Not a cry for help, but rather an observation...

[SpecialEd]

I'm posting this in the "Help the New Guy" forum as I feel it is the most appropriate. I apologize to the moderators if I am incorrect. I was very fortunate (dumb luck really) that this time around I decided to try KDE and landed in this forum where I was welcomed and encouraged.

Why users are keeping Linux from gaining market share

If you've ever wondered why Linux still struggles with market share, the community's answer to a newbie question could shed some light.

By Jack Wallen | April 5, 2017, 10:13 AM PST

The Article

[jlittle]

Well, I don't agree that "attitude" is the main reason for the lack of Linux success on the desktop, but what he talks about is a big problem.

However, "Join date 2010, 23 posts" suggests that you're aware of our, kubuntuforums.net, general "attitude". In your opinion, how much does this community exhibit the problem? How can we improve?

[SpecialEd]

Well, I don't agree that "attitude" is the main reason for the lack of Linux success on the desktop, but what he talks about is a big problem.

However, "Join date 2010, 23 posts" suggests that you're aware of our, kubuntuforums.net, general "attitude". In your opinion, how much does this community exhibit the problem? How can we improve?

I joined about two months ago and I gave a short description of how I feel about this forum. I posted this because this forum does NOT fall in the category the author of the article describes.

[megosdog]

Years ago I started a site called Raiden's Realm with the express purpose of reaching the newbie community for many of the same reasons (and others as well) that are listed in the article. My complaint to my fellow Linux and BSD geeks at the time was, "You whine about not getting fresh blood into the community, and yet you do nothing to fix it, and in some cases you fight against it." In a lot of cases that statement was met with a lot of vitriol from the more elite and senior members of the community at the time. Lots of people shouting RTFM and other such comments at newbies. So in response to this I started Raiden's Realm with the goal of getting new people in and up to speed, and doing so in a very friendly, open, encouraging atmosphere. At least that was the goal, to get them trained up far enough where they could play with the big boys in the community without fear.

The funny part is, because I chose to do that, my site went from being a nobody to being one of the top 10 sites at the time in less than a year. However, you'd be shocked at the amount of upstream flack I got for doing that. Lots of "how dare you's" and "you're hurting Linux by letting in the unwashed masses" and so on. Here I was trying to help the community bring in more people and boost Linux user numbers, and instead I was treated like the enemy. Eventually I burned out and had to walk away. Now it's cool that some groups picked up some of what I was doing after the site went away and continued my work. But in general most didn't. So yeah, I totally feel your pain.

Also, anyone who knew me over at RR probably wouldn't have known that kinda stuff was going on in the background, but believe me, it was. I just wasn't one to advertise it as I was more focused on helping newbies. What's funny though is that, at one time I used to be what many would classify as an elite user. Yet time and inability to keep up with things has kinda slotted me back into something akin to a cross between a newbie and a mid level user. ^_^;; Oh well. I'll just blame that on old age.

[oshunluvr]

The funny thing to me is how people believe they get "support" because they buy their OS from Microsoft. I've never had a single tech support person worth a damn on the phone.

Windows users have come to accept the merry-go-round they're on: Buy a PC with Windows, use it the best you can, run your virus checker every day, in about two years, the hardware is still fine but the OS has slowed to a crawl, blame the slowness on the PC, give the PC to a grateful Linux user, buy a new Windows PC, repeat. I've said it many times - Microsoft is a marketing company, not a software company.

However, I think the biggest obstacle isn't elitist users. It's the total lack of any kind of uniformity. Most people don't want to think about what makes their PC work any more than they think about how their VCR works. They want to plug in a tape and push "Play." THAT's what appeals to them about Windows - at least in perception. Every Windows user I know tends to know very little about Windows and doesn't want too. But they can all look at a PC with a glance and tell the difference between Windows XP, 7/8 and 10. Apple users are even less interested in the inner workings. All of us "geeks" relish in the choices and power we have over our OS, but we're not the general public. Give us one, solid, well supported, properly marketed, and UNIFORM Linux system that multiple manufacturers will supply and we'll have the beginnings of a real move toward Linux on the desktop.

A single packaging system, a ubiquitous installer, a common desktop, tools that work - that's what the non-geeks want and need. Once there is a base of non-geek users, the elitists will retreat to their own haunts and the masses will begin to learn about the benefits of Linux.

BTW, there's no RTFM going on here (on KFN) and it's simple enough to control. I left PCLinuxOS in 2009 because their forum had devolved into an angry collection of xenophobes. I stopped recommending it to new users at the same time. Now I tell interested people to look for a good, friendly forum before settling on a distro. This one comes to mind...

[marco07]

However, I think the biggest obstacle isn't elitist users. It's the total lack of any kind of uniformity...

+1, Well said!

[Qqmike]

And regressions are no fun, either. Average user has no stamina to work a work-around or substitution. What? No root action in Dolphin, Kate now?

[GreyGeek]

As someone who adopted the Penguin twenty years by giving my entire HD of my Sony VAIO desktop to RH 5.0, which I got from a CD in the back of a paperback book by Bill Brush titled "Learn Linux in 24 Hours" for $25, I disagree with Jack's assessment of both the cost and ease of use of Linux. I also disagree with his "prediction" that Linux would reach 5% of desktop market share this year, since Gartner published its estimate in 2004 that Linux already had 4% and predicted 8% by 2008. Following the Microsoft Vista and Win8 debacle the Apple and Linux market share has only increased. All that "less than 1%" foolishness comes from the NetApplications website, which sells remade Windows executables. The DistroWatch website has an OS counter and puts visits by folks running Linux at 49% and those running Windows at 40%. Those stats are just as fair as NetApplication's website stats.

When Microsoft or Apple sells a copy of their OS (Microsoft through their hegemony of the PC OEMs) their bean counters have sales receipts to use. However, when a person replaced (or dual boots) that Windows installation with Linux the count of Windows installations never decreases, and no bean counter is counting the number of Linux ISO downloads and installs. Speaking of installs, I have frequently used the same ISO to install Kubuntu on several computers. A consumer cannot legally do that with their Windows OS, even if they knew how. So the total count of Linux installs is unknowable. Gartner was referring to corporate, federal, state and local installs where station counts can be tallied. How many

About Jack's contention that Linux is "difficult". Hogwash. RH 5.0 was just as easy to run (mouse & keyboard) as the Win95 it replaced, except that it didn't crash once during the 5 months I used it (Win95 would crash several times a day, sometimes an hour!) before I replaced it with SuSE 5.3 featuring KDE 1.0 Beta in September of 1998. I've been with KDE every since and its easy of use and power far exceeds any version of Windows I've been forced to run in the past. The only difference is the names of the apps and how the installation is updated or new apps installed, which is a LOT easier and more secure than Windows, and is done automatically, if one wishes, for security and app updates.

As far as help for noobs? He has a point. Some "help" sites are more like wheelbarrows where Linux "experts" like to parade their Linux nads around for all to see and admire. Answers like "RTFM" are worthless. That's why I like THIS forum. People here are very friendly, helpful and competent but not arrogant, AND, they keep it family friendly which is why I tell my 10 year old grandson to browse here and it's nice to know that he won't encounter a slew of F-bombs and rude, crude, racist or sexist remarks. (I hate PC but I also dislike sewage environments). It's refreshing to visit here.

[GreyGeek]

And regressions are no fun, either. Average user has no stamina to work a work-around or substitution. What? No root action in Dolphin, Kate now?

Indeed, but neither is being hacked by some jerk. I suspect that once policy protocol is worked out Dolphin will be restored to its former glory. Until then, we may even lose Krusader as root in addition to Kate. But, there is always MC, from which Krusader appears to have been made. Back in RH 5.0 days security wasn't even a blip on the horizon. Now, with the CIA, NSA, FBI, Military and foreign agent hackers it is a serious problem and concessions have to be made. It makes the developers work MUCH tougher and they'll need all the encouragement they can get, not criticism. (I know you weren't criticizing them, but a lot of ill-informed people take pot-shots at what they "think" is the problem).

[megosdog]

Lol, well said, greygeek!! As for ease of use for Linux, my experience has been that it varies by user. Some take to certain things like a duck to water, and others struggle at it despite any help you may give them. As for the RTFM'ers, meh, screw them. If they want to think themselves superior to all others, then fine, let them. The rest of us will just go on living life and ignoring them. :P

[GreyGeek]

Lol, well said, greygeek!! As for ease of use for Linux, my experience has been that it varies by user. Some take to certain things like a duck to water, and others struggle at it despite any help you may give them. As for the RTFM'ers, meh, screw them. If they want to think themselves superior to all others, then fine, let them. The rest of us will just go on living life and ignoring them. :P

I've had more Windows users ask me for help than Linux users. For a while I would help, but it got to be such a chore that I said I would no longer "do windows" and if they wanted my help they'd have to let me install Linux. About two dozen took me up on it. Over the years all but a couple have died and only one quit and went back to windows. I find that people who had trouble running Linux had equally as much trouble running Windows, but solutions were easier on Linux because it didn't bury the needed tools behind a lot of "helpful" gloss.

[SpecialEd]

This brings to mind the "computer wiz" fallacy(for lack of a better word?) The middle-aged housewife thinks the kid next door is a computer wiz, he has a couple friends at school who he thinks are CWs, they have older siblings or friends they think are CWs, who have teachers or friends who they think are CWs, and so on and so on... Everyone starts out as a "neewb."

[wartnose]

...Apple users are even less interested in the inner workings...

LOL That's for sure. But they want to pay a lot more money for those well organized icons.

[TWPonKubuntu]

Just found this thread and could not agree more with the attitude and sentiments wrt Linux.

I got into Linux in the 90's (I think, things were a little hazy back then) with Red Hat. I was forced (kicking and screaming) back into the Windows(r) world by my various clients (take the money and run), but after I "retired" and went full-on independent, it was Linux that both saved my bacon and put that bacon on the table.

I found this forum not long ago, in internet years, because I was using Kubuntu 9.04 or 8.04, don't remember now. It just worked and this forum was very welcoming. Sadly KDE has not worked well on my old 32 bit system after ver 14.04 and I was forced to find another DE. And still, this forum welcomes me. That is just nice!

Do I still test KDE? Yes, about every 60 days, I reinstall using Kubuntu to see if there is hope (sigh...). Until then, I'll use XFCE, which does work on my system. Just as a side note, I'm running Linux Mint 18.1 which uses Ubuntu 16.04.

The point of all this is that there are good people on Linux fora. My opinion is that we have a greater percentage of helpful people than any Windoz forum.

Keep up the good work!

[Snowhog]

Sadly KDE has not worked well on my old 32 bit system after ver 14.04 and I was forced to find another DE.

What are the specifications of your 'old 32 bit system'?