confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

[marqueemark]

After resolving a recent issue where I couldn't get kpkgkit to work and was using the terminal for upgrades I noticed that there's no way these are doing the same thing. If I retrieve the updates with sudo apt-get its like a 15 second process, and its all over, if I run the package kit it is downloading files for a couple minutes(on average) and then taking another couple minutes to install the updates. What's going on? Is there more than I am realizing to the sudo apt-get?

[wanderingarcticfox]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

The Terminal or Konsole is always faster than a update manager. Command line is not a part of the GUI [Graphical User Interface] and therefore more of a direct line into the OS.

[marqueemark]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

would it be thousands of percent faster?

[vinnywright]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

what "exactly" did you type to update with apt-get?

VINNY

[marqueemark]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

sudo apt-get update

[vinnywright]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

that just refreshes the package list you nead at least

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade

to actually do any updating .

I pefer this one myself but thats me

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

read

man apt-get

VINNY

[marqueemark]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

Excellent, I just updated earlier so it's showing no new ones, I will try this the next time updates are available and see if it causes the package kit queue to clear afterward. Thank you for your assistance

[vinnywright]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit


your welcome .....................Keep in mind that if you have Kpackagekit open apt-get wont work .

only 1 package management system can function at a time

VINNY

[doctordruidphd]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

One little point of clarification:

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade

will install updates to EXISTING version of programs already on your system. For example, let's say you have Gimp-2.6 installed, and a bug fix to gimp-2.6 is released. This will be installed by the above procedure. However, in the same scenario, if gimp-2.8 is released, it won't be installed with the above command, because it is a different version of the program.

To upgrade to a newer version of the program, you would need to use:

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

dist-upgrade will not upgrade, say, your entire natty distribution to oneiric (unoless you do some other things). But it will install the most recent available version of the programs in the repositories.

Where this is most important is for kernel updates, which very often are new versions. apt-get upgrade won't pick these up. The other thing it won't pick up is the major kde upgrades that occur mid-release for kubuntu.

The other difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade is that "upgrade" won't remove packages, whereas dist-upgrade could, if done at the wrong moment, remove most of your system. So if you use dist-upgrade, pay close attention to what it says about "The following packages will be REMOVED". It means it, and under those circumstances, it might be best to go with an "upgrade" instead of a "dist-upgrade" until the problem resolves.

[kubicle]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade

will install updates to EXISTING version of programs already on your system. For example, let's say you have Gimp-2.6 installed, and a bug fix to gimp-2.6 is released. This will be installed by the above procedure. However, in the same scenario, if gimp-2.8 is released, it won't be installed with the above command, because it is a different version of the program.

I'll try to add some additional clarification. "Upgrade" will only upgrade packages that can be upgraded without removing other packages and/or installing new packages (due to dependencies), it will however upgrade other already installed packages if necessary. Packages that would require removal of installed packages or installation of additional packages will be "held back" (and can be installed with "dist-upgrade").

So, whether "upgrade" will upgrade software packages to new versions of software depends on two things:

1. Are there new dependencies/conflicts in the new version that would require installation/removal of other packages. If there are, you need "dist-upgrade" to upgrade.

2. Is the version number included in the package name (sometimes it's either necessary or convenient to have multiple versions of software installed on the same machine, in which case the packages are distinguished by including the version number in the package name...like libpython2.6 vs. libpython2.7 vs. libpython3.2). In this case, "upgrade" won't upgrade to a newer version (in the example libpython2.6 won't be upgraded to libpython2.7, since that would require installation of a new package). It's worthwhile to note that dist-upgrade won't upgrade the version either, unless another package (like a meta-package) depends on the new version (again, in the example, even dist-upgrade won't upgrade libpython2.6 to libpython2.7 unless another package upgraded depends on the newer libpython2.7).

GUI package managers usually have the same options, "safe upgrade" (safe in the way nothing will get removed) which is similar to "upgrade", and "full upgrade/smart upgrade" which is similar to dist-upgrade.

[SteveRiley]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

I can recall, more than once, situations in which upgrade, because it would hold back certain packages, ended up causing other packages to subsequently remove themselves. That's why I now use only dist-upgrade instead.

I wish I could be more specific and cite examples, but it was a few months ago so I've forgotten the details by now. Admittedly, it could be because I was allowing my system to pull in KDE 4.7 upgrades from the Kubuntu experimental repository, and my upgrade timing was such that the repository itself wasn't complete, who knows exactly...

[doctordruidphd]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

Well, it isn't SUPPOSED to remove anything, but if it did, then it did. All the more reason to pay careful attention to the warnings before hitting that Y key.

[woodsmoke]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

I will confirm what steveriley said and also second what the doc said! lol

woodsmoke

[Arran]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

Very interesting discussion. I shed off the dist-upgrade up to now. But, if I see something dubious in the List of upgrades, how can I stop just a few applications to be uploaded, respectively deleted and the great rest goes through?

[doctordruidphd]

Re: confused about sudo apt-get vs kpkgkit

In most cases, and I say MOST cases being mindful of what steveriley and woodsmoke said,

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade

will allow most of the updates to go through, without removing things. You still have to check what it says about removing packages before you click OK (or hit the Y key, depending on how you are doing it).

Usually, when dist-upgrade tries to remove packages, there are two reasons:

1. The package/s it is trying to remove have been replaced by newer versions. You can check this by reading the list of packages to be removed, and comparing it to the list of "The following NEW packages will be installed:" If it wants to remove, for example, libthis1, and it says it's going to install libthis2, then it's a safe bet that its just replacing an older version with a new one. However,

2. Another reason dist-upgrade will try to remove packages is if it is installing a major upgrade to something like kde, libreoffice, or some other program suite that has a lot of dependencies. You will often find in this case that there are no replacements for what dist-upgrade is trying to remove. Sometimes that's OK, because newer versions of software like kde may change the programs they use, and remove old ones to make room for new ones. But sometimes, the problem is that not all of the new packages have been uploaded to the repository, and it may remove crucial parts of your system that don't have replacements uploaded yet. If that happens, it can leave your system unusable. The best thing to do in this case is wait about 24 hours, and try the update && dist-upgrade again. This gives developers and package managers time to get the whole suite of programs in the repositories. You will know this has happened when update && dist-upgrade shows a whole boatload of upgrades, but very few if any REMOVEs.

I'm sure this is all clear as mud, it's the kind of thing you figure out after having worked with the package system for a while. I still don't know all its fine points (see above posts) and learn something new about it all the time. The one thing I always do is look carefully at what the package manager says it is going to do, before letting it do it. And I do full system backups frequently, at least once a week, and always before any major upgrade in case things go wrong. A usb hard drive for this purpose can, in the long run, save you a lot of frustration when an upgrade doesn't go well.

I should mention that it is also possible to place a "hold" on specific packages to prevent them from being upgraded. I use this, for example, because I dislike Firefox betas, and oneiric insists on trying to install beta versions. So I installed FF6 and its associated packages, and then put hold on them. This prevents them from upgrading at all, until I take the hold off.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. The direct answer to your question is there are two possibilities:

(1) Most of the time, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade will let the upgrade go through without removing things (but do check to make sure it isn't removing things), and,

(2) if there are just a few packages you don't want upgraded, you can place a hold on them. This can be done from the command line, but both muon and synaptic have a "lock current version" option that will prevent them from being upgraded.