What is Neon and Should I Care?

[jglen490]

Then 14.04 is your puppy! You'll have another good three years with it.

Nooo, that would be 16.04 LTS - sans Neon. But I know you're just kidding ...

[GreyGeek]

What would a 'bare metal install' be? I have Neon installed to my Virtual Box and can test it there. I don't see a whole lot of difference yet, but I'm just getting started.

Directly to the HD, not as a guest OS in a VM.

[GreyGeek]

Nooo, that would be 16.04 LTS - sans Neon. But I know you're just kidding ...

Actually, I am not! IF rock solid stability is your goal then 14.04 is your puppy. 16.04 is LTS, sure, but it is not as stable yet as 14.04, which has had TWO years of testing, trimming, patching, fixing, etc... If you don't mind installing 16.04 even though it is only 4 months old, then adding Neon to it is a small step. My current 16..04 + Neon is as stable as any Linux I've run since I begin using Linux in 1998. And it is the fastest, too.

[clivejo]

KDE Neon is a valuable tool for the developer and also great for the more expert and inquisitive end user to see and experience the new features KDE are rolling out. As with anything it totally depends on personal likes/dislikes and what you use your system to do. If you want the newest software and don't might breakages then install KDE Neon.

Project Neon was started by the Kubuntu team many years ago ( https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/ProjectNeon ) and was a Continuous Integration system. This has since came to be known as the Kubuntu Continuous Integration (KCI) but its primary role is a development tool for testing and packaging. However, a few people then decided to relaunch Neon as a KDE project (hence why I refer to it as KDE Neon) and make it more accessible / installable, but using KDE infrastructure to host, build and support the project.

There have been many arguments on and off line regarding what KDE Neon is and is not. It is not Kubuntu, and is not a replacement for Kubuntu. But it does help Kubuntu by fixing bugs and providing packaging.

At the end of the day the project is helping get KDE software get installed on Ubuntu systems, which should be supported and embraced in my view. With more people testing and using the new software, bugs are reported and fixes put in place. This makes the software more stable and will in turn lead to a better and more stable environment when Kubuntu publish it.

[GreyGeek]

... If you want the newest software and don't might breakages then install KDE Neon.
...
At the end of the day the project is helping get KDE software get installed on Ubuntu systems, which should be supported and embraced in my view. With more people testing and using the new software, bugs are reported and fixes put in place. This makes the software more stable and will in turn lead to a better and more stable environment when Kubuntu publish it.

I was leary of Neon at first but 16.04 proved to be about twice as fast on my laptop, compared to 14.04, and patches and KDE updates appeared so much quicker on Neon than 16.04, that I decided to jump on board. Newest software - check. Shallow in the repository - check, but I noticed that it had everything I've always installed on my Kubuntu. I'm only using about 3,000 of the 80,000 apps in 16.04's repository, which I installed before I added Neon to my sources.list, and my setting in Muon of only upgrading with the newest apps prevents previous versions of apps from "downgrading" to 16.04.
Initially Neon's widget and icon set was thin, but it has gradually improved, and it now has a decent selection and the HPLIP and other missing icons are now present.

Neon may not be a distro but it is the best "destro" I've ever used since I started using Linux in 1998 with RH 5.0.
Much thanks and gratitude to the Blue-Systems folks and volunteers. My wife's heart and hip surgeries have really strapped us for cash but the Neon folks have given me the opportunity to run the best OS on the planet on my 6 year old Acer laptop. (I'm not saying that without experience. Open source and the GPL has allowed me to try over a dozen of other distros, the most recent being Mint KDE 17.3 for three months, which was fine but not as good as Neon)

[wizard10000]

...But, I just don't see the point in experimenting on what is otherwise a stable, and becoming delightful, platform.

Something for everyone, that's why

I run Plasma5 on top of Debian Unstable - there really is no reason for me to do it other than what I like to call intellectual masturbation, but it addresses a need in me. I take considerable pride in being able to spot stuff that might break my system and *not* installing it just yet and if I do find something that's not been reported, being able to share that with the developers.

I've run Linux for a long time and also take pride in how many years it's been since I broke an installation so badly I had to nuke and reload (about nine) so for me there's also a sense of adventure and every time I *do* break something I learn stuff. Now I'm getting into learning stuff *without* breaking it first. I also contribute what I learn to this and a couple other fora

But - that's what works for me. It would most certainly *not* work for you and that's the beauty behind this thing; that we both get what we want

A computer is an appliance. I have no desire to hack my refrigerator, so I really can understand why someone wouldn't want to mess with a stable system.

cheers -

[GreyGeek]

Nice post, Wizard!

[oldgeek]

OK, supposing I want to jump in and install Neon and not just play with it on my VM, how do I do it without adding yet another partition (I still have W10, but that's another thread) to my 500 GiB hard disk. Apart from Windows, I have Kubuntu 16.04, which does not crash (except for Universe Sandbox, but that's another thread too) and I would like to install it on top of Kubuntu, but I'm not really sure what that exactly entails. My understanding is that Neon is built on Ubuntu, so how would it be different being built on Kubuntu? I don't mind taking a few risks as my important data has been backed up for years. If I didn't like Neon, would I be able to go back to Kubuntu? Or is that a dumb question based on a misunderstanding of what Neon actually is?

[Snowhog]

There isn't any partitioning on the 'true' HDD when creating a VM installataion of another OS. The VM you create, and the OS you install on to it, is just a file on the 'true' HDD.

[oldgeek]

What I meant was I didn't want to have to add another partition for Neon in addition to W10 and Kubuntu, but install directly onto Kubuntu as Greygeek mentioned.

[vinnywright]

OK, supposing I want to jump in and install Neon and I would like to install it on top of Kubuntu, I don't mind taking a few risks as my important data has been backed up for years. If I didn't like Neon, would I be able to go back to Kubuntu? Or is that a dumb question based on a misunderstanding of what Neon actually is?

yes you can install it on top of Kubuntu ,,,,it is just not recommended .

But that is exactly what I am running ,,,,by adding the the neon repo to my "/etc/apt/sources.list" file .

I'm using the /dev/stable branch instead of the user .

IF I were you and going to do this to my system I would first make sure my Kubuntu-16.04 was filly up to date with

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

then add the neon repo

echo deb http://archive.neon.kde.org/stable/ xenial main | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list

if you want the stable user branch use "user" instead of "stable"(this is the /dev/stable ,,,,slightly less stable) in the source line.

then do the

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

once more ,,,,,,,now you will be running neon ,,,,,,,,,,, kinda.

VINNY

[GreyGeek]

What I meant was I didn't want to have to add another partition for Neon in addition to W10 and Kubuntu, but install directly onto Kubuntu as Greygeek mentioned.

If you don't want to touch your Win10 and don't want to create yet another partition then you have three methods left for a practical test of Neon:

1) Run Neon from a persistent LiveUSB (on a stick at least 32GB but preferably 64GB, to make room for added apps). Win10 and Kubuntu 16.04 are never touched.

2) Install VirtualBox on Kubuntu. Then, using a Neon ISO, install Neon as a guest OS on VirtualBox, giving at least 30GB to the virtual hard drive. Unless you have LOTS of memory RAM (4GB for Neon) and VIDEO RAM (as much as VB will allow you), and you've added VirtualBox guest additions, you won't get a good desktop experience, but it will be passable for all but highly intensive graphical apps - read games. You can play with Neon to your hearts content and it will run reasonably fast. I don't expect it would play Universal Sandbox^2 very well, however, but your hardware may be different. Games that need DirectX 10, for example. When your curiosity is satisfied you can delete the Neon guest OS. You can leave VirtualBox installed if you want to play with other distros, or you can uninstall it.

3) This option, which is what I did, will permanently change your Kubuntu 16.04 and convert it into Neon. You already have Kubuntu 16.04 installed. And, you've installed all of the additional apps, widgets, etc. that you want. Add the Neon repository to your installation by either editing /etc/apt/sources.list or adding the appropriate line in the Discover or Muon (my favorite) repository list. In a Konsole issue:
sudo apt-get upgrade
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

You will get a flood of packages to upgrade, probably in the range of 300 to 500. An Ethernet cable connection would be preferred for this method to avoid the possibility of an accidental wifi disconnect. After the update you will reboot. Then repeat the two commands above. Don't be surprised that if, over the next few days you get several updates with 50-150 packages in them.

If, after doing #3, you decide that Neon is not for you, then your only option would be to use the Kubuntu 16.04.1 ISO and reinstall Kubuntu, reformatting the partition that it was originally installed on. This would be about a 15 minute process, and then a couple more hours adding the additional packages you wanted and adjusting your configurations and settings to suit yourself.

[oldgeek]

Thanks for the info. I won't be doing this in the next few days, as I'm going to the jungle next week (I live in Peru). But it looks doable now, and I just may want to try it, especially if it works well. I can't really tell a whole lot from my VM version.

[jglen490]

Something for everyone, that's why

I run Plasma5 on top of Debian Unstable - there really is no reason for me to do it other than what I like to call intellectual masturbation, but it addresses a need in me. I take considerable pride in being able to spot stuff that might break my system and *not* installing it just yet and if I do find something that's not been reported, being able to share that with the developers.

I've run Linux for a long time and also take pride in how many years it's been since I broke an installation so badly I had to nuke and reload (about nine) so for me there's also a sense of adventure and every time I *do* break something I learn stuff. Now I'm getting into learning stuff *without* breaking it first. I also contribute what I learn to this and a couple other fora

But - that's what works for me. It would most certainly *not* work for you and that's the beauty behind this thing; that we both get what we want

A computer is an appliance. I have no desire to hack my refrigerator, so I really can understand why someone wouldn't want to mess with a stable system.

cheers -

Thank you, and that was my point. I like that Linux gives us choices, and if someone has the ability and desire to delve into experimentation - go for it with gusto. I'm thankful for those who do take the time and effort to design, develop, test, and document Linux and the variety of distros that each of us can choose among.

What I've learned from asking the questions is that Neon is not a distro, it does rest on Ubuntu, it uses KDE, and on occasion a package can cause breakage. In perusing the Neon forum, those facts have been amply illustrated. No judgment about the quality of care and effort that individuals put into working on Neon packages, but the nature of this project can and does on occasion break an otherwise stable installation.

So it's not for me, I will stick with Xenial without Neon's baggage. Thanks for everyone's input, but since I've already marked this as Solved, I ask that the next Admin who runs across this thread please lock it!

[oldgeek]

GreyGeek, a question: do you also have Kubuntu 16.04 installed, just in case Neon doesn't work? Another question: do you use the users version, or the developer's version? Where do most of the problems in the Neon discussions come from--the user's or the developer's versions? I'm still deciding whether or not to take the plunge on Friday, when I come back from the jungle.