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    Huge number of installation issues

    Lots of different problems here, and I don't know the proper way to report them all, so for now I'll post them all here in the order that I experienced them, to give a user's impression of the process.

    Background:
    - Currently running Kubuntu 15.10 on an old desktop with a 3ghz Core 2 Quad and 4GB RAM.
    - Trying to install 16.04 beta from the ISO in a VirtualBox VM with 2/4 virtual cores and 1 GB RAM.
    - Using an existing VM with Ubuntu MATE 15.10 to simulate the situation of recycling existing partitions. It has two virtual HDDs: sda is 20gb split over boot/root/home, sdb has a single 256mb swap partition.
    - Using option to install updates, but not option to install 3rd party software.

    Issues follow. Some KDE/Kubuntu related, some the fault of the Ubiquity installer specifically.

    1. Live DVD logs into desktop automatically, with no "try or install" pop-up. The 16.04 docs still show the pop-up, so something is wrong here.
    - Desktop folder containing the installer icon is so small that it hides the icon and text, and also can't be resized.

    2. Plasma hangs, then crashes while trying open menu with installer running. System hangs when I ask it to show me the backtrace, have to hard reset.
    Why was I doing this? Because the partition manager in Ubiquity was showing me that I had a BIOS Grub partition, and I needed the actual KDE partition manager to confirm that the disk was GPT, since this information can't be found in the installer.

    3. Installation hangs after failure to format partitions.
    - After manually partitioning and accepting warnings about partitions, formatting the swap partition fails, and installation ultimately hangs.
    - It turns out that the live system uses existing swap partitions it finds, and it appears that between the OS, Plasma, and Ubiquity, memory use was so high that it could not disable the swap partition.
    - After a couple failures, I tried disabling Akonadi (god, I hate that thing) to get the memory consumption down, and tried again. This time, there is no formatting failure. Note that I haven't been able to find any info on the Kubuntu website regarding memory requirements.

    4. Installation appears to hang, showing 0% for a very long time. System has 100% CPU usage and is mostly unresponsive. This time, I went away for a while rather than giving up after a few minutes of no progress. Eventually the progress bar starts to move, but is extremely slow, much slower than previous Ubuntu installations I've made in VMs. Memory usage 50% (100% including cache), swap usage 100%. Plasma crashes and dies permanently along the way.
    - After making it this far, it seems possible that installation might have succeeded even with the formatting failure in (3) if I had waited long enough, but I expect that an ordinary user would think it's game over, just like I did.

    5. Once package installation is complete, the installer gives a cryptic error about not being able to "restore programs" (maybe it detected the previous Ubuntu MATE installation??) and quits. Live system fails to restart (and remember that Plasma is already dead).
    - Sending an ACPI shutdown signal gets me to the login manager, which also fails to restart the system.
    - Ultimately forced to do a hard reset.

    6. First boot hangs on black screen. ACPI shutdown succeeds and second boot gets me to the login screen.

    7. Bad locale info on first successful boot and login.
    - I'm in Japan now, but my desired locale is en_US. I chose Tokyo as my location in Ubiquity, resulting in JST for the time zone and a mix of en_US and ja_JP locale settings. The date on the login screen, for example, is shown in Japanese.
    - This is not specific to Kubuntu, but it's aggravating nonetheless. The problem is that Ubiquity (in both the GNOME and KDE versions) uses the "where are you" screen to set both time zone and locale. While there is a separate keyboard selection screen, there is no way to specify a locale separately from the timezone.

    8. Packages were not updated during the install process. (I'm fairly certain that I checked it, though with the number of times I went through this, I might have forgotten the last time.) Worse, the systray app (both icon and info shown on click) says my system is up-to-date, even though both APT and Muon Updater know that it's not. (Note: the systray app is basically always wrong in 15.10 in my experience as well).

    There may have been one or two other things, but I'll stop here. Overall it was a pretty bad experience. Even just fixing (1) will massively improve things, because presumably not all of Plasma will be loaded, avoiding the crashes and memory problem.
    Last edited by khanson679; Apr 10, 2016, 07:45 AM. Reason: Corrected Muon Discover -> Muon Updater

    #2
    1gb ram is possibly the root cause of a few of your issues. 2gb is the minimum I'd recommend . the desktop gui and the installer and the package updates during the install are all run and stored in ram. When that quickly runs out the agonizingly slow swap is used to augment memory.

    Quirks of running a vm are always a likely source of issues that you may not experience on a normal install.

    The updater tray notification is fixed actually but that as well as very major updates to plasma et al are stuck in a build queue waiting for someone in Ubuntu ok'ing the couple of dependencies needed to proceed (or for us to poke whoever it is needing to be asked)

    I've never seen nor heard of number 5 before.

    sent from my LG V10 using Tapatalk

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by khanson679 View Post
      - Using an existing VM with Ubuntu MATE 15.10 to simulate the situation of recycling existing partitions. It has two virtual HDDs: sda is 20gb split over boot/root/home, sdb has a single 256mb swap partition.
      - Using option to install updates, but not option to install 3rd party software.
      A 20gb drive divided into three paritions is also a likely source of any issues you are having. Assuming a small boot partition (why have one, it isn't necessary) of 100/200mb, and at least half or more allotted for /home, that leaves a root partition of less than 10gb. As you opted to download updates during installation, that alone might be the 'root' of your problems; root partition may not be big enough. I never opt to download updates during a new installation. I install first, reboot, perform a system update check followed by a system dist-upgrade, another reboot, and then add any desired third-party repositories.
      Windows no longer obstructs my view.
      Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
      "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

      Comment


        #4
        1. Live DVD logs into desktop automatically, with no "try or install" pop-up. The 16.04 docs still show the pop-up, so something is wrong here.
        - Desktop folder containing the installer icon is so small that it hides the icon and text, and also can't be resized.
        Plasma 5 is now using as default 'Press and hold widgets to move them and reveal their handles'

        You could click the desktop widget and keep pressing until the handles are shown or right click the desktop



        Desktop settings > Tweaks > Uncheck the Widget Handling.



        Scale the Desktop Folder.




        The tiny Desktop Folder is a Kubuntu bug and should be filed to the Launchpad: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting
        Try Me !

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by LinkBot View Post
          Plasma 5 is now using as default 'Press and hold widgets to move them and reveal their handles'

          You could click the desktop widget and keep pressing until the handles are shown or right click the desktop



          Desktop settings > Tweaks > Uncheck the Widget Handling.



          Scale the Desktop Folder.




          The tiny Desktop Folder is a Kubuntu bug and should be filed to the Launchpad: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting
          Worst decision ever. Totally undiscoverable.
          Plasma 5 look&feel for KDE4: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php...content=166438

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by schnelle View Post
            Worst decision ever. Totally undiscoverable.
            Some intrepid user reported this for this exact reason. marked as resolved lol

            I only see one other similar bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359220 so either no one is reporting this or most people are figuring it out on their own just fine ?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by claydoh View Post
              Some intrepid user reported this for this exact reason. marked as resolved lol

              I only see one other similar bug https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359220 so either no one is reporting this or most people are figuring it out on their own just fine ?
              In last few months, I saw people asking about it on kubuntu forums, kubuntu irc, kubuntu-devel mailing list, manjaro forums. And they all agree it has no logic at all! Why we still have lock/unclock widgets then?

              Todays new thread: https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...-fully-working
              Plasma 5 look&feel for KDE4: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php...content=166438

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by claydoh View Post
                1gb ram is possibly the root cause of a few of your issues. 2gb is the minimum I'd recommend . the desktop gui and the installer and the package updates during the install are all run and stored in ram. When that quickly runs out the agonizingly slow swap is used to augment memory.

                Quirks of running a vm are always a likely source of issues that you may not experience on a normal install.

                The updater tray notification is fixed actually but that as well as very major updates to plasma et al are stuck in a build queue waiting for someone in Ubuntu ok'ing the couple of dependencies needed to proceed (or for us to poke whoever it is needing to be asked)

                I've never seen nor heard of number 5 before.

                sent from my LG V10 using Tapatalk
                Regarding memory, I suspected that 2GB might be the practical minimum nowadays. Something else I noticed that I thought was odd: after starting to leave `htop` open in the corner was that it showed nearly half the RAM as cached (yellow) rather than in use, quite consistently (and remember that swap was full). I don't know enough about memory management to know whether the data you mention is stored in such a way that makes this happen, or whether memory and swap aren't being used optimally.

                In any case, I think this needs to be stated explicitly on the download and installation pages. Linux Mint even states its requirements at the beginning of the installation process, in case the the user had missed them up to that point.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Snowhog View Post
                  A 20gb drive divided into three paritions is also a likely source of any issues you are having. Assuming a small boot partition (why have one, it isn't necessary) of 100/200mb, and at least half or more allotted for /home, that leaves a root partition of less than 10gb. As you opted to download updates during installation, that alone might be the 'root' of your problems; root partition may not be big enough. I never opt to download updates during a new installation. I install first, reboot, perform a system update check followed by a system dist-upgrade, another reboot, and then add any desired third-party repositories.
                  This might not have been clean in the original post, but I partitioned the virtual hard disk this way (300mb boot, 10gb root, 10gb home) in the first place for testing purposes, same as with reusing the disk. I know that a boot partition is not needed here. I've been bitten enough times to be wary of unpredicted problems stemming from these sorts of configuration issues that I like to see what they do in a VM before trying on a real machine.

                  As for the size issue, the root partition was somewhere around 5/10GB after installation (not near that computer at the moment), which is in line with past experience with Ubuntu and KDE. I'm not sure I understand your hypothesis though. The size of the root partition never changed, so the installation should never have succeeded if it wasn't big enough. Nor should it have stalled at 0%. It should have gone for a while and then died complaining that the disk is full (both in the sense of behavior and presenting information to the user).

                  Related to this, if installing updates during installation is so flaky that it's not recommended, shouldn't the feature be presented with such a warning?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by LinkBot View Post
                    ...
                    The tiny Desktop Folder is a Kubuntu bug and should be filed to the Launchpad: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting
                    Thanks, I'll do that.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by khanson679 View Post
                      Thanks, I'll do that.
                      You can just add yourself to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...s/+bug/1560404

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by khanson679 View Post
                        Regarding memory, I suspected that 2GB might be the practical minimum nowadays. Something else I noticed that I thought was odd: after starting to leave `htop` open in the corner was that it showed nearly half the RAM as cached (yellow) rather than in use, quite consistently (and remember that swap was full). I don't know enough about memory management to know whether the data you mention is stored in such a way that makes this happen, or whether memory and swap aren't being used optimally.

                        In any case, I think this needs to be stated explicitly on the download and installation pages. Linux Mint even states its requirements at the beginning of the installation process, in case the the user had missed them up to that point.
                        Kubuntu is the only KDE distribution that runs Plasma 5 for me in a 1GB VM or on my 1GB netbook without endless disk thrashing. It does give warnings during live usage about low memory, but it does run.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mparillo View Post

                          Done.
                          Last edited by khanson679; Apr 16, 2016, 06:56 PM. Reason: Added missing quote.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by mparillo View Post
                            Kubuntu is the only KDE distribution that runs Plasma 5 for me in a 1GB VM or on my 1GB netbook without endless disk thrashing. It does give warnings during live usage about low memory, but it does run.
                            And this is a great thing, but it doesn't do much good if you can't install it. Not everyone is going to a have a pre-existing swap partition that they want to keep as-is, or know to make a new one and activate it before starting the installer.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Update: I've installed 16.04 Beta on modern physical hardware and had some of the same problems as with the limited resource VM. Now doing some more tests, and should be able to post the results in a day or so.

                              Comment

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