Messed up my "network"

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Your resolv.conf file should be populated with something like this:

search yourisp.com
nameserver ip1
nameserver ip2

where ip1 and ip2 are your isp DNS IP addresses.

In the Jaunty box (see post above) I have ip1 & ip2, as I'm almost positive I used to have in the Hardy box resolv.conf. But I don't know what you mean by "search yourisp.com"

I assume you are connecting to this forum via your Windows side.

Nope. On the Hardy box.

Since resolv.conf hasn't change

I think it has, because the datestamp is from when I did all that configuring.

If that gets you an internet connection then use Synaptic to reinstall PPPoE and the dhcpd stuff.

I have the working internet connection on the Hardy box. What no longer works is that the Jaunty box can no longer connect to the Hardy box. However, if it's just a question of editing resolv.conf I'll try that--and keep my fingers crossed it doesn't mess up the internet connection.

But I don't understand the line:

#   DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN

What overwrites it? And if I make the changes by hand, how do I make them permanent?

[oshunluvr]

Re: Messed up my "network"

I don't see why you can't be connected to your modem and ethernet card at the same time. You can't be online and bring up your ethernet card?

But I don't understand the line:

# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN

What overwrites it? And if I make the changes by hand, how do I make them permanent?

Networkmanager and other configuration tools MAY overwrite it if you use them to configure your network. If you're unsure - edit it by hand and then when it's working, make a backup copy in case it happens. They way to make it permanent is to not use those editing tools.

unmanaged switches?

***basically, routers are addressable devices that route your network traffic from one network to another - like from your home network device to the internet through a modem. A switch allows your network devices (ethernet cards) to connect to one another. Most if not all home-type routers include a built-in managed switch.

An addressable device - routers and managed switches - have an IP address and MAC address, have settings that allow you to setup or deny various services, many have built-in firewalls - stuff that that.

Unmanaged switches are not addressable - meaning they don't have a MAC address, don't use an IP address, have no settings at all - no way to control network traffic. Which is perfect for home networks because they require no input from the user - just a good ethernet cable.

I actually have more than one switch one my network because I have devices clustered in more than one area.

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

I don't see why you can't be connected to your modem and ethernet card at the same time. You can't be online and bring up your ethernet card?

Um, I never tried it in that order. I just did. It works.

But I don't understand the line:

# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN

What overwrites it? And if I make the changes by hand, how do I make them permanent?
Networkmanager and other configuration tools MAY overwrite it if you use them to configure your network.

The only editing tool I ever used is Kate or Kwrite. IIRC, network manager in Hardy is buggy and they say to uninstall it. If I understand you correctly, the file will only be overwritten if I use a gui tool/editor?

If you're unsure - edit it by hand and then when it's working, make a backup copy in case it happens. They way to make it permanent is to not use those editing tools.

I edited resolv.conf by hand, but it didn't seem to make any difference. Do I have to stop networking first? Or log out and in? Or (G-d forbid) reboot?

Sorry to be asking such newbie questions.

***basically, routers are addressable devices ...

OMG, I actually understand this! You write geek very well.

I'm getting a good feeling I'm on my way to solving the problem. Thanks for all the help so far.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Messed up my "network"

......
In the Jaunty box (see post above) I have ip1 & ip2, as I'm almost positive I used to have in the Hardy box resolv.conf. But I don't know what you mean by "search yourisp.com"

My resolv.conf file has "search earthlink.net" as the "search" line because Earthlink.net is my Internet Service Provider (ISP).

[

If that gets you an internet connection then use Synaptic to reinstall PPPoE and the dhcpd stuff.

I have the working internet connection on the Hardy box. What no longer works is that the Jaunty box can no longer connect to the Hardy box. However, if it's just a question of editing resolv.conf I'll try that--and keep my fingers crossed it doesn't mess up the internet connection.

But I don't understand the line:

#  DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN

What overwrites it? And if I make the changes by hand, how do I make them permanent?

In a network setup which hasn't been corrupted by manual intervention, when ever your DHCP client requests a lease from your network connection (eth0 or wireless), the ISP supplies an Internet compatible IP address AND a set of Domain Name Service IP addresses which your client uses to AUTOMATICALLY populate the resolv.conf file. IF you have written anything into resolv.conf since your last good link up, it will be erased the next time the DHCP client requests a lease from the DHCPCD (daemon) of your ISP.

When "nameserver 127.0.0.1" or "nameserver 192.168.1.1" appears in your resolv.conf file it is obvious that something is wrong with your setup. To fix it manually and then prevent an override by the dhcpcd you can edit the file as root using kwrite of kate (sudo kwrite /etc/resolv.conf), and the three lines which tell your Internet connection where to look to change domain names into valid IP addresses, save the file, then make the change permanent by doing

sudo chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf

Use "man chattr" in a Konsole to understand what chattr does.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Messed up my "network"

[quote=nodough ]
.....
I edited resolv.conf by hand, but it didn't seem to make any difference. Do I have to stop networking first? Or log out and in? Or (G-d forbid) reboot?

Sorry to be asking such newbie questions.
....
[quote]

Using "sudo service networking restart" in a konsole will restart your networking.

There is no such thing as a dumb question. EVERYONE was a newbie sometime in their life. There are dumb answers, however, regardless of how I try to avoid giving them.

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

My resolv.conf file has "search earthlink.net" as the "search" line because Earthlink.net is my Internet Service Provider (ISP).

Believe it or not, I've been using K/Ubuntu since 5.04, and never seen a line like search [ISP]. Then again, I don't usually screw around with networking

corrupted by manual intervention

I don't know if you intended it, but this made me smile.

... it will be erased the next time the DHCP client requests a lease from the DHCPCD (daemon) of your ISP.

Yup, that's what it did, all right. Now, I know for a fact I've never heard of chattr. And I never had DHCP on this box until I installed it to screw up my networking. And at this point I'm terrified of making things worse. I understand very little of the man page, but the paragraph below is enough to make me need to change my underwear:

A file with the `i' attribute cannot be modified: it cannot be deleted or renamed, no link can be created to this file and no data can be written to the file. Only the superuser or a process possessing the CAP_LINUX_IMMUTABLE capability can set or clear this attribute.

So, before I do permanent and irreparable damage:

a) would it be easier to just uninstall dhcp?

b) how would I undo sudo chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf?

Using "sudo service networking restart" in a konsole will restart your networking.

Oops! In trying to figure things out for myself I used sudo /etc/init.d/networking stop and restart. I hope that was okay. (It seemed to work.)

Thanks for your patience, and the post about newbie questions.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Oops! In trying to figure things out for myself I used sudo /etc/init.d/networking stop and restart. I hope that was okay. (It seemed to work.)

That is the "depreciated" way of restarting the network. I wasn't aware that it was still working, but if it works ...

a) would it be easier to just uninstall dhcp?

If I understand your situation right you sort of between a rock and a hard place. You Jaunty box has no workable Internet connection, so you would be able to only remove software, not add it. You WERE using PPPoE to make a dialup connection, but your dhcp install messed that up and you can't reconnect to the web to do a reinstall of pppoe, pppoeconf and pppstatus. For all the time you've already taken on this problem it might be faster to just boot up your LiveCD and reinstall. But, IF you have a wired connection to the Internet, uninstalling dhcp and dhcpcd, and reinstalling the three I mentioned above would be the fastest thing to do. But, because you were usiing dailup I'd suspect you don't have a wired connection avaiable.

b) how would I undo sudo chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf?

Change the "+i" to "-i"

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

That is the "depreciated" way of restarting the network.

Or maybe just the Hardy way. Part of my problem may have been issuing commands not relevant to my version.

If I understand your situation right ... Jaunty box has no workable Internet connection,

Sorry for the confusion.The Jaunty box has a "workable" connection, but I don't have a second modem for it. I've got one serial/external modem, currently connected to the Hardy box. Switching it from one box to the other is a PITA, because there's little room to manoevre in my cramped apartment. Eventually, I'll be using the Jaunty as my "production" machine, and the Hardy as a backup. I will attach the external modem to the Jaunty box then. But first, I have to get my /home partition (approx. 58G) onto the Jaunty box, for which I need the FTP.

You WERE using PPPoE to make a dialup connection, but your dhcp install messed that up and you can't reconnect to the web to do a reinstall of pppoe, pppoeconf and pppstatus.

I have no idea what I'm using to connect to the web, except KPPP is the frontend. But I'm connecting on the Hardy box--and I did connect on the Jaunty box when I attached the modem to it. I don't know if it will still work, but that's actually no big deal as I can reinstall Jaunty without losing anything important.

To my knowledge, the only thing that isn't working right now is that the Hardy (server) box is refusing FTP connections from the Jaunty (client) box. What I don't know is why, because the machines are pinging. But that resolv.conf file on the Hardy looks like a good bet.

IF you have a wired connection to the Internet...

That's what I thought I had, but

because you were usiing dailup I'd suspect you don't have a wired connection avaiable.

Geez, all these years I thought "wired" meant anything that wasn't wireless, dialup modems included. No wonder things got bu**ered!

Change the "+i" to "-i"

Gosh, that sounds easy. Wonder how I'll manage to mess it up.

I shall try uninstalling dhcp and dhcpcd first. Then if necessary the more drastic stuff. Then, assuming I can still connect to the internet, I'll let you know.

At this point, I'd just like to get my Hardy system back to where it was. If I have to hose the Jaunty, so be it. I shall grit my teeth and carry on regardless.

Thanks again & wish me luck.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Oh, so you can switch an eth cable from your hardy box to the Jaunty one, and it probably gives you an instant Internet connection as well.

Jaunty originally came with KNetworkManger, which has the ability to connect via both a wired (eth cable) and wireless devices. It also came with pppoe, pppoeconf, pppoe-discovery and kppp, to allow for Point-to-Point Protocol Over Ethernet, for DSL type phone connections, and plain old Point-to-Poiint Protocol used for dialups connecting with the classic hayes modem.

KNetworkManger was pretty flaky in Jaunty and Karmic but so far it seems very reilable and easy to use in Lucid.

IF reinstallation becomes you plan you might consider waiting until Kubuntu Lucid goes gold and install it. It is a 3 year support distro.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Quote
because you were usiing dailup I'd suspect you don't have a wired connection avaiable.
Geez, all these years I thought "wired" meant anything that wasn't wireless, dialup modems included.

IMO: Actually - I think technically you're correct. Some many of us are on DSL or Cable hookups, we forget that we're still using a MODEM. The only true "wired" connection to the internet would be a direct connection to the backbone.

We toss the words wired and wireless around in the way we connect to our internet connection. In my house, my "router" from Verizon is actually technically a router, switch, wireless access point and a MODEM. It is "always connected" so I think of it as a "wired" connection. It actually behaves very much like your modem except that the connection is managed by the device's firmware, rather than PPPoE.

I think what GreyGeek meant was an "Always Connected" or "Direct" internet connection, rather than a Manual connection.

If you need info on how to share the internet connection : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...nectionSharing

If your two machines are connected to each other, you should be able to get to the internet with both machines.

Also - there's a file sharing configuration tool available for KDE4 but it's not installed by default. It's called (strangely enough) kdenetwork-filesharing. Install it on both machines along with nfs-common and the dependencies will also be installed.

Then it's simply a matter of selecting the directories you want to share (called "exporting") and mounting them.

You can even have one /home and use it across both machines - but I don't recommend that. In my world - I created a single shared directory on my server called (strangely enough again ) /shared. I then created a subdirectory for music, pictures, videos... you get the idea

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Oh, so you can switch an eth cable from your hardy box to the Jaunty one, and it probably gives you an instant Internet connection as well.

I think what's going on is what oshunluvr talks about in his latest post. My equipment is so primitive you're having a hard time getting your head around it

Each computer has an ethernet card, but I don't have (read: can't afford) high-speed internet. I know people who live in areas so remote they haven't brought the cables out there yet, so they have to use dialup, too.

KNetworkManger was pretty flaky in Jaunty

Hardy, too. Which is why I never used it.

IF reinstallation becomes you plan you might consider waiting until Kubuntu Lucid goes gold and install it. It is a 3 year support distro.

Actually, that is my plan. The Jaunty box is one I recently purchased (used) because the box I was using as an oversized backup drive died. Since the computer comes with a 30-day warranty, I wanted it up & running ASAP. And I had the Jaunty CD, so what the heck. But long-term, my plan is to install Lucid (Mint, maybe for a change) and use this 8-year-old Hardy box as the backup drive.

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Geez, all these years I thought "wired" meant anything that wasn't wireless, dialup modems included.

IMO: Actually - I think technically you're correct.

This is my sense of accomplishment for the day. Thanks.

If you need info on how to share the internet connection : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...nectionSharing

This is the one I used to mess myself up. It would be nice to share the connection while I've got both boxes going--for installing new programs on the Jaunty box. But once the Hardy box becomes my backup drive (see post above) I won't really need it.

Also - there's a file sharing configuration tool available for KDE4

I have to confess, I don't understand what "filesharing" means. I have a fuzzy notion, but no more. However, there's only me here, so there's no one to share any files with.

Then it's simply a matter of selecting the directories you want to share (called "exporting") and mounting them.

Actually, you've just clarified my notion. No, I don't think I'd have any use for it.

I haven't worked up the courage to try all the uninstalling that GreyGeek suggested yet. But I will definitely let you know how it turns out. Just hope I don't have to post from an internet café.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Quote
because you were usiing dailup I'd suspect you don't have a wired connection avaiable.
Geez, all these years I thought "wired" meant anything that wasn't wireless, dialup modems included.

IMO: Actually - I think technically you're correct. Some many of us are on DSL or Cable hookups, we forget that we're still using a MODEM. The only true "wired" connection to the internet would be a direct connection to the backbone.

My general rule, easily violated or forgotten, is that if an IP packet arrives at the back of my computer via a Copper wire then it is a "wired" connection, otherwise it is "wireless". For years a "wired" connection was, to me, a cat 5 ethernet cable coming from some switch or router to the back of my box.

We toss the words wired and wireless around in the way we connect to our internet connection. In my house, my "router" from Verizon is actually technically a router, switch, wireless access point and a MODEM. It is "always connected" so I think of it as a "wired" connection. It actually behaves very much like your modem except that the connection is managed by the device's firmware, rather than PPPoE.

I think what GreyGeek meant was an "Always Connected" or "Direct" internet connection, rather than a Manual connection.

You're reading my mind, oschunluver!

....
If your two machines are connected to each other, you should be able to get to the internet with both machines.
.....

Ten years ago, when I got my first cable Internet connection, they wanted to charge me full rate for each PC connected. My wife and son wanted to connect too, but I didn't think it was right for the cable company to charge me 3X for splitting the single 10mw signal three ways. And, my cable company would dispense only one IP address per modem box.

So, I put a second ethernet card into my desktop, eth1. The cable was hooked to eth0 via DHCP. I set up IPFORWARDING and MASQUERADING, and connected a short piece of cat5 cable from the eth1 card to a Netlink passive router - one in and four out. Cat5 cables connecting the passive router to my wife's and son's PCs completed the network. Except when I stole a lot of the bandwidth downloading a Linux ISO all of us could surf with speeds which felt like each was surfing alone.

The only drawback was that my PC had to be running in order for the other two to have an internet access. Each of the PCs drew between 750 and 1200 watts, depending on what each had on at the time. So, the total power draw was between 2,250 to 3,600 watts per hour!

Now, with two or three laptops connecting via a Linksys WRT54GL wireless router connected to the cable modem, our total power consumption is around 200 to 300 watts, or 1/10th as much.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Messed up my "network"

"File Sharing" simply refers to the sharing files between more than one computer.

In the case of a single user with two computers - some of the benefits:
1.All data files can be accessed from both computers meaning you can have one copy of each file, rather than two or more.
1a. This ensures you always are accessing the latest version of any file.
1b. Hard drive space is conserved (no unnecessary duplicate copies).
1c. All files are available all the time (assuming both computers are on).
1d. Hard drive space for data is increased (see #1b) so you have room for more data.
2. Critical data files are easily duplicated on both computers (this negates #'s 1b and 1d somewhat). This includes your /home directory if you wish.
3. Your temporary directory can be hosted on the computer with the largest free hard drive space. Thus creating more room on the smaller hard drive for programs or data.

For example:
You have 40 music CD's and you want to rip them to your computer so you can listen to music while you work. This is about 15gb of data, but it does need to be backed-up because you can always rip them again. These files reside on one computer but are accessible by the other.

You are working on your complicated tax documents. You save the files to one location so that if you happen to be on the other computer, you can still work on them and they are up-to-date. Since these file are critical - you have the computer that is storing them automatically copy any changed file to the other computer every 5 minutes. There is little chance you'll ever lose more than 5 minutes work and the second copy is immediately available on the other computer if the first computer crashes.

Along with all this you have 120gb of movies but both computers have only 65gb available storage. You split the movies across both computers and still are able to watch them from either.

IF you really want to be kool 8) - you set up both computers with the same OS version (not required but avoids problems) and have your /home duplicated on both computers (like the tax file example above). Then you have the exact same settings and desktops no matter which computer you log onto and when you make a desktop change on one desktop it appears on the other.

If one computer has a really minuscule hard drive - you can still install everything you want - just put the file locations on the other computer.

Believe it or not ALL this can be done with only a few edits.

[nodough]

Re: Messed up my "network"

Hi oshunluvr and GreyGeek:

I've read your latest posts. Although I can see the benefits of file sharing, it'll be a while, I think, till I actually try it. Just not enough room to use a 2nd computer on a regular basis.

After all the psyching up I did to do the uninstalls, it turns out I never had dhcp installed in the first place!

sudo apt-get remove dhcp dhcpcd
Reading state information... Done
Package dhcp is not installed, so not removed
Package dhcpcd is not installed, so not removed

There are a lot of dhcp3 files on my drive, though. But they're libraries and the like.

I took a look at /etc/resolvconf/interface-order and discovered that dnsmasq is there. I installed dnsmasq and ipmasq as per instructions on that HowTo.

# interface-order(5)
lo.inet*
lo.dnsmasq
lo.pdnsd
lo.!(pdns|pdns-recursor)
lo
tun*
tap*
eth*
ath*
wlan*
ppp*
*

So now I'm wondering if I can just uninstall dnsmasq and ipmasq. Or will that break something else?

The reason I'm reluctant to do the chattr thing is, it's not SOP. And if I ever have to go back to the Hardy box, or use its files to configure networking on the Jaunty box, I'll forget I ran that command and mess up yet again.

And--oh joy!--I just realized that the HowTo I used was NOT the one oshunluvr suggested. I didn't try it because of the warning. What I probably used was this:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=91370 but I can't be positive, because my wwwoffle cache shows a lot of pages with instructions on how to share internet, and in each case the instructions vary somewhat.