Forever newb

[parillo]

Hi all,

after nealry seven years using kubuntu I'm serioulsy considering to finally give up. When I decided for a clean install of 11.10, I'd never expected that'd be such a big trouble, that I'd encounter so many problems. After two days I still don't have a working system. I tried the normal installation and the text installation, I read the forums and tried to address the various problems that kept popping up as suggested. I even tried to install 11.04 and then to upgrade to 11.10. What keeps me thinking, though, is not that I have problems making kubuntu work. I do expect that, and that is part of the problem, even if I have to say I find sincerely disappointing that in these seven years the process has become more difficult, and not easier as I would have expected. What keeps me thinking is that for every try I made I got a different error. Even when I tried the same thing for the second time. This is new for me. No good.
"Making your pc friendly", "friendly computing", everything is said to be "friendly" on the kubuntu website, on the presentation pages that you can read during the installation (I have had a lot of time read through them in the last couple of days). But that is plainly false, and everyone who has some experience with kubuntu knows that very well. That is more than marketing, it's something near to the circumvention of an incapable. You really can't propose this system to a newb, expecially with regards of what could happen if, say, the installation fails when installing grub and, say, the newb had just decided to give kubuntu a try, making it a dual boot with his windos partition. It should be clearly stated everywhere that kubuntu is not friendly at all (yet).

I'm not a linux guru, that's for sure. But after seven years, and with an information science degree, you think you should've learned something. And you're wrong. You're forever newb.

I want to make it clear I'm not pointing my finger against the developers or the community. Great people. I love them, the work they keep doing and the help they're ready to give. But the communication should'be honest, once and for all.

Bye
Giovanni

[dequire]

Best of luck to you wherever your personal computing journey takes you

[kiraitachi]

I guess this is why Linux is for the ENLIGHTENED hehehe XD.

Im pretty satisfied with Kubuntu...although it gave me its headaches...but it's not fault of developers, its fault of manufacturers that make close door source...(Example, nvida or ati graphic cards....).

Anyways good luck ^^.

[GreyGeek]

...
I'm not a linux guru, that's for sure. But after seven years, and with an information science degree, you think you should've learned something. And you're wrong. You're forever newb.

Giovanni, forgive me, but I think your post is a bogus. You are seriously telling us that even after seven years of using Linux and even with an IS degree as well, you cannot do a clean installation of Kubuntu?
That says more about you than Kubuntu.

I want to make it clear I'm not pointing my finger against the developers or the community. Great people. I love them, the work they keep doing and the help they're ready to give. But the communication should'be honest, once and for all.

Bye
Giovanni

"communication should be honest"? Who do you think is lying to you? And why is it anyone's fault but your own that you, out of millions who successfully install Kubuntu, cannot do so?

Good luck with Mac or Windows. Warm up your wallet, don't forget your AV subscription, and I hope I don't see your box on the next big bot farm.

[DoYouKubuntu]

GG already said [very well, I might add] much of what I was thinking. So here are my other thoughts.

I find sincerely disappointing that in these seven years the process has become more difficult, and not easier as I would have expected.

Isn't that something?! In *MY* experience--and I've used Kubuntu since its VERY FIRST release--it's gotten so ridiculously easy that I can do a clean install with my eyes closed. In about 10-15 minutes. Done! With everything working. Even wireless on the infamous Broadcom 43xx card--that used to require manually fiddling with ndiswrapper, but has been fully automated for several YEARS now.

What keeps me thinking is that for every try I made I got a different error. Even when I tried the same thing for the second time. This is new for me. No good.

Without knowing the specifics--like your computer's physical makeup, such as its type and brand of hard drive, its graphics card, its amount of memory, its peripherals, and so on--I have no clue why this unknown-to-me phenomenon would happen to you. Perhaps you'd like to provide some details about your setup?

"Making your pc friendly", "friendly computing", everything is said to be "friendly" on the kubuntu website, on the presentation pages that you can read during the installation (I have had a lot of time read through them in the last couple of days). But that is plainly false

Well, I beg to differ. If my 88-year-old mother, who is truly the most computer illiterate person I've ever known, can use Kubuntu all day every day, it's pretty damned friendly.

and everyone who has some experience with kubuntu knows that very well.

Really?! *I* have "some experience" with Kubuntu, dating back to its initial release, and *I* don't know that. I wonder why?

That is more than marketing, it's something near to the circumvention of an incapable. You really can't propose this system to a newb, expecially with regards of what could happen if, say, the installation fails when installing grub and, say, the newb had just decided to give kubuntu a try, making it a dual boot with his windos partition. It should be clearly stated everywhere that kubuntu is not friendly at all (yet).

It's been a while--in fact, I'm not even sure if I've said this on THIS forum--but I'm about to say: I SMELL A WINDOZE TROLL.

I'm not a linux guru, that's for sure.

Nor do you need to be. My mother has no clue what a command line is, and on a scale of Linux gurus she'd be at about...negative 20.

But after seven years, and with an information science degree, you think you should've learned something. And you're wrong. You're forever newb.

If any of this is true, I'd seriously consider asking for a refund from the school where you got your IS degree. I taught myself UNIX programming and system administration in the mid-1980s, when everything was command line only AND there was no such thing as Google or KubuntuForums.net. Information came from books, which I devoured. And I didn't have an IS degree--I was a pre-med student! Within a year I had transitioned the furniture store chain where I had worked [doing data entry] while in college from their IBM System/3 mainframes to a multi-user, multi-location UNIX system, doing ALL the programming and administration myself. So, yeah, I'd see about getting a refund.

I want to make it clear I'm not pointing my finger against the developers or the community. Great people. I love them, the work they keep doing and the help they're ready to give. But the communication should'be honest, once and for all.

Bye
Giovanni

See ya!

[GreyGeek]

... it's gotten so ridiculously easy that I can do a clean install with my eyes closed. In about 10-15 minutes.

That's about par for me as well.

Geovanni, here's how you do it:
The first thing one should do after downloading the ISO is to check it with md5sum, or what ever.
Then, burn the ISO to a CD at 8X or less, DAO, with verification after the burn to be sure that the burn was OK.
THEN, turn off the computer. Insert the CD, close the tray, and turn on the computer. (IF your computer is not set to boot from the CDROM first then call up the BIOS and set it that way and reboot.)
When the first dialog comes up it give you the option to try Kubuntu running as a LiveCD without touching your hard drive, or installing it directly from the dialog.
The prudent thing to do is try the LiveCD option.
While the LiveCD option is running, make sure that your video is working the way you want, with acceleration, that your wireless can connect to your access point, and that your printer will install and print. IF any of these services are not working your task is to figure out why BEFORE you install the LiveCD. That's what KubuntuForums.net is for.
If the Kubuntu LiveCD does not work well "out of the box" and your PC has hardware that you can't get Kubuntu to configure, then try another distro: Linux Mint KDE, OpenSUSE, PCLinuxOS, etc...
If the LiveCD works well, and it will on 95% of all hardware "out of the box", then click on menu or desktop option to "Install Kubuntu".
You will be asked for a name, a password and a timezone. That name will be the "root" user, or admin for the Kubuntu system. All other users added later will not be admin or have acess to sudo.
After those three questions are answered you will be asked if you want to either give the entire hard drive or just part of it to Kubuntu.
If you chose the entire HD you are about 10 minutes away from logging into your HD, depending on how fast your PDC is.
If you choose just a part of your HD, then you have to decide how much of the free space that is available do you want to committ to Kubuntu.
IMO, at take at least 30GB, which gives 24GB for apps and data beyond the OS and KDE. Partitioning the HD is where most users have trouble. The process is described here.

That proceedure is found in so many places around the Internet one has to take pains to avoid stumbling over them while browsing. Well, not quite, but close.

[Linkmaster]

I feel like commenting on this to just kind of marvel how someone with "seven years" of experience can't figure out how to use Kubuntu. My first taste of Kubuntu, and linux in general actually, was the Alpha2 of 10.10. Beautiful system, I'm proud to say I've used nothing else since, but I digress. My first ever computer was a fun one. It had, as DoYouKubuntu stated it, an 'infamous Broadcom 43xx" as my first test. That was fun. Not in the least actually. but now, whenever I have to install on those, it takes a matter of minutes for me to do it - I can even do it without a wired connection! And I'm simply a HS student! GG might actually remember one of my first posts, I didnt even know how to configue my system! Not to mention, I was using release software! Now, Kubuntu installs and is ready to go as fast as my hardware is. In fact, I can't even finish eating before its ready for the next step for me.

I don't know what you are doing wrong, but it is obviously not what the other millions are doing right

[/rant]

[dequire]

Perfectly said. That post was disengenuous.

[parillo]

Hi all,

this was not meant to become a thread about if I'm or not proficient enough to install kubuntu. Obviously, unlike DoYouKubuntu's grandmother, I can confront with most (but as I just discovered, not everything) of what can go wrong with kubuntu. And by the way, thanks to GreyGeek for his kind explanations, but obviously that's not what I came here for. Trust me I'm not a bogus nor a windows/mac troll, even if I'm writing this message (unhappily, believe me) with windows 7 on board. Obviously when I wrote that post I had to pour out some rage, after 10 or so broken installations (even so, I'm proud of myself, I had the nerve to say "I'm seriously considering givin'up" instead of a more dramatic "I give up"). Just to let you know, MOSTLY it seems that the kubuntu/ubuntu stops working after the first upgrade I do after the clean install. But that is not always true: sometimes I cannot even boot. And other times it blocks during boot with some problem with the network configuring. As I said before, I already went through the forums and tried this and that, but the problems are simply too erratic to understand what I'm facing here. I suspect a problem with my hard disk, even if it seems that windows 7 is perfectly working. Maybe it's the 3.0 kernel. I'm still not sure. I'll post some log in another thread.

That said, I remain of the opinion that saying that Kubuntu is "easy to use" gives the wrong idea. Let alone my competence, I don't intend to take offense on the statements about what one could expect from an information science graduated with a seven year experience on kubuntu. Think of me like the usual newb, as I asked you to. Just to make an example, one often has to compile his own software if he wants it to finally start working smoothly. Sometimes ago I installed kubuntu 11.04 on my other laptop, and I had to work a lot through the terminal to make it install the nvidia drivers: after the fresh install kde simply did not work. That not to tell of the number of things that can (and sometimes do) go wrong when you decide to upgrade (instead of making a fresh install) to the next version of ubuntu/kubuntu. In these years I count at least 3 times when the process for some reason stopped during the update letting me without a working system. What would a grandmother do in a case like those, after reading that kubuntu is easy computing? Come on people, give me a break.
That simply won't happen to the windos user (well, except for Vista), even if, and that's for sure, he'll probably have to cope with other issues, security in the first place.
I know, the fault for this problems is not the developers' nor the community's, as I said. But I honestly can't suggest kubuntu to the ordinary people who just want to navigate, write, play and sometimes install a new software.

[parillo]

After other tries, this seems to be the most common problem. For some reason, it occurs at boot, but only after I first upgrade after the clean install (which mostly goes smoothly). Happens both in 11.10 and 11.04, so it has not to do with 3.0 kernel. The consequences are random: sometimes when I reboot grub gives a no file found error, sometimes it boots but then stalls or proceeds very slowly, sometimes it encounters problems while setting up network. Unfortunately I can't check up my hard drive integrity cause Hitachi's tool is not supporting ich9m controller. I tried to turn off acpi at boot, as suggested in some forum, and to set libata.dma=0, but it was useless. I think I have to change hard disk. There:

Jan 26 19:06:07 brainbox kernel: [12113.280021] ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Jan 26 19:06:07 brainbox kernel: [12113.280023] ata1.00: error: { UNC }
Jan 26 19:06:07 brainbox kernel: [12113.283104] ata1.00: configured for PIO4
Jan 26 19:06:07 brainbox kernel: [12113.283114] ata1: EH complete
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457701] ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457705] ata1.00: irq_stat 0x40000001
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457707] ata1.00: failed command: READ MULTIPLE
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457713] ata1.00: cmd c4/00:08:20:d0:ae/00:00:00:00:00/e7 tag 0 pio 4096 in
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457715] res 51/40:03:25:d0:ae/00:00:07:00:00/e7 Emask 0x9 (media error)
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457718] ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR }
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.457720] ata1.00: error: { UNC }
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460823] ata1.00: configured for PIO4
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460832] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled sense code
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460834] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460838] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Sense Key : Medium Error [current] [descriptor]
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460843] Descriptor sense data with sense descriptors (in hex):
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460845] 72 03 11 04 00 00 00 0c 00 0a 80 00 00 00 00 00
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460855] 07 ae d0 25
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460860] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460866] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 07 ae d0 20 00 00 08 00
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460876] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 128897061
Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460890] ata1: EH complete

I'll post this somewhere more appropriate soon. Bye

[james147]

Jan 26 19:06:11 brainbox kernel: [12117.460876] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 128897061

Well that kind of explains your problems... nothing to do with kubuntu

Guess its time for a new disk, and possible consider a raid setup worked wonders for my when one of my disks failed.

[rms]

Think of me like the usual newb, as I asked you to. Just to make an example, one often has to compile his own software if he wants it to finally start working smoothly.

A newb doesn't know the word "compile".

[Snowhog]

parillo@

It 'now' seems to be likely that you have a failing hard drive which can contribute to all the problems you described in your initial post. For this very reason your first post, and I must ask you to accept this, had a 'kubuntu sucks' flavor. And that type of post gets our hackles up, and thus the tone conveyed in the replies.

PC's are composed of many, many parts; many electrical (non-moving) and others mechanical (moving). Both wear with time and reach a point where the acceptable tolerances are exceeded. Some operating systems are more 'fault tolerant', and others are less so. Windows and Linux come to mind. When one starts experiencing problems with 'software', you cannot ignore the possibility that it might be the hardware. Had you (you didn't say you did) tried running either 11.04 or 11.10 from a LiveCD as GreyGeek mentioned ("The prudent thing to do is try the LiveCD option.") you likely would have realized that both worked just fine.

Begin humor.

ACHTUNG - ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights.

The above was apparently based on the following, original version, from the early 1960s:

Alles touristen und non-technischen looken peepers! Das machinkontrol is nicht for gefengerpoken und mittengrabben. Oderwise is easy schnappen der springenverk, blowenfus, undpoppencorken mit spitzensparken. Der machine is diggen by experten only. Is nicht fur geverken by das dumpkopfen. Das rubber necken sightseenen keepen das cotton-picken hands in das pockets. So relaxen, und vatchen das blinkenlights.

And here's the phony-English version the Germans use:

This room is fullfilled mit special electronische equipment. Fingergrabbing and pressing the knoeppkes from the computers is allowed for die experts only! So all the "lefthanders" stay away and do not disturben the brainstorming von here working intelligences. Otherwise you will be outthrown and kicked anderswhere! Also: please keep still and only watchen astaunished the blinkenlights.

Of course, this warning would not be complete without the Internet version:

Das Internet is nicht fuer gefingerclickend und giffengrabben. Ist easy droppenpacket der Routers und overloaden der Backbone mit der spammen und der me-tooen. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei die Dummkopfen. Die mausklicken Sichtseeren keepen das Bandwidth-spewen Hands in die Pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das cursorblinken.

Finally, the Palm Pilot version:

Das PalmPilot ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy scratch der Screene, zappen RAM, und droppen-smashen. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das Dummkopfen. Das rubber-necken Sichtseeren keep die Hands in die Pockets -- relaxen und watchen Das Blinkenlights.

End humor.

[DoYouKubuntu]

this was not meant to become a thread about if I'm or not proficient enough to install kubuntu.

Perhaps not, but your OP had many of the hallmarks of a windoze troll's post.

Obviously when I wrote that post I had to pour out some rage, after 10 or so broken installations

I can understand that.

Just to let you know, MOSTLY it seems that the kubuntu/ubuntu stops working after the first upgrade I do after the clean install. But that is not always true: sometimes I cannot even boot. And other times it blocks during boot with some problem with the network configuring. As I said before, I already went through the forums and tried this and that, but the problems are simply too erratic to understand what I'm facing here. I suspect a problem with my hard disk, even if it seems that windows 7 is perfectly working.

As others have pointed out--based on the additional info you provided--you're most likely dealing with a failing hard drive. That windoze APPEARS to be "perfectly working" doesn't really mean much--how do you think windoze got its reputation for being the most crash-prone OS on earth? Oh, yeah! By crashing without warning! If you think you can keep w7 humming along on what appears to be a failing hard drive, more power to you. Personally, I'd be glad that Linux is smart enough to tell me ahead of time that there's a problem with my disk.

That said, I remain of the opinion that saying that Kubuntu is "easy to use" gives the wrong idea.

I am, and will remain, baffled by this. Every person I've converted to Linux in the last 7-ish years made the switch from 'doze to Kubuntu--many with NO HELP from me whatsoever. They are in no way, shape or form computer professionals [like I am/was], yet were fully capable of downloading and correctly burning the ISO, verifying it, booting up off the CD and installing Kubuntu quite effortlessly. A few others I've converted I had to do the installation [because they're COMPLETELY computer illiterate], yet gave no instruction and they were able to start doing what they're used to doing, such as browsing the web, using an e-mail client (which I configured for them), playing games, writing documents, etc., within minutes.

Think of me like the usual newb, as I asked you to.

Sorry, but with seven years of *buntu AND a degree in IS under your belt, you're not a n00b.

Just to make an example, one often has to compile his own software if he wants it to finally start working smoothly.

Really? You know how long it's been since I needed to compile ANYTHING? So long I don't know if I'd remember HOW to compile something if I needed to! I have yet to see ANYTHING in the last 5+ years that didn't work with Kubuntu essentially out of the box. Perhaps I'm just lucky...REALLY, really lucky, eh? That somehow every computer, printer, scanner, all-in-one, DSLR camera, USB device, external storage, hard drive, smartphone, etc., I've bought magically worked?

Sometimes ago I installed kubuntu 11.04 on my other laptop, and I had to work a lot through the terminal to make it install the nvidia drivers:

Yeah, I think I had to do that once...about seven years ago?

after the fresh install kde simply did not work.

I've had KDE not work--but I didn't blame KDE. When I got my latest laptop a few months ago I let the version upgrade do its thing, taking it from 10.10 to 11.04, on my old laptop. It was a pathetic failure. But that wasn't Kubuntu or KDE's fault, it was the laptop not being up to a later version. I manually downgraded it back to 10..10 and it's humming along just fine now.

That not to tell of the number of things that can (and sometimes do) go wrong when you decide to upgrade (instead of making a fresh install) to the next version of ubuntu/kubuntu. In these years I count at least 3 times when the process for some reason stopped during the update letting me without a working system.

Well, in the seven years I've been using Kubuntu--and having installed it directly or indirectly on approximately 25 computers since then--I've NEVER seen that happen. Again, I must be a really lucky person!

What would a grandmother do in a case like those, after reading that kubuntu is easy computing? Come on people, give me a break.

Luckily, the VAST majority of people who install Kubuntu are--like me!--extraordinarily lucky and don't see any of the problems you're saying are normal and common with it.

That simply won't happen to the windos user (well, except for Vista), even if, and that's for sure, he'll probably have to cope with other issues, security in the first place.
I know, the fault for this problems is not the developers' nor the community's, as I said. But I honestly can't suggest kubuntu to the ordinary people who just want to navigate, write, play and sometimes install a new software.

Nonsense. Sorry, I know I keep coming back to the windoze troll thing, but that last statement is so ludicrous I just can't help it. The "ordinary people" in my life who've switched to Kubuntu from the insecure, virus laden, malware/adware/spyware/bloated piece of crap they were running (windoze), manage very nicely navigating, writing, playing and installing new software. AND they're glad they no longer have to reboot constantly, for every little thing, from installing a program to attaching a new device to recovering from yet another crash.

A newb doesn't know the word "compile".

EXACTLY!!

[rms]

@Snowhog
That's no humour, that's shear truth! xD

It should be noted also that many people buy computers with Windows preinstalled & configured which gives the illusion that it's simple to use and/or maintain.

In the past few years, if my hardware permitted, no Linux distro gave me any headaches to install except Arch. xD