Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

[Linkmaster]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

You can't remove them as they are integral to the system - they are tied to system wide dependencies. If you don't want to use them, just disable them as suggested.

Is it known about a way to make them system-independant?? Because I hate to make the reference, but to people who try and remove IE or regular Explorer, its..well, to put it simply, its integrated into the system. I hope this won't be a similar thing, and due to Linux's nature, I highly doubt it will be, but I'm just pointing out the similarity

[Snowhog]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

There is a point at which 'user freedom' conflicts with developers 'direction' they decide to take the OS. As I understand it, the direction that Kubuntu was decided to move into necessitated the implementation of Akonadi, Nepomuk and Strigi. However, and as I already stated, you are not required to utilize these applications. Kubuntu will still run just fine if you disable (don't enable) them once Kubuntu is installed. You don't have to use Kmail, which uses Akonadi. You don't have to enable Nepomuk and Strigi unless you want to. In this regard the user still has freedom of choice. If it were otherwise, these three would be turned on by default with no way to turn them off.

[bra|10n]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

Thank you Snowhog.
I asked about removal because GreyGeek implyed he had removed them from his system, and being OCD I thought well if I don't use them...

[GreyGeek]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

Those utilities have steadily improved and now usually runs well on most hardware. The only one I don't use is Strigi, because I prefer "locate" to do my searching, instead of Dolphin. Old habits are hard to break, and locate is lightening FAST!

[Linkmaster]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

There is a point at which 'user freedom' conflicts with developers 'direction' they decide to take the OS. As I understand it, the direction that Kubuntu was decided to move into necessitated the implementation of Akonadi, Nepomuk and Strigi. However, and as I already stated, you are not required to utilize these applications. Kubuntu will still run just fine if you disable (don't enable) them once Kubuntu is installed. You don't have to use Kmail, which uses Akonadi. You don't have to enable Nepomuk and Strigi unless you want to. In this regard the user still has freedom of choice. If it were otherwise, these three would be turned on by default with no way to turn them off.

I can understand this, and I agree with it. I understand that you can turn them off, I just shuddered when my mind linked the two to each other. But, unlike IE and Explorer, you can make them 'go away'. Which I'm happy about, I was just wondering/pointing out my thoughts

[beast2k]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

One thing I can tell ya is I was drove to Kubuntu . Kubuntu for me was always one of those "ones to keep an eye on" but I kept an eye on it from Ubuntu. After Ubuntu 11.04 came out I was actually drove straight back to Windows XP which I have been using until I find a distro to move to, now with my mind made up Kubuntu goes on the beast tonight after work. Personally I think Canonical is seeing dollar signs, It makes me ask the question was this always their focus? perhaps they were just using the open source community for freebie software testing and development. (Redhat & Fedora?) I don't think unity came from the goodness of their heart there must be some motivation behind it. Usually this kind of motivation is money. After all they know $elling Ubuntu would be a non starter. Cell phone and tablets are where the money is now days so it kind of makes sense. So after all is said and done I think Money killed Ubuntu. No Ubuntu is not dead yet but I think Ubuntu has started down that road. In 5 years, if Ubuntu is still around, I don't think it will even be for desktop use , it will be for cell phones and tablets only but there will be ALOT of forks based on the "old" Ubuntu.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

That's a possibility. Mark Shuttleworth could get killed in a car or plane crash too.

Even IF Canonical drops the desktop (but I doubt they will), there are several other equally fine distros that use KDE as their desktop. It is, after all, Kubuntu's implementation of KDE that drew me to it. Because the KDE dev crew determines the future of KDE, it will be essentially the same regardless of which base distro it rides on.

[beast2k]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

That's a possibility. Mark Shuttleworth could get killed in a car or plane crash too.

Even IF Canonical drops the desktop (but I doubt they will), there are several other equally fine distros that use KDE as their desktop. It is, after all, Kubuntu's implementation of KDE that drew me to it. Because the KDE dev crew determines the future of KDE, it will be essentially the same regardless of which base distro it rides on.

Point taken, but ya got to wonder, what are they thinking? If they would only just tell us the general goal or plan perhaps some of us would say "ahh okay I can get behind that" or something similar. From my perspective I see no logical reason for them to do what they are doing especially sense Gnome is working on what looks like a great desktop that seems well thought out and more than reasonable. Perhaps it may be soon time for Kubuntu to rename and move on, another question should Kubuntu stick around and risk going down with the ship? or bail now and save itself? How long will it be before Ubuntu's problems become Kubuntu's problems. All ready Ubuntu 11.04 is having some serious graphics driver problems which is a problem we have not had sence 5.04 (I think ? to long ago) . I am starting to rant so I'll just say generally they had almost the perfect Gnome desktop and they fixed something that was NOT broken , and guess what , they broke it. Look at the page rankings at Distrowatch for an indicator of where their unity efforts are taking them.

[BigCityCat]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

KDE is not dependent on Canonical. Kubuntu could be abandoned but it wouldn't make a difference.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

.....
Point taken, but ya got to wonder, what are they thinking?
...

I think you answered your own question. The shift to Unity (or byUbuntu!) is one in which a SINGLE desktop would work across several platforms: Desktop, laptop, notebook, netbook, tablet, smartphone.

It's a smart decision if your goal is to minimize costs and maximize coverage. Shuttleworth's goal is, after all, to monetize Ubuntu. He never claimed to be a charity. And, I suspect, that if he cannot monetize Ubuntu within a reasonable period of time he'll invest his money elsewhere. He has been supporting Ubuntu for 6 years. I suspect he may give it another 4 years to turn the corner financially, and begin returning a profit. Unless he steps into RedHat's business model it won't happen with the Desktop through the netbook. Several have tried that route, and unless you can get your OS installed on on a PC OEM desktop (fairly, not as DELL punked Ubuntu), you don't have a chance. That leaves only the tablet and smartphone market, which is wide open.

[charles052]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

I think its' a really good, smart move if using Unity is a business decision. The biggest problem with Linux is the fact that it doesn't come preinstalled in the majority of laptop or desktops. You can praise Linux and any of it's distros all you want, but most people just don't want to do the work of installing and configuring a computer. You already know that, of course.

If Ubuntu can be pre-installed on tablets and smartphones, that could be a big boost to Linux and another blow to Microsoft. Giving consumers more choice. Of course, there's not guarantee that Microsoft won't pull the same crap with Ubuntu that it did with Android, extorting money in the guise of copyright infringement. If I'm not mistaken, MS is still suing Linux for patent or copyright infringement for some reason or another.

I just hope that all goes well for Ubuntu.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

....
most people just don't want to do the work of installing and configuring a computer.
...

Most people, even now, haven't heard of Linux (perhaps as "Ubuntu", but they wouldn't make the connection), and even more would not know how to install a distro from a LiveCD after watching a video showing them how. Even IF they use a Windows box for 10 years, most people are computer illiterate. At least, 4,500,000 of them are.

[woodsmoke]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

I hold out great hopes that Microsith will get REALLLY pi$$y with the overseas mobo producers like ASUS.

I, myself can see absolutely no reason for MS to have snubbed the overseas people and invited only inshore companies like HP, who manufacture overseas, yes with only two caveats.

a) it "could be" that MS is gameplanning that if they can completely, as in completely dominate the inshore computer hardware that they can possibly then make a move on some kind of phone or tablet thing don't know.
b) or it may be that MS is just well pi$$y.

But, if they do really go that route and really do keep offshore hardware mobo people out of the main loop then it
"could" be
that the offshore people say...ok.... we will operate through some kind of cover company and make full bore netbooks or tablets or something with a Linux on them and throw them over transom and see what happens.

if that happened then there really might be a way to get hardware in front of U.S. people.

There are a LOT of variables in Asia that the U.S. and European denizens never get to see.

just some thoughts.

woodsmoke

[woodsmoke]

DW thinks Gnome users migrating to xfce

[quote]
Alternatively, there's Xfce. The Xfce desktop environment is, in a lot of ways, basically a light version of GNOME 2. I find the developers do a nice job of putting together a low-resource, but fully capable desktop.

I suspect a lot of people who don't like the latest generation of GNOME are probably migrating to Xfce.
[quote]

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20110704#news

woodsmoke

[kapil]

Re: Is Unity driving its Ubuntu users towards kubuntu?

oh my.. i guess i am the only person here who liked unity more than gnome.
probable reason.. i was not that fond of gnome. and never really given it a shot.
i have been using kubuntu for 2 years now.. ubuntu being my secondary OS (once in a week may be) and third OS was linuxMint.. as it claimed it can run everything out of the box.

what changes did unity brought for the n00b user.
It was like a fresh start for me in ubuntu. and i just loved it.

Most of people are saying unity is better for touch interface and not for the non touch keyboard.
yes.. it definitely looks good for touch interface... but even for keyboard it is easy to use.
How easy concept it is.. now i have firefox, dolphin, Clementine, gwenview in the sidebar.. and i can simply use the Superkey+ (1 or 2 or 3 or 4..) to open these application. Now that's simplicity!

The laptop these days come in the 16:9 aspect ratio and not the 4:3. So it makes sense to put the unity dock on side instead of at bottom. and on top of that.. it just makes it self invisible when i dont want it to clutter the view. but at the same time.. i can see the time in top menu, so the notification icon, power button. Now that's the efficient use of vertical space!

if i want to run a command, find a file, or an app, i just have to hit super key and start tying in unified search box thingy. Plus now, the new software center in 11.10 shows the apps by rating similar to those in android and other app stores. which will help me choose the app and try it without trying many many other apps and settling for one. Now that's convenience!

And the speed.. ubuntu starts and shuts down much much faster than kubuntu. i know few seconds here and there are fine. but it adds up...

These are the reason why now ubuntu is my new primary os.

but wait there.. there are bunch of stuff which Kubuntu does better.
Most important the plasma desktop. Hell i just dream to have different widgets for different workspaces in ubuntu. but in kubuntu..it is as simple as A B C..
The file handling.. after these many years.. i still dont understand.. why the file copying is buggy in ubuntu. kubuntu or rather is it dolphin? which handles the file operations properly. plus.. i like the graphical display which shows the transfer rate. these kind of little things make up the great OS.
Applications! kubuntu IMHO has better apps than ubuntu. Gwenview, digiKam, KOffice, Clementine, K3b, K9copy, Ktorrent.. almost all the apps are better in KDE.

Let me stress this.. i am neither a ubuntu fanboy nor a kubuntu (which has special place in my heart) fanboy. But just want to tell you. a normal user doesn't care what is underneath till OS just works. and is easy. and from a "new" user point of view unity has become just easy to use. all the apps i need are upfront. nice out of box experience. and new users will get to ubuntu. for the "old" gnome users.. well..there is more chance of them coming to kubuntu.