, and so on. (As I say, I know you get it.)

                      It didn't take long after re-connecting with Mary that all this "stuff" came out, on both sides, when I offhandedly made the casual comment, along the lines of, "Yeah, like all the narcissistic privileged yet clueless people, their heads up their a*, rudely racing their Lexus' into the drive-up at Starbucks to waste $4 on a cup of coffee, like the one next to my grocery store, where they are forever blocking the right-a-way."

                      Well, gosh, gee, what can I say ... THAT opened it up! And, you guessed it: daily, Mary drives her Lexus into the Starbucks to fetch her ****** (I can't recall the very lengthy concatenation of coffee descriptors she spewed off at me, I did understand mocha-something I think ...). And, again, you guessed it, (she): wealthy or well-to, perhaps in the managerial class (and subject to excesses and bonuses and all--she stays at home, her hubby "works" and does this), elite, non-thinking, bigoted/biased, closed-minded, not quite sure why she votes Republican but just does because hubby does, and so on.

                      Really getting petty now ... her emails bashing Obama and the liberals ... obviously photoshopped photos depicting Obama & Co. doing stupid things. And, Mary believed this stuff to be true and factual. Yes, I tried the calm, educational approach for awhile. After all, we do have some starting points, like google, snopes, FactCheck, The Straight Dope, and whatever. Sometimes, education runs right to a dead-end reception and facts are not relevant. And, sorry, but I'm going to say it, there IS a thing among SOME conservatives that the guy in the White House is Black! Black mind you! There is nothing he could do or not do that would ever change THAT! And so went Mary's disposition (at her age 62).

                      What can you do? There ya go. It didn't turn me off to her or cause me to dislike her so much as it wore me out! My brain and feelings went dead, it was too much overhead, exhausting. And so I let things calm down (read: drop along the wayside for now, no more emails, no more phone calls, at least not for now, needing a rest here!).

                      Now, can anyone beat that personal story! (How do you like the elitist tone of MY account of this?!)

                      An intellectual says a simple thing in a hard way. An artist says a hard thing in a simple way. Charles Bukowski

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                        #12
                        Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                        Originally posted by oshunluvr
                        I cannot abide someone with strong opinions based on nothing. I think if you have a strong belief on some topic - you should be able to back it up with a strong argument and logical conclusions. If you can't, then you're just an idiot. Sorry, not a nice way to say it, but it's the best I can do at this hour (and coffee level).
                        Ditto on the coffee issue. I'm just now having my first cup. Had a fitful night and couldn't drag myself out of bed this morning. *sigh* *poor me* *welcome to my pity party*

                        Anyway, I TOTALLY agree with your sentiments regarding strong opinions based on nothing. I wholeheartedly agree that if one has a strong belief on a topic, they SHOULD be able to defend their belief with logical reasons. That's why, in the recent vegetarian...um...discussion, I was adamant that anyone who thinks it's okay to eat sentient beings--in light of the cruelty to animals involved in factory farming [specifically in the US]--should have a better argument than "humans have been doing it for millennia..." That's NOT a logical reason.

                        My two staunch Republican friends have/had logical reasons for choosing to be Republican. They can/could defend their choices of candidates. They also are/were willing to accept the fact that sometimes a Democrat [or other] is the superior candidate. They also are/were pro-choice, and that was based on logic, too. And, yes, they did see the contradiction there, as far as going against the grain of their chosen party.

                        Even the anti-choice woman I mentioned had logical reasons to support her beliefs, although her beliefs stemmed from her religious views. Because of the environment and relationship, i.e., service provider and paying client at a job, I refrained (and YES it was difficult) from probing her too much. I have years of experience under my belt debating the abortion issue, and I knew how easily things could turn ugly. So I left it at our brief discussions of why she was "pro-life." Those reasons included her strong belief that ALL life, even in its most primitive stages of development, is sacred. (Interestingly, as with most anti-choicers, her feelings about "all life" don't include animals that are tortured and slaughtered for food. I wonder why? )

                        When someone says that they're "against homosexuality" because it's "wrong," and I ask what they're using to come to that conclusion, it's "because the Bible says so!" So despite years of research showing anatomical differences between the brains of gays and straights, and other data supporting the concept that gays are born that way, if the Bible says it's wrong, it's wrong! And they use it as license to gay bash...and worse.

                        This is why I have a problem with religion.

                        It's not logic based so you can't convince me you're right and everyone else is wrong. And every religion (with only one exception I know of) can't win you over by proving they're right, so they jamb their lunacy down your throat using brain washing, guilt, threats, and abuse of power (can you say the so-called "Christian Majority?") which in this country means politics.

                        You don't have to look farther than the abortion issue to prove that the politicians do not care about what the majority wants. Unfortunately, the religious lunatics have a 100% voting turnout and the average citizen closer to 30% (I just made that up... ).

                        I, for one always vote. Even when I know it can't influence the outcome of an election. IMO, if you don't vote - I'm not going to listen to you complain.
                        Ditto. On all counts.
                        Xenix/UNIX user since 1985 | Linux user since 1991 | Was registered Linux user #163544

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                          #13
                          Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                          Originally posted by Qqmike

                          Now, can anyone beat that personal story! (How do you like the elitist tone of MY account of this?!)
                          No, I can't. And I love that haughtier-than-thou tone!

                          FWIW, my best friend in the world is a lifelong committed Democrat (and a Government employee, btw). I'm quite sure that we've been cancelling out each other's vote in most of the elections in the 30+ years that we've known each other. Mature people can find humor, irony, and logical contradictions in any system of beliefs, whether religious or political. Some really funny Jewish jokes come to mind ....

                          I think it is part of human nature to hold beliefs that are at least partly irrational, when examined hard. But it's not nice to subject other peoples' beliefs to hard examination, IMHO. Unless you want beat up yourself.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                            Originally posted by dibl
                            Too much hating these days.
                            And, calling the opinions of others, when lacking a sound counter argument, "hateful".


                            I know that it's just civil servants trying to keep their jobs and benefits. Anything good for the average citizen, that comes out of the federal government is pretty much accidental, IMHO.
                            It's the same way in state government, where I worked for the last eleven years before I retired. Most of what a state employee does, in NE anyway, is DICTATED by state law. The state civil servant has NO leeway in interpreting how a law is applied. They must adhere to the letter of the law or risk their job, fines or imprisonment.

                            Personally, IMO, essentially ALL of our problems stem from long festering corruption at the Federal elected employees level, not that there isn't a lack of corrupt local "servants" as well, AND specifically the corruption of corporate (public, private, and charitable) money on Congress and the Senate.

                            I've always been against the death penalty because of my criminal forensic business I seen up close and personal how our judicial system operates. The most unreliable witness is the eye witness. Even sound and video bytes can be edited to make the innocent look guilty. I am also against the death penalty for the unborn. They are the victims of crime as well, even if it is the crime of inconvenience. That makes me Pro-Life. So be it.
                            "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                            – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

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                              #15
                              Re: Politics: How do they affect your personal life?

                              Originally posted by dibl
                              FWIW, my best friend in the world is a lifelong committed Democrat (and a Government employee, btw). I'm quite sure that we've been cancelling out each other's vote in most of the elections in the 30+ years that we've known each other.
                              Yep, I went to the polls in 2004 knowing full well that Erik and I were negating each other's votes, but I went anyway.

                              Mature people can find humor, irony, and logical contradictions in any system of beliefs, whether religious or political.
                              Exactly.
                              Xenix/UNIX user since 1985 | Linux user since 1991 | Was registered Linux user #163544

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