Any resolution to Activity / Desktop confusion?

[Frank616]

In KDE Plasma, one uses activities to have separate wallpapers and widgets per desktop. And their own individual apps as well. So, for instance, Calligra Writer opens on the "office" activity, and Steam opens on the "game" activity, and so on. Just pick an app, right-click on it in the panel, and pin it to an activity.

How is that different from the workspaces I use now where I have desktop icons / widgets on each of 6 workspaces, each one set up for different tasks, like Online, text editing, file manipulation, Virtual Machines, Misc, and Graphics?

Not complaining. Just trying to understand the logic of the paradigm change.

Frank.

[Frank616]

And yet there are many of us who have been and are completely satisfied with the direction KDE is going and the power it offers us. I’ve been using KDE since Alpha 1 in September of 1998. There have been many changes, bumps and rough spots along the way but on average the climb has always been uphill.

As the Qt API has evolved so has KDE, and the evolution has only been for the better.

Well, you've got close to 3 years on me then. :-) I started with KDE on Xandros 1 in the winter of 2001.

So, what do you, as an experienced user, see as the advantage of Activities that warrant such a paradigm change? Some of the others here have only come to KDE since Plasma 5. What do you do with Activities that cannot be done with desktops?

I'm really trying to understand this becasue I LIKE KDE, and don't want to switch.

Frank.

[spacer]

I use various DEs and WMs and with most of them you can't have different wallpapers on different desktops/workspaces. So this issue isn't something that'll make me quit using KDE Plasma; I'd like for the functionality to be restored, but if not, it isn't the end of the world. It used to be something that I really, really liked about KDE, though.

I don't want or need Activities and I'm not interested in using Activities just so that I can have different wallpapers for different desktops. I'm glad that some people like Plasma's Activities, but I've never warmed up to it. Xfce does allow different backgrounds for different workspaces, and it works quite nicely. I also have different backgrounds for my workspaces in my LXDE setup. Sadly, seems like the KDE folks don't care, they just wanna say, "Use Activities." Whatever.

[Bings]

So, basically each activity saves a machine state, complete with apps open, data files loaded at the right place, and web pages open where they were when you shut it off? And this would include multiple apps open in each workspace in each activity?

Please confirm. Because, if that is the case, then I can indeed see value in it. And, if I understand this correctly, what a programming nightmare!

Frank.

I wouldn't call it a machine state but it is intended for all those features, yes. The realisation is subjective to which program you are using, non KDE applications pretty much no. Dolphin, Kate and Konsole work perfectly with activities. For instance if you were open a new activity and do the following three things

1. Navigate Dolphin to a specific folder
2: Open a selection of text files
3: Set up a Konsole profile with the command htop and have it running.

You could close the activity and reopen it a week later, all those things would be still there. It's not really a machine state though, things like the taskbars are not individual to the machine and if you change it, you change it for all activities too. Plus (annoyingly) you can't have separate numbers of virtual desktops within an activity.

[GreyGeek]

... GreyGeek:

Good that we have choice in Linuxland.

That's the beauty of it. No forced compliance, no lock in. Plenty to choose from, and its hard to make a bad choice!

I never have used "Activities" but if the feature were available when I was programming I probably would have. I did use four desktops and had them set for different tasks. Kate & FireFox for html coding on one, QtCreator on a second, PostgreSQL & PG3Admin on a third, etc... (But, I haven't programmed a line of Qt code since I retired 10 years ago.

[dequire]

I use various DEs and WMs and with most of them you can't have different wallpapers on different desktops/workspaces. So this issue isn't something that'll make me quit using KDE Plasma; I'd like for the functionality to be restored, but if not, it isn't the end of the world. It used to be something that I really, really liked about KDE, though.

Workspaces, Desktops, Activities are all just words for very similar things. You can have separate desktops within Activities. You can have different wallpapers and widgets on different Activities. You can go into System Settings and bring up the Activities pager and change the shortcut to whatever you want (currently, <meta> + <q>). You can add the Activities pager widget to your desktop or panel for easy switching. You can even turn them on or off individually.

Since Activities are basically just desktops with more features, I don't see what the problem is? It honestly seems like the name "activities" scares people away. Maybe they should be re-named "desktops+" or something? It seems to really be tripping people up. I really don't get the hate towards them...

[GreyGeek]

Looks like many miss the separate wallpapers, not just me.

Frank.

From the thread of the first bug report above:

Canoe 2017-02-28 20:09:14 UTC

I've had some time to work with this on the latest Plasma 5.9.3.

This is my solution using Activities :
1. Set virtual desktops to 1, with 1 row.
2. Create as many Activities as you need Virtual Desktops.
3. Add the Activities Pager widget, this replaces the VD Widget!
4. Go to Task Switcher settings and filter windows by activity.

You now have the equivalent of Virtual Desktops, with their own wallpapers and widgets per desktop. It works, and the only difference I can see is that you're using Meta+Tab instead of alt-tab.

I'm hoping more clarification is given on this, more so for how powerful Activities are, hopefully some closure will be given during on-going development.

Thanks again to the Devs for their continued efforts in Plasma, - it's much appreciated.

The last few msgs in that bug thread indicate the Activities will be dropped altogether when Wayland takes over. It seems there is no API in Qt 5.x for Activities.

[jlittle]

... I really don't get the hate towards them...

When activities first arrived, functionality was taken away from virtual desktops. The way that some people had worked for years was disrupted.

It seemed like a version of the often repeated story of GUI developers forcing people to use their new cool stuff, dictating that the old way was, well, old, and backward and not conforming to the latest ideas (aka fads).

A sure way to get "hate" is tell people what they can and can't do.

Regards, John Little

[Bings]

Activities works in the 18.04 wayland session.

I think the problem is KDE devs removing big functions in their programs and not announcing it or explaining why. Just letting people find out the hard way is not the best of behaviour. I've seen quite a few threads about with people confused about why dolphin can't be opened with root any more as well. There are legitimate reasons why these things have been changed but an explanation would be polite when something it is altered that people have been using for years.

yes, the feature has been removed and due to the huge problem and added complexity it gave, is not going back. different workspaces with different containment/wallpaper can be done with activities, and that's what's supported.

That as a response is not very good and I can see why people got annoyed.

[Frank616]

I wouldn't call it a machine state but it is intended for all those features, yes. The realisation is subjective to which program you are using, non KDE applications pretty much no. Dolphin, Kate and Konsole work perfectly with activities. For instance if you were open a new activity and do the following three things

1. Navigate Dolphin to a specific folder
2: Open a selection of text files
3: Set up a Konsole profile with the command htop and have it running.

You could close the activity and reopen it a week later, all those things would be still there. It's not really a machine state though, things like the taskbars are not individual to the machine and if you change it, you change it for all activities too. Plus (annoyingly) you can't have separate numbers of virtual desktops within an activity.

OK, I see better what they are trying to do. So, I guess I wish them well. This is not a feature I can see myself needing, but like GreyGeek, I too am retired - but only for 5 years, and not 10.

Anyway, in the march of progress, you gain some things, but it appears that you also lose some things. Oh well.

I guess I'll have to give up different wallpapers for the time being, and hope that the devs put it back in for 20.04. I think I'lll problably go back to a single activity with 6 desktops like I have done since the 4.x series began. Just less hassle at the moment.

Frank.

[Frank616]

Bings!

I've seen quite a few threads about with people confused about why dolphin can't be opened with root any more as well.

Ah man! Not that too! :-(

Frank.

[GreyGeek]

Bings!



Ah man! Not that too! :-(

Frank.

The feature isn't gone, just changed, in fact for the better. Now, in Dolphin running as me if I want to edit a file in /etc I just right click on it and select "sudoedit kate". Kate opens up with that file and after I am done editing it and select save I get a prompt which asks for my password. After I enter it and click "Ok". the edited file is saved. Nothing could be easier, and equally safe.

[GreyGeek]

Well, you've got close to 3 years on me then. :-) I started with KDE on Xandros 1 in the winter of 2001.

So, what do you, as an experienced user, see as the advantage of Activities that warrant such a paradigm change? Some of the others here have only come to KDE since Plasma 5. What do you do with Activities that cannot be done with desktops?

I don't use Activities. And, I've stopped using pages as well. I just tab between apps or click on the task manager widget. KISS, because I'm not too smart.

I'm really trying to understand this becasue I LIKE KDE, and don't want to switch.

Frank.

I've used KDE since it was Alpha 1 on SuSE 5.3 in Sept of 1998. I won't be switching to any other desktop because, frankly, none can match the power and beauty of KDE, IMO and experience. (I just installed XFCE and FluxBox and found them to be a trip 10-15 years back in time).

[woodsmoke]

I am just a simple hardware kinda guy.

But...

I do not understand this thread.

There is an old "3M" ...Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing thing about ...this kinda stuff...

One side..one sheet...

I do not understand this thread...

woodkindastupidsmoke

[dequire]

I do not understand this thread...

woodkindastupidsmoke

I'm with ya woody! May this thread