If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

[dibl]

First, I would like to say a hearty THANK YOU OPEN SOURCE! This forum is the best-organized Linux forum that I have seen -- certainly far cleaner than Ubuntu -- they should take a clue from your Forum!

OK, now to the suggestions. This comes from the "To Learn, Compare" school of improvement. The only new/additional features that I have found that should be seriously considered are found on Mepislovers forum here:

http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/index.php

That is one ugly forum, visually -- at least I think so -- I don't recommend their "look and feel". However, there are two gems buried in there:

1. They have implemented a method of "Thanking" a poster who provides truly useful information that helps someone. The user name of the "thanker" shows up under the post that was thanked.

2. They use the number of thanks, in proportion to the total number of posts, to calculate a "reputation" value that shows in the user's profile, along with their total posts and total thanks. I don't have the exact formula, but I'll bet one could get it by politely asking. So a poster's reputation number actually reflects forum community feedback on the value of the that person's posts.

I personally find that this technique does two useful/effective things:

1. It reinforces "helping behavior".

2. It discourages non-helpful posts, but not in a vicious way. Making a useless post simply waters down the reputation number, so you need to think twice about it, if you care.

Those are my suggestions. As always, I am happy to accept the community's collective preference regarding the Forum and its features.

dibl

[MoonRise]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

I remember OS having something similar to this. I think it was called Kudos? Don't know what happened with it.

[dibl]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

I think there was some objection to "kudos" because there was no attribution -- anyone could give anyone kudos anonymously, IIRC. The system I'm suggesting shows who thanked whom, and for what.

[MoonRise]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

Ahhh. My bad. I understand

[Qqmike]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

Hi dibl. You and I usually agree on many things, but maybe not on this one.
However, if that is the case, it wouldn't be your specific suggestion I differ with. It's scoring systems in general, applied to human “performance,” that I have through the decades failed to see anything truly meaningful in.

Capturing—in a mathematician's sense—a meaningful “measure” is an illusive proposition, at best. And, it may take the fun out of this! I do see something you've mentioned that I've noticed here: it sure would seem that some members have made lots of useless (zero-information content) posts that have had the effect of increasing their “post” count! (Some “social” back-and-forth and human-interest postings are desirable though for adding a personal/human touch to what we do here.) Another thing I've noticed is Ubuntu's Thanked system. Can you make heads or tails out of that? I can't. I can see no meaningful message or pattern in how folks are scored over there. There's top guns who have none-to-low thanked scoring!

Having been a college prof and business consultant (and, as you know other things), geez, I'm real skeptical of scoring systems for many/most human activities (though, to prevent a state of anarchy, I might agree they are sometimes, context-specific, necessary; and if you happen to be a consultant, there's big bucks in mastering various scoring systems). So often, misdirected people make a superficial goal out of playing the scores as an end in itself. I think the game would become just that: a game meaningful mainly to those that, well, play such games!

One way or the other, doesn't matter to me, either way. But I tend to get uncomfortable either scoring others or being scored. And I can't help but notice—as I'm sure all of you have—that many of our most technically competent, sincere and successful Linux folks are also rather reticent, to themselves, careful in posting, reserved, whatever & however you wish to label them--”conservative” might best describe their participation. Another scoring scheme probably is not going to enhance their sense of membership and participation.

Before further efforts to structure the formative * process * in Linux, I'd like to see more out-right, tangible, measurable, in-your-face success with the basic Linux product (the distro), starting with fewer developmental glitches, and showing up in greater market share of users.


(Did I take your subject too seriously here? )


EDIT: After reading your Reply #2, the idea does make better sense, but I'd still go down with a vote against (I think, probably).

[Qqmike]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

Hey MoonRise, how the HECK did I fall 6 posts behind you?! We were tied at one point yesterday.

[Snowhog]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

A feature I'd like to see (if it is even possible) would be an option to view the Forum in a Tree View (split screen) mode.

Main Kubuntu Forums "Tree"

+Announcements
+Documentation
+Help the New Guy
+Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon
+Kubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn
+Kubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake (LTS)
+Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron (in development)
+Previous Kubuntu Releases
+Desktop Support
+Everything Else
.
.
.

(clicking on Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon)
Kubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon
+Installation and Boot
+Software Support
.
.
.

(clicking on Installation and Boot)
Installation and Boot
Installing from hard drive
Add kubuntu to XP's boot.ini
Problem with update
KDE4 questions
.
.
.

[dibl]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

It's scoring systems in general, applied to human “performance,” that I have through the decades failed to see anything truly meaningful in.

Actually, we are probably in violent agreement on that point, Mike. I don't know if you were referring specifically to Alfie Kohn's "Punished By Rewards" book, but I also don't believe in any kind of manipulative rewarding schemes.

I'm suggesting simply a thanking scheme -- to encourage the common courtesy that your mother taught you way back when. I also perceive a desire on the part of noobs to try to get a handle on the "quality" of help that they get, and this seems to do a little of that, IMHO.

However, I will reiterate that I will remain happily in the community whether others agree with my suggestion or not.

[MoonRise]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

Hey MoonRise, how the HECK did I fall 6 posts behind you?! We were tied at one point yesterday.

I've been helping one particular fellow with a problem. Not going so well either.

noobs to try to get a handle on the "quality" of help that they get

I agree to that, but the how is the elusive part. I'll stay mum on this. I tend to get "passionate" about things of that nature and always end up looking like an @#$.

[Open Source]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

I like your thinking, but wonder how it would work implementing something of that sort at this time. A new user may join the forum today and make 10 posts, 5 of which he is thanked for. So he has a 50% success rate of helping someone out. Then take Moonrise for example who has 12xx posts at this time. Let's say he posts a 100 posts today and all 100 reply "recipients" thank him for his work. Well, he will go down as having a success rate around 8%.

If someone knew how to set up the math so that it is fair for both new members and old members that may make a difference, however I don't see how that would be possible. I suppose it may take some extra work, but we could base it on a week by week (or month by month) basis and a user will get a new score each week. So one week, someone may have a high score from being very helpful ("Super Appreciated"), however the next week he is on vacation, and so doesn't post. This results in no thanks being given and he will be labeled poorly ("Not Helpful" or "Average User").

Let me know if anybody thinks of a feasible and worthwhile way to create this system. I like the idea, just not sure how and if it should be implemented.

[Snowhog]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

Again, not knowing if it's possible with the software used to run KFN, or even if, how it would be implemented, but as 'an alternative,' how about rating posted topics instead? This removes the positive/negative aspect of rating individual posters, and instead assigns a value to the posted topic itself.

Of course, comparative 'value' of this (or any other rating system) depends on users actually recording their vote, and even under the old Kudo's system, most didn't.

In part, this ability is already built into KFN in the form of the Polls that a member is able to start. As I visualize this, each reply to a Topic would have two poll buttons available to the poster - "This thread was helpful" "This thread was not helpful"
By default, neither button would be selected, and if a poster chose not to choose either one, then the reply would be recorded as "neutral"

Each posted topic would then be tabulated based on the number of replies. Each posted topic would display the rating as a percentage for the three categories, to be displayed as (+), Neutral, (-). A typical disply would look something like this:

Kubuntu Forums | Newbie Support | Help the New Guy
_________________________________________________
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 240
_________________________________________________
Subject (+) Neutral (-)
_________________________________________________
Adept Manager problems 93% 2% 5%
_________________________________________________
Black screen and command prompt 87% 0% 12%
_________________________________________________

Space concerns on the page, are of course, a real issue. This concept could be modified to emphasize only the positive value of any topic, by calculating and displaying only the positive percentage.

Okay, that's my contribution to the suggestion.

[RJ Hythloday]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

1. They have implemented a method of "Thanking" a poster who provides truly useful information that helps someone. The user name of the "thanker" shows up under the post that was thanked.

2. They use the number of thanks, in proportion to the total number of posts, to calculate a "reputation" value that shows in the user's profile, along with their total posts and total thanks. I don't have the exact formula, but I'll bet one could get it by politely asking. So a poster's reputation number actually reflects forum community feedback on the value of the that person's posts.

I personally find that this technique does two useful/effective things:

1. It reinforces "helping behavior".

2. It discourages non-helpful posts, but not in a vicious way. Making a useless post simply waters down the reputation number, so you need to think twice about it, if you care.

Those are my suggestions. As always, I am happy to accept the community's collective preference regarding the Forum and its features.

dibl

I'd thank you for this post, if it was an option :lol:

I dl mint kde to try, but this forum really makes me want to just stick w/ kubuntu.

Really looking forward to 8.10

[Fintan]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

Strangely enough I can see the logic behind all of these arguments but I have to agree with both mike and OS.

Having said that, how about this so we can all bathe in our ego and give new members a sort of idea who has been helpfull:
Introduce a function such as "solved by" or "thanks to" so that the originator of a thread can thank or mention the people that helped solve a problem.

The results of this system would then be reproduced under the avatar of every member.

Obviously the system starts at 0, depends on the willingness to say "thank you" and is not mandatory.

Is it nescesairy? Maybe. I don't believe in grading either but also as a former and in a lot of respects still newbe and being extremly egoistical I take comfort in the "knowledge" that the person answering my question "sort of" knows what he /she is talking about

[Qqmike]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

If we work hard at this, we can make it so complicated that it bears little connection to any real, perceptible, meaningful behavior.

Just a few, off the top of my head this morning:
Numbers are not measures (in the sense of measure theory);
Participation is always voluntary;
Credit and partial credits often belong to more than one helper in a thread (and the very, smallest detail contributed by one helper in a lengthy thread may be the real trick that solves the problem);
Relative vs absolutes;
Averages; variances; scores as a function of time;
Subjective vs objective;
Some helpers are only potential helpers and choose to watch until their special expertise is really needed, then they jump in with really useful insights (quality vs quantity);

These are classic issues in any human endeavor where people are trying to assign numbers to non-quantifiable things.

[RJ Hythloday]

Re: If any future enhancements are being contemplated ....

It would really be good if there was a huge reminder when a noob starts a thread asking them to come back and edit the title w/ [solved] once they get their answer. I know I still forget sometimes.