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    #1

    Firefox snaps (pfft) v. software distrib -

    So , you want to force Debian's packaging on Arch , Fedora, Suse, and everyone else not using a Debian-based distro.......??
    YES! YES! I do. I do not see that as comically as you do. RPM (pfft pft pfft!) is garbage.

    What Linux as a whole needs is ONE PACKAGE SYSTEM for EVERY ONE. And, that 100% YES SHOULD BE DEB! It works better. AND 100% that MOST ASSUREDLY Is NOT snaps! EVER!

    snaps (pft!) flatpak (pft) have a good intention, one distribution among many distros, and solving issues with dependencies... GREAT IDEA! Lets do it! VIA DEB's!

    We don't need Yet Another Package System... clearly as I posted are issues in re DEB creation lets put that development effort into resolving them.

    I know the mindset of what created snaps... and honestly some people need to put their stupid phones down, and learn how computing started, before they decide to overturn all the carts. And nope I knew where you will one that. YES! I am throwing the garbage out, RPM, just like it should have been decades ago.

    Software distribution has tripped up Linux adoption en masse by the average user because of software distribution. I am all for making it easier to install things, DEBS do that 99.9999% RPM, puhlease. Been there I don't need those nightmares. You like nightmares, enjoy! *buntu and other Linux's should have started to wipe the floor with winslopper 10 and 11. It doesn't because of software distribution. Other issues in regards to certain software is also a major issue, but certain entities which fiddle with formats to intentionally break ODS, etc.. is beyond snaps. v. DEBs.

    After spending a great deal of personal capital,blood and treason on LINUX CONVERSION and ban/removal of all things RH and m$... I do not like where things are headed... and honestly my Linux journey may be coming to a point where the boat docks. And the river flows on... as snaps and something else are not something I intend to deal with. I've had enough of reinstalling just the basic tools which should be on the ISO to start, ie: net-tools, but that debate has raged many decades.. I can still remember these discussion in the Knoppix forums on CD v. DVD...

    None of this is likely to happen. So 10 years from now clicks will be there to replace snaps! Same with some other things... We ain't going to agree on this, as I don't agree with most of the viewpoints around here.

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    #2
    Come on! Don't hold back, tell us what you really think!

    I agree with you about RPM, but software distribution isn't what is holding Linux back. It is the illegal monopoly that Microsoft that forces the OEM's to install Windows on all of their machines. Some vendors have broken out of that mold but most haven't. Joe and Sally Sixpack having to download an ISO, burn it to a CDROM or USB stick, and then boot from that device to install Linux has held many of them back from using Linux, but that hurdle is being over come. Another hurdle is some people's insane insistence on using Microsoft applications when equal or better applications for the same task exist in FOSS. That myopia will never be overcome as long as people refuse to look at the alternatives.

    However, overall, during the last 10-15 years, Microsoft's OS monopoly has dropped from 95%+ to around 30%.
    A good indicator for the desktop & laptop market share can be found here.
    Windows: 39.1%
    Linux: 53.5%
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.
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      #3
      Glad to see that Jammy LTS now has its own subforum.
      The daily updates for the distribution have been fairly large lately (100-130 files).
      Kubuntu 24.11 64bit under Kernel 6.12.3, Hp Pavilion, 6MB ram. Stay away from all things Google...
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        #4
        Nice rant but Arch does not use RPM. There are ways to install RPM and DEBs if you want to, but I never had the need.
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          #5
          I've used alien in the past. Wow. Memories.
          Windows no longer obstructs my view.
          Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
          "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes​
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            #6
            So , you want to force Debian's packaging on Arch , Fedora, Suse, and everyone else not using a Debian-based distro.......??
            IMO that would have been a good idea, 10 to 15 years ago. Lots of distros went on for years without proper dependency management, and building software on them often meant guessing the libraries needed, from hints in the INSTALL or README files, and by trial and error, but on debian-derived distros "sudo apt-get build-dep" and you're away. It was like people on non-debian distros were blissfully unaware how simple it was for us, or maybe I was only exposed to those floundering in the dark.

            Anyway, they gradually worked it out, and the case for making APT universal is now weak IMO.
            Regards, John Little
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              #7
              My take on this FF snap/flatpak issue with respect to FF only is quite different and it is not about packaging. From an Ubuntu POV, they are not simply eliminating a cost center, they are transferring CONTROL to Mozilla. Mozilla will do the upgrades whenever and however they want. My guess is Mozilla thinks they can provide a better product if they can control libraries themselves across the board. Back in the day, Opera used to do that, too. Most of its essential libraries were statically linked.

              Of course, I could be wrong or Mozilla fails to deliver, we'll see.
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                #8
                You don't need any package system to use firefox. You can just download it and run from a folder.
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                  #9
                  I have found no real difference in the snap Firefox package and that downloaded from Mozzila. So I'm happy with the default. If snap will be the go to packaging system is yet to be determined. So time will tell. So far Jammy is looking good.
                  Last edited by Snowhog; Apr 05, 2022, 07:52 AM. Reason: fix typo
                  Dave Kubuntu 20.04 Registered Linux User #462608

                  Wireless Script: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...5#post12350385
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by kc1di View Post
                    I have found no real difference in the snap Firefox package and that downloaded from Mozzila. So I'm happy with the default. If snap will be the go to packaging system is yet to be determined. So time will tell. So far Jammy is looking good.
                    Where do you think that the contents of the snap (or flatpak, fwiw) come from ?
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by claydoh View Post

                      Where do you think that the contents of the snap (or flatpak, fwiw) come from ?
                      I know they come from Mozilla. And was just commenting for those that think there is a big difference in snaps and .deb files and Mozilla downloads operationally i find very little if any difference.
                      Love Jammy so far
                      Dave Kubuntu 20.04 Registered Linux User #462608

                      Wireless Script: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...5#post12350385
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                        #12
                        No, its the same thing. Same binaries, libs, etc. (as far as I can tell, at least)
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by kc1di View Post
                          ... commenting for those that think there is a big difference in snaps and .deb files and Mozilla downloads ...
                          From my perspective the start up time on first run with the snap version is ~ 10 times longer, 1 s to 10 s. Annoying.

                          For a lot of people the snap daemon phoning home to closed source servers is a red flag; "operationally i find very little if any difference" till one day your privacy is compromised, and very personal consequences follow. One's search history might be important.
                          Regards, John Little
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                            #14
                            My two cents. Why add more overhead to control and manage and run SNAPs? No mater how theoretically little supposedly on resources, issues will arise in this type scenario. Seen that a million times.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by jlittle View Post

                              From my perspective the start up time on first run with the snap version is ~ 10 times longer, 1 s to 10 s. Annoying.

                              For a lot of people the snap daemon phoning home to closed source servers is a red flag; "operationally i find very little if any difference" till one day your privacy is compromised, and very personal consequences follow. One's search history might be important.
                              Well being I don't use FF on a regular basis I'm not too worried about it. All Browsers are suspect IMHO I currently use Vivaldi most of the time. But I'm under no misconceptions it's any better that FF in the privacy realm. I've heard a lot of good things about Brave but have not played with it much. Stopped using Opera for various reasons about 1 year ago.
                              The Search for the perfect browser goes on
                              Dave Kubuntu 20.04 Registered Linux User #462608

                              Wireless Script: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...5#post12350385
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