Is there an official KFN policy...

[wizard10000]

...on whether we tell a user how to enable the root account in a *buntu distribution?

I see the question has popped up again and although I personally won't help anyone enable a root account I wondered if there was an official forum policy on this.

My own take on this is that if someone can't figure out how to enable root they have no business logging on as root, but that's just me

[dibl]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

Why not simply point curious users to the official Ubuntu guidance, which starts halfway down this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo

[GreyGeek]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

.....
My own take on this is that if someone can't figure out how to enable root they have no business logging on as root, but that's just me

I agree.

It's the same as someone asking how to open a tar file and compile the source inside. IF they have to ask that question then there is a LOT they must learn before they do that, and trying to do it without learning the necessary prerequisites is like asking how to take off in an F16 without having learned how to fly.

The most serious mess-up I've encountered in in the last several years supporting the couple dozen friends and family members occurred when one person gave his account password to his grand child. Being a "Window expert" the first thing the kid tried to do was download and install a bunch of Windows executables. Failing that he must have done some Googleing and got some fuzzy notions about root. He activated root and began trying to configure Kubuntu to be Windows. When he failed he just threw up his hands and left, leaving the grandfather with a boot process that produced a blank DE screen from which one could only use Alt+F2 to run apps. With that I was able to get him to run FireFox. I talked him into navigating to the Brosix website where he was able to run the applet which allowed me to control his screen, keyboard and mouse remotely. With a console I was able to restore sudo usage and delete the root password, reinstall the plasma desktop, erase "~/.kde" file, and reboot. When it came back up he had his desktop back. We changed his account password and restored his desktop and panel widgets. I asked him to bring his wife to the camera and explained to both of them that under NO conditions were they to give their grandchildren their account password, and only let their grandkids use the computer when they were around and could watch and supervise.

[wizard10000]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

Why not simply point curious users to the official Ubuntu guidance, which starts halfway down this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo

I could, I just wasn't sure whether there was an official KFN policy.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

On the other hand, logging in as Root is the shortest path to breaking your system, thus education by fire!

To add to wizard's comment, if they can't figure out how to do it and can't search the forum (this has been discussed ad nauseum) they really shouldn't be logging in as root.

Seriously, I agree and usually just refrain from answering those requests, but I like dibl's suggestion.

[wizard10000]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

...
Seriously, I agree and usually just refrain from answering those requests, but I like dibl's suggestion.

In the absence of any official rule I agree. I'll just do that

[kubicle]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

People will find some instructions anyway, regardless of what we do here

IMHO it's better to offer "correct", "informed" and "detailed" information...linking to the documentation should work nicely to that end.

[ardvark71]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

My own take on this is that if someone can't figure out how to enable root they have no business logging on as root, but that's just me

I would have to disagree. If we all "own" the copies of Linux that are installed on our computers, then that should include the right to have complete administrative access to the system, complete with warnings. It's kind of like the government telling us (in and with our own property) that we have to (by law) wear our seatbelts (except New Hampshire) and not go over the posted speed limit because it's been statistically proven that wearing seatbelts and driving at lower speeds saves lives. Otherwise, we pay pretty hefty traffic fines (at least in my state.) While the statistics in these cases may be true, I just don't think it's always the government's place to legislate a "solution" to a problem, whether real or imagined. The result of this has been, over the last fifty or so years, incrementally less and less freedom for everyone.

Just my two cents, I'm sure there are valid arguments for both sides.

Regards...

[eco2geek]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

So...what's the difference between potentially wrecking your filesystem because you know how to use "sudo" and potentially wrecking your filesystem because you know how to log on as root?

AFAIK a member of the "sudo" and "admin" groups can use the sudo command to do anything root can. Being able to log on as root means you don't have to type "sudo" over and over again when you're doing a bunch of administrative tasks.

[wizard10000]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

Being able to log on as root means you don't have to type "sudo" over and over again when you're doing a bunch of administrative tasks.

No disrespect, but this illustrates my point pretty well

sudo -i will give you a persistent root shell so you don't have to keep typing sudo over and over.

The question isn't whether someone should be allowed to log on as root - it's their machine and they can do what they like. The question was whether there was an official forum policy about helping users bypass security protocols - there *is* a policy against it over in the Ubuntu forums.

I work in enterprise IT. Where I work root passwords are locked in a safe and *no one* gets to use them. If you think you need root you have to get approval from IT security and the root password gets changed after you're done. Amazingly, sysadmins can do their job pretty well without a root login

[wizard10000]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

...If we all "own" the copies of Linux that are installed on our computers, then that should include the right to have complete administrative access to the system, complete with warnings.

I agree completely. The question wasn't whether you should have root, the question was whether there was a forum policy against helping people bypass security protocols.

As I said if someone can't figure out how to get root on their own I won't help them - it's certainly their choice on whether they root their own machine but it's *my* choice whether I assist them in doing so.

[dibl]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

The official guidance I linked above is replete with suitable warnings, and the rationale behind them, so the consequences for adventurous users need not be belabored here.

(i.e. it is also possible to start your barbecue with 5 gallons of jet fuel and a propane torch, it just isn't a brilliant method as compared to the recommended method).

[sixthwheel]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

but it's *my* choice whether I assist them in doing so.

Bingo! Linux is all about choices.
If someone want's to know how to run their machine in root it's your choice not to help them, as it would be my choice to do help them in a responsible way.

Unless there is some sort of board policy forbidding such help as there are in the Ubuntu forums, in which case it would be my choice to live with such restrictive policies, or not.

[claydoh]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

policy, what policy? We don't really have any other than spam/pr0n/rude or nasty behavior.

It isn't just that root access can be considered 'wrong' or 'dangerous' on *buntus, it is that the system is [i]designed[/]around this. Think the sudo/root issue as using a metric wrench on a US bolt. Sure, there is a size that is close and will do the job, but it may also make the bolt harder to loosen or tighten later on.

If I remember correctly the ubuntuforums policy on this was originally due to the massive number of people posting their problems in the aftermath of enabling root (and I suspect the endless arguments about the subject). In such a large and high-volume forum these sort of policies do make sense. They also have a policy on entering certain bash commands (such as rm -rf /) that cause havoc. If i am not mistaken, some of these policies have been around there since before they were an actual part of ubuntu/canonical.

I don't think we are at a point where we need such strict guidelines as our members' common sense, personal experiences, and tolerance seem to allow for this to not be needed here so much

[wizard10000]

Re: Is there an official KFN policy...

Thanks, claydoh - that answers the question