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**dibl** · Aug 24, 2011, 12:29 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

I would advise as follows:

Since I built my current desktop rig last November, I have only once ever run a task that saturated my 6GB of memory and used swap, and that was a task to convert 215 jpeg images into a gif movie. I have run two video-to-DVD encoding sessions simultaneously, with devede, and that did not use all my memory. So I would suggest you are getting ready to waste money on memory modules.

You can make a backup of your /boot partition if you want to, but I've never heard of it, and can't imagine what circumstance would turn that into a "solution" -- I guess if there was a media failure in the main /boot partition, but that's pretty rare, and if it happened you'd probably rather dump the hdd than continue using it anyway.

I'm not sure what the point of running both 64-bit and 32-bit versions of Ubuntu and Kubuntu would be. There's no visual difference, and very little performance difference, between the two. The 32-bit OS won't be able to use memory beyond about 3.2GB. Unless you need one of the very few packages that don't have a 64-bit version (I can't even remember which one that would be), you're not going to get any benefit from the 32-bit OS.

The swap space is architecture-independent -- there's no need for your sda9 or sda10 partitions, given that sda3 will make every OS happy. On that one occasion when I needed more than 6GB of memory, it turned that I needed not only my 6GB of memory but 15GB more of swap space. So if you want to cover the extreme case, buy 6GB of memory and then make your sda3 swap space 16GB in size, and you should be fine under any conditions.

**vinnywright** · Aug 24, 2011, 01:01 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

+1 for @dibl 's advice
just adding if you plan on runing an apache web server (you seam enthusiastic ) you may want to put /var on it's own large (as large as you think you will knead for the stuff you want to serve) partition !

VINNY

**wanderingarcticfox** · Aug 24, 2011, 01:20 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Hey thx Guys;
I am still working on learning and of course I'm coming into the final build crunch in about 2 weeks.
I want to make a few point's though; 1] I am not an OC'er or Gamer. I have no ill towards those that are for there is a-lot of room and freedom here as far as I am concerned. 2] I am interested in CAD open-source software both 2 & 3D and 3] if that CAD is 32 or 64 bit based.
I would prefer a multi-boot system but I think I might need a virtual system to span the 32 and 64 bit horizon. I could very well be wrong but if I knew I would not have to ask.
I also need to know how to create a folder inside an extended partition eg; /home or /photo or /music

**wanderingarcticfox** · Aug 24, 2011, 01:21 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

PS remember I am trying to learn 8) 8) 8) :P

**dibl** · Aug 24, 2011, 03:03 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Yes, it is possible that the CAD package of your dreams might only be available in a 32-bit package. So that would be reason to use a 32-bit OS.

However, given that you have a CAD package as your "driving" requirement for your system design, I would say do your research on your CAD package, if possible. It just seems a little extreme to install 4 operating systems for the benefit of 1 package.

Given that your CAD work will be all about the visuals, I would put the extra $$ that you'll free up on memory into a high-end graphics card and a really good monitor. I forget which card you said you were considering, but personally I'd go for a high-end Nvidia card, because their Linux driver is pretty good, and they update it often. I about didn't adopt Linux just because of the misery I was having with an ATI card, although I do see posts from people who have good graphics with their ATI cards. Here's an example of a high-end card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133324

and monitor -- I recommend at least 1920x1200 resolution for CAD: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...idescreen.html

Gosh it's fun & easy to spend someone else's money!

**wanderingarcticfox** · Aug 24, 2011, 03:51 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Well That is a lot for me to think about and I appreciate your input 'cause it is better to bounce this off others' than just think about it alone; My current monitor is a SamSung Syncmaster 955 DF Crt which of course is better than any LCD on the market; my bach-up is a SamSung Syncmaster 763 CRT so I think I have the good old stuff there.
The card I am planning on buying is an ATI 100-505606 Fire-Pro V4800 with 1 GB GDDR5 and direct x 11.0 and Open GL 3.2 with 400 steaming processors and a max of 2560 X 1600 resolution. It is a workstation card instead of a Video card if you know what I mean. It can more than handle web and e-mail; it is designed for CAD and high end graphics.
I do Understand you loyalty to nVidia that is the card brand this old Compaq is surviving on but I am somewhat leaning toward AMD and ATI; it is kinda like Linux as apposed to Windows and Intel. I do not need to buy from the main ad people but prefer to buy from the better bang for the buck. I am aware that AMD/ATI is somewhat slow on the uptake of the drivers but I think that is a minor point in my situation.
I am mainly concerned about how to do my initial set-up to include folders in the 'Extended' partition. I think I really can do this with-out using V-Box there-by keeping it more simple.
I am researching the CAD programs and which ones are 2D and 3D as well as 32-bit and 64-bit. I guess I am hoping for growth in this area where it might not yet exist.
Please keep hammering back to me; I learn more every time 8)

PS: yeah that's a nice card and monitor but I have a budget; the ATI I have on plan is a good entry level

**dibl** · Aug 24, 2011, 04:20 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Yes, I have a Samsung SyncMaster 1100MB -- I do appreciate a nice big CRT monitor. But with CAD, you will need high resolution graphics.

**kjjjjshab** · Aug 24, 2011, 08:42 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

If you think it is possible that you will want to run AutoCAD under Windows in a vmware image, etc. then do some research on VT-d or AMD-Vi and the possible need for two graphics cards.

People here can probably explain the need quite well if you think it is possible you will, in the end, want to use AutoCAD from within your linux desktop.

**oshunluvr** · Aug 25, 2011, 12:08 AM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

No reason to make a backup of /boot as dibl says, no reason to have a separate /boot unless you're using RAID - which requires more than one drive, or using a filesystem that grub does not support for booting - there aren't many. I suggested a backup install in an earlier post, but not a /boot backup.

Swap: With 16GB of RAM you don't need it. Truth be told with 16GB of RAM you likely don't need /tmp either. But to keep it simple at this stage - just drop swap. BTW, a single swap partition can be shared by all linux OS's without problems as swap is cleared at re-boot.

I sense there is still a little confusion in your setup ideas:
There's no reason to install both 32 and 64 bit versions of both Ubuntu and Kubuntu. The only reason to install Ubuntu and Kubuntu along side each other is to keep a "pure" KDE system separate from a "pure" Gnome system. If your intent is to try out both desktops, fine. But why both in 64 and 32 bit? The desktops will not differ due to the bit path size. Unless you have a reason to keep a system purely KDE or Gnome, why use two installs at all? Kubuntu is Ubuntu with a different desktop, you can install both KDE and Gnome and several other desktops in the same install and pick which one you want at boot time.

With your hardware, you really will benefit from 64 bit. If your selected CAD program is only written for 32 bit, it still may run with the proper installation. I play a 15 yeard old 32 bit game easily on my 64 system with just a little extra setup time. If the CAD still won't run - then you can re-install a 32bit OS then. Also - a 64 bit install won't require more HD space or a larger swap. The only difference as far as the install goes is a 64 bit kernel and libraries. They aren't larger - just wider in data path - which doesn't effect file sizes.

As far as sharing data files among installs - you wouldn't need VM for that. In fact it would make it almost impossible to share files or at least way more difficult. File systems are not 64 or 32 bit dependent. You simply mount whatever file systems you wish to access. A Virtual Machine is a very near equivalent of having two computers side by side. You can't "will" files back and forth between them just because they're near each other, you must connect them. Similarly, a Virtual Machine is not going to be instantly aware of it's host. It occupies some RAM and CPU time and shares a few devices, but it's not connected to your host - until you connect them.

Here's what I suggest:

sda1 - 20GB
sda2 - 20GB
sda3 - 20GB
sda4 - Extended
sda5 - half of remaining space
sda6 - the other half

With his you have room for three large installs - 1 to use every day, a backup of that 1, and 1 for experiments. I split the remaining in half so you can make backups of data or use the space in some other way later on. You have tons of HD space, even CAD drawings aren't going to use 500GB. If your CAD program suggests or requires more than 16GB RAM, then add a swap.

**wanderingarcticfox** · Aug 26, 2011, 04:44 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Originally posted by oshunluvr

Here's what I suggest:

sda1 - 20GB
sda2 - 20GB
sda3 - 20GB
sda4 - Extended
sda5 - half of remaining space
sda6 - the other half

With his you have room for three large installs - 1 to use every day, a backup of that 1, and 1 for experiments. I split the remaining in half so you can make backups of data or use the space in some other way later on. You have tons of HD space, even CAD drawings aren't going to use 500GB. If your CAD program suggests or requires more than 16GB RAM, then add a swap.

I had been thinking that V-Box would not be necessary so that is cleared up. I also see now why there is no reason to install a lot of similar OS's and mess with a 32-bit unless absolutely necessary
I am wondering though if I set-up as follows:
sda1 30GB Main OS [in case the CAD is a large program]
sda2 20GB for experimental OS's
sda3 60 GB Extended
sda5 /Home[username]
sda6 /Home[username]/Music
sad7 /Home[username]/Pictures
sda4 Extended all remaining space

Then install a secondary HDD internal as a back-up to set up as boot-able and copy the sad1 and sda3 {including 5,6 & 7} then I could periodically update the 5,6 & 7 and update the main back-up with updates once a month or so?
I think I might be getting a handle on this but need a few eyes to check it out.

The good news is my 1.5TB WD Black HDD and Phenom II X 4 970 Black are here and I plan to order the Mobo, RAM and ATI card a week from today. I am of course also researching the Catalyst Driver situation with the ATI card.
There have also been references to 'loading' The KDE 'front end onto Ubuntu. Is that what will make it easier to use things like DigiKam? I'm still playing with Kubuntu but have not yet decided which way to go. I have DigiKam on this system but it is not fully functional and I thought that might be due to lack of KDE stuff; not that I dare try it on this old box; still just getting a grip and trying to learn

**oshunluvr** · Aug 26, 2011, 05:22 PM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Basically, if you're using KDE as your desktop and you try to install a Gnome program - it will install, no problem and will "pull" with it all the needed parts of Gnome, but not the entire Gnome desktop. This works in reverse also (you can install a KDE app to Gnome).

If you install the entire Gnome desktop on Kunbutu, you can then log into a Gnome or KDE desktop, rather than just a KDE desktop. This is useful if you're unsure which desktop you will prefer or if you have multiple users that desire different desktops.

The only question I have about your latest proposed partition setup is why 3 partitions for /home files? It can be done this way, but it would be - in my view - needlessly restrictive. For example, you have filled your /home/Music partition and want more space for a new CD. /home/Pictures has room - so you have to re-size both partitions. A tedious and possible dangerous (to your data) operation.

Usually this type of separation is used when space on multiple drives is being mounted together. It is far simpler to leave /Music and /Pictures as folders under /home/[username].

If your intent is to separate data from settings, a better option would be to have only 2 partitions, 1 small for settings and 1 large for data. You would then mount the data partition as /data and could then symlink from /home/[username] into the various folders - Music, Pictures, Documents, etc.

A third option is to not have a separate /home at all, leaving it under / with your install and symlinking to the data folders as above. This is most useful for multi-booters who want to keep their desktops settings separate from each other while still sharing data.

Finally, why only 60GB for data? with 50GB for OS's thats only 110GB used out of 1500GB! - about 7%! Give yourself room to breathe, man

**wanderingarcticfox** · Aug 27, 2011, 06:32 AM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

oops, sorry about the simple math mistake and thanks for correcting me. I do not know what "symlink" is or means, I imagine it has something to do with linking things inside or possibly between partitions.

I am not sure about the strategy now, would this be better: ?
sda1 30 GB Main OS
sda2 20 GB for checking out other OS's
sda3 800GB Extended
sda4 ~650GB Extended
Use an External USB 3.o connected HDD for back-up

Or would it be better to let the sda3 contain all of the extended and not have an sda4?

**dibl** · Aug 27, 2011, 06:48 AM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

"symlink" is the Linux analogue of the Windows "shortcut".

**oshunluvr** · Aug 27, 2011, 08:48 AM

Re: Trying to plan for New Build in Sept.....

Originally posted by wanderingarcticfox

Or would it be better to let the sda3 contain all of the extended and not have an sda4?

Yes, you can only have one Extended partition. It would be better to have sda3 fill the remaining space completely and then use logical partitions within it.

A "Symlink" is kind of like a re-direct from one place to another. It behaves and appears as a folder to your desktop. They are simple to create and have the advantage of being named whatever you want.

In your case, you might use it like this:

You install Kubuntu to /dev/sda1 and /home on /dev/sda5 (the first logical partition). Your home contains folders named Music, Pictures, and Documents on it and you load your stuff into those folders.

Now you decide to try Linux Mint and you install it to /dev/sda2 and you leave /home within the main install as you should, because you don't want Mint messing up your setting in Kubuntu.

Problem is your music is over on /dev/sda5/home/[username]/Music and you want to play a tune while you're trying out Mint. So, you mount /dev/sda5 as /data and add it to /etc/fstab so it's there at every boot.

So now the path to music is /data/[username]/Music and you have an empty folder named Music in your home on the Mint install. So the final steps: you delete the empty Music folder and create a symlink to /data/[username]/Music and name it Music. Voilà! you now have a Music folder populated with all your tunes.

Even cooler is let's say you're playing with Mint and decide to rip a CD to your hard drive. You do it and save the files in your Music folder (remember, a symlink will behave just like any other folder). Later, you boot back into Kubuntu and once again - Voilà! the music you ripped while using Mint is there in Kubuntu also. Neat huh?

Apply the above steps to anything you want to share among all your installs.

There are some things to be mindful of when you're sharing data across distros: file and folder ownership will not automatically be correct. Most (95% ish) linux distros start username and groupname at #1000 by default, so as long as you are always the first user you setup at install time you should be fine. I've run into one or two distros that start at #500. If that happens, you'll want to change your user/group to match the Kubuntu ones.

I have even shared Thunderbird across installs without problems. Just be sure you're using the same or compatible versions of your programs sharing data.

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