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**tomcloyd** · Dec 22, 2008, 01:36 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Yeah, I know. I agree - about the maintenance problem. And the time problem. I thought I'd put this together for myself, but in a public place, where others could join if, if they wish. I know there are errors. Aside from being incomplete (I'll be returning to it today), I haven't give it a thorough read-through, so there are surely some real editing problems. That's how it is when you work on a public wiki.

I'm going to post dates, and people can be warned re: the problem of currency.

I'm doing this because this is my effort to create a truly portable system I can take with me to a relative's house for a week. It's already taken a couple of full days time I didn't see coming. Aggravating, but that's how computers are, yes? I'd swear about it, but I've already tried that, and it didn't help.

Thanks for your thoughts. (and i'll fix the errors you pointed out- that grub error is simply an oversight).

**toad** · Dec 22, 2008, 11:47 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Two days 'fore Christmas, my true love gave to me - a usb stick and a wiki for all to see

Okay, so I'd better stick to my day job. But seriously, Tom. The wiki idea is a good one for a number of reasons, some, but not all of which you mentioned above. And yes, writing a good piece of text is serious work.

Guess why the rest of us have stuck to how tos on this forum

**tomcloyd** · Dec 23, 2008, 03:35 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Well, I'm really learning a few things about this flash drive Kubuntu trick - and they're going in the wiki.

1. The damn thing is fragile. If in any way it does not quit normally, and I have to push the power button to force a shutdown, I MUST reboot into Safe Graphics mode (which has NO persistence features at all, and cannot even SEE the casper-rw partition), and then just go to normal termination. That's all you need to do to recovery. I then can resume booting as one would normally expect to do.

But wait...there's MORE. This recovery trick is ONLY possible with the manually constructed grub boot version. That blasted usb-creator version just goes bad and stays bad.

And NEVER pull the thing out until power's down. It appears to need to write something to it at the last minute. If it cannot, you've blown it, and its time to boot into Safe Graphics mode again.

2. You can really do a lot with it. I've installed Firefox, and jEdit, and ruby and I'm setting up to get real work done, on the road. I will take my USB hard drive 'cause it can easily access file on that as well. Very powerful.

BTW, why in blazes would we NOT expect my USB hard drive, on which is sitting my normal Kubuntu install, simply to boot up when plugged into, say , my sister's laptop. Why is this different than keeping it where it is, and just switching out...the keyboard, the screen, the mouse, or whatever? If I did those things with my home desktop, which is where my USB HD usually lives, I wouldn't expect problems.

Please look at this - "10 things Linux does better than OS X" - #6 - Portability. What do you think?

**andybleaden** · Dec 23, 2008, 03:45 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Originally posted by toad

Two days 'fore Christmas, my true love gave to me - a usb stick and a wiki for all to see

Okay, so I'd better stick to my day job. But seriously, Tom. The wiki idea is a good one for a number of reasons, some, but not all of which you mentioned above. And yes, writing a good piece of text is serious work.

Guess why the rest of us have stuck to how tos on this forum

Well I just bought a new usb stick from play. com that was 16gb...fancy the fun I can have with that ...it was less than a £1 a gig

**tomcloyd** · Dec 23, 2008, 04:05 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

16GB? Hm. Well, I haven't run out of space with my 4 GB, and besides, if I do, I'll just plug another, or, like I said, access my USB HD. The problem is space, but speed, and inability to update the OS. Speed, mostly. It creeps, but by jove it does work.

Hey, anyone knows what happens if I respond to the urging I keep getting to update the thing (Adept updater doing its job)? I tried it a bit a while back, and it appeared to grind to a halt. Was probably working away, but like I said, it's SLOW. I'm thinking it might update stuff OK, but it wouldn't presist, or it might freeze when it tried to update the OS and couldn't, or maybe it'd just trigger an alien invasion. Can you tell I really don't know

**toad** · Dec 23, 2008, 04:36 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

BTW, why in blazes would we NOT expect my USB hard drive, on which is sitting my normal Kubuntu install, simply to boot up when plugged into, say , my sister's laptop. Why is this different than keeping it where it is, and just switching out...the keyboard, the screen, the mouse, or whatever? If I did those things with my home desktop, which is where my USB HD usually lives, I wouldn't expect problems.

Are you rephrasing reply #11 and #19 from here http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3100253.0 ? Those are my thoughts exactly

**andybleaden** · Dec 23, 2008, 04:52 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Originally posted by tomcloyd

16GB? Hm. Well, I haven't run out of space with my 4 GB, and besides, if I do, I'll just plug another,

nah I just needed another pen drive as I had one for moving stuff about between work etc and I wanted one I could play about with this live pen drive thing and keep it persistent...plus it was the same price I paid for the 4gb one when I bought it and er um well..ok it was gb envy

It does mean I can mess about with this adept updating thing however run into the buffers with using this at work on my work pc as the wi fi and internet sits behind a proxy here which is a pain in the rear end.

I get a brilliant kubuntu on my work pc...I can access my work emails as it is on the internal (approved) system but no other out of proxy sites (boo!)

ANy ideas ??

Tried to change the proxy settings but to no avail

**Qqmike** · Dec 23, 2008, 05:08 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Tom -- you mentioned "fragile."
Yes, it can be. But there's a way to be safe:

See my Replies #17 & 18 above.
And this previous bug report explains the issues:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s.../?loggingout=1

>To be safe< I never eject the flash drive when prompted to do so after choosing Restart from the K-menu.
Instead, I re-boot the PC, when I see the message to eject and press Enter, I do not eject but I do press Enter (sometimes more than once), then enter BIOS setup (on my Intel I press F2 to do that as the PC is rebooting) and in BIOS setup, I remove the flash drive and make sure my boot-order looks right to boot back into a hard drive.

Tom, this is in response to what you said:
1. The damn thing is fragile. If in any way it does not quit normally, and I have to push the power button to force a shutdown, I MUST reboot into Safe Graphics mode (which has NO persistence features at all, and cannot even SEE the casper-rw partition), and then just go to normal termination. That's all you need to do to recovery. I then can resume booting as one would normally expect to do.
But wait...there's MORE. This recovery trick is ONLY possible with the manually constructed grub boot version. That blasted usb-creator version just goes bad and stays bad.
And NEVER pull the thing out until power's down. It appears to need to write something to it at the last minute. If it cannot, you've blown it, and its time to boot into Safe Graphics mode again.

**DeathKitten** · Dec 24, 2008, 03:24 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Originally posted by Qqmike

Extract files from an .iso.
Access your iso files without burning the CD

Download the iso file to the Desktop. (If it's a tar.gz file or similar, you get the iso by right-click, Extract Here, or by using ARK under K > Applications > Utilities > Archiving Tool (ARK.).)
Actual example, let's say the file name is kubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso and it's on my Desktop:
/home/mike/Desktop/ kubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso.

# Make a directory /mnt/test for your mount point
mkdir /mnt/test
# Mount the iso
sudo mount -t iso9660 -o loop /home/mike/Desktop/kubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso /mnt/test
# Y ou can also change directories (cd /mnt/test) and list (ls) the files to see what's there
# Next, copy the GRUB files /boot/grub to a folder that will be created and called new_grub, say under /tmp
cp -R /mnt/test/boot/grub/ /tmp/new_grub
# Now change the ownership so mike can have these files and then unmount it
chown -R mike:mike /tmp/new_grub
# Unmount /test
sudo umount /mnt/test
# If you have to invoke root, use sudo (as I have above, when it was necessary).
# Open your file manager and go to /tmp/new_grub, where you can see /new_grub and its files
# Experts may want to copy /grub directly into /media/kubuntu810.

Okay, so I bought myself a 16GB flash drive just for this project, and I go to start at it without having to burn a CD, and I run into a problem. Am I doing something wrong here?

Code:

goddess@nilpferd:~$ sudo mkdir /mnt/test
[sudo] password for goddess:
goddess@nilpferd:~$ sudo mount -t iso9660 -o loop /home/goddess/Documents/kubuntu-
kubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso kubuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso
kubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso kubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso
goddess@nilpferd:~$ sudo mount -t iso9660 -o loop /home/goddess/Documents/kubuntu-8.10-desktop-i386.iso /mnt/test
goddess@nilpferd:~$ cd /mnt/test/
goddess@nilpferd:/mnt/test$ ls
autorun.inf dists  isolinux  pics preseed       ubuntu   wubi.exe
casper    install md5sum.txt pool README.diskdefines umenu.exe
goddess@nilpferd:/mnt/test$ cd
goddess@nilpferd:~$ cp -R /mnt/test/boot/grub/  /tmp/new_grub
cp: cannot stat `/mnt/test/boot/grub/': No such file or directory

Suggestions, observations, and slaps upside the head for stupidity are all welcomed and encouraged.

**Qqmike** · Dec 24, 2008, 03:58 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Death Kitten, Sorry about that. You are correct -- there are NO grub files in that iso. This was an error on my TODO to correct soon. You are the first to test it (good for you).

When I wrote this, I was thinking of something else (briefly: an OS on an iso that also had--on that iso--the Super Grub Disk files, from which one can take grub).

Sorry about that -- but it was some good practice for you, right?

. You gotta burn the iso & install or get the grub files from /boot/grub inside some hard disk OS somewhere.

**DeathKitten** · Dec 24, 2008, 04:28 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Okay, I have 8.04 installed right now. My plan was to get the live flash drive up and running with kubuntu 8.10 before doing my upgrade in Adept, that way I didn't have to waste a CD on the install disc and I'd still have a backup in case the Adept based upgrade screws up. Is there any way I can still do this project with the /boot/grub from my 8.04 install, or do I need to find another source for those files if I wish to avoid burning a CD?

**Qqmike** · Dec 24, 2008, 09:23 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

@Death Kitten,

I didn't have time (yet) to test it fully, but you might try the grub files from a Super Grub Disk iso.
The CD ROM 0.9774 from here:
http://forjamari.linex.org/frs/?group_id=61

The /boot/grub files are there.
You will see a bunch of GRUB files in /boot/grub; that's because adrian15 has modified grub for various purposes. Should not be a problem for what we need (it is more than we need, actually).
You might try those grub files in the USB flash drive and make sure the UFD will boot OK.
When I get time (not tonight), I'll try also.
I can't imagine any reason that grub will not work just fine here.

Get the iso and apply my how-to on extracting the files w/o burning, then rig up some copy statements to get the grub out.
OR, actually, after mounting the iso using the statement:
sudo mount -t iso9660 -o loop /home/mike/Desktop/super_grub_disk_0.9774.iso /media/test
you can open Konqueror or Dolphin and go to /media/test in GUI and see the files and drag-n-drop whatever.
To open Konqueror as root:
kdesudo konqueror
or
kdesudo dolphin

Looks like a piece of cake either by CLI or by GUI -- no CD burning.

**DeathKitten** · Dec 24, 2008, 11:50 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

Okay, I'll play with that soonish.

Question for you though. Your tutorials say use ext3 for the file system, however while poking my nose around the forum for other things today, I came upon this thread: Top Kubuntu FAQs & Answers and found the recommendation to use ext2 instead, because it's less likely to wear out the drive as quickly. (See FAQ #5) Also linked was this page: Tips for running Linux on a flash drive. Do know about any of the suggestions they make on that page, and what I'm more likely to want to be concerned about, especially given that I'm working with a 16gb drive that's intended to be my computer away from home?

I'm intending this drive, once I get it working correctly, to be a way for me to borrow my boyfriend's Apple laptop and be comfortable using it. While Apple makes good products, he's customized so much of the interface on it, and it is so different than what I'm used to, I'd rather just have my happy fun kubuntu to play under. Add in the cool factor of being able to leave my personal files on the drive and be able to run about and use pretty much anyone's computer how I want to, and I just couldn't resist the idea of it.

**Qqmike** · Dec 25, 2008, 08:58 AM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

The first thing that comes to mind is that you should always have a backup of any important data and/or use a second data flash drive along with your main OS flash drive.
One type of backup strategy is to simply clone the stick (as explained in my how-to using dd commands).

About flash drive wearout, much of that is opinion. I'm not aware of hard studies proving details about wearout using actual flash drives (versus theoretical talk). I know users who claim it's not an issue for them, and they use their live stick all the time, for two years and running. I know one reliable, credible source who had dinner with an Intel-tech manager who told my source that wearout is not at all an issue, that the flash drive should last a very long time, and not to worry, and to find something else to worry about. Of course, any of these devices is subject to normal degradation, errors, damage, and plain old "wearing out" (like the mechanical stuff in them, the metal port connector, etc.). Look at the failure rates of hard disk drives as they age--everyone knows someone who has it happen every now and then. As for the cyrius link, well, that's pretty technical stuff; and he admits there are trade-offs (see his comment/caution at the very end). You might experiment with some/all/combinations of those things until you drive yourself nuts; even then, how do you setup the experiment, measurements, and assess results?

As for ext3, I started using it because it fixed that nasty bug in 8.04 that many of us had. Another expert here, K0LO, advised me to try it, and it worked for me. Journaling does have a cost--writes--but it also has benefits--safety of the filesystem. Frankly, maybe ext2 is OK. Even more frankly, I really don't know and I don't know how any one else can definitively know (w/o more actual--not theoretical--evidence/studies). I use ext3 and clone my flash drives and maintain the clone up to date and backup important data (to other flash drives or CDs etc.).

Maybe you might post the wearout question in the forum somewhere (under Linux Other?) just to see the kind of opinions you get and if anyone has knowledge of recent actual studies/evidence.

I made some comments about wearout under Puppy on a UFD in my how-to here:
How To Make GRUB Thumb Drive
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3081748.0
Puppy Linux on USB Flash Drive (UFD) Reply #9.
(toward the end of that; BUT I'm nor sure what to believe now)

However, at this time, I personally am not concerned about the issues. But, YMMV.

**Qqmike** · Dec 25, 2008, 04:22 PM

Re: Build a LIVE Kubuntu Flash Drive, How-To

re: the grub from SGD iso
I tested it and it works fine.

Details:
I had an existing 7.10 Live Persistent flash drive, I removed its grub files, installed the grub files from the SGD download I posted above (0.9774), modified the menu.lst (as indicated in the how-to Reply #54), and it worked fine.

Of course, to get the grub copied from the SGD download iso, you have two choices: to burn the iso to a CD or to access the iso files using the method in Reply #54. Either one works. And you can work at GUI or CLI.

------------------------

Personal TODO:
I need to clean up the how-to in Reply #54 to cover all the cases GUI, CLI, iso vs live CDs, and the grub issue.
Am working on it and will post soon in the next day or two (testing takes most of the time).
Sorry about this mix up w/grub; however, thanks to you Death Kitten for getting me to fix this once and for all

Of course, the how-to works, and the material IS basically all there, as many of you have tested, but pedagogically, it's a mess.

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