How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

[esperado]

Kubuntu 11.04 64 bits.
Mother board Asus p8Z68-V pro
Audio chipset: ALC892 Realtek (Seen by Kubuntu as" Audio: HDA Intel PCH (ALC892 Analog) " ?)

I don't have the line input in the mixer, and the sound from this input accross the board at a fixed level, unmodified by any level position in the mixer.

And an other question. I have TvTime. Desinstaled after some problem and reinstalled. Works ok now, but it does not appears in the multimédia menu but in "lost objects". And any launcher works ok, but generates a warning after a while "error in lauch...". How to get rid of this strange and wrong warning ?

Thanks in advance.

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Have you checked System/Extra Drivers?

Hi, Teunis, thanks for your care.
It just propose a graphical ATI driver. The one that kill my Kubuntu ;-)
And no Tool like Alsa or Pulse Audio. The mixer is "Kmix". IN MULTIMEDIA.
But i can see some "alsa' modules and a lot of pulse audio modules in the installed softwares....
I tried a sort of ascii mixer (Alsa, if i remeber well) in Konsole, with much more sliders, but no effects neither.

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

No body can help ?

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

I don(t know what'd happens with this forum, deconnections, service unavaillable, often so slow.
I had tried Alsa mixer (looks like an askii version of Kmix).
I had tried Pavucontrol. I can see this line input in the "inputsl" window and a vumeter moving accordingly to the line sound's level. But his fader has no effect on the level you hear. It just change the vumeter level.
So, it looks definitively like a configuration problem...
Any way to have a *real mixer* with all my inputs (Micro analog , internal, line analog, line digital) and the master volume in one window, all that *working* together in Kmix ?
For the moment, all my tries in Pavucontrol makes no sense, and the "record" window stays empty..

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

As a pure newbee, i had spend 13 days in order to get my graphical drivers working, with no help. Did i will be alone whith my sound problem again ?
Is Kubuntu this kind of free stuff you find in the garbage by night and community help an urban legend ?

[GreyGeek]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Insults aren't going to gender any willingness to help.

Also, the forum problems have been noted, donations taken, and work is in progress on moving to a different host and using a different forum software.

When you opened the alsamixer, did you scroll off of the right edge to see if there were other controls out of view that you could adjust?

And, when you opened KMixer did you click "Settings" and choose "Configure Channels", and in that dialog drag all of the inputs and outputs in the left panel to the right panel?

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Thanks for your answer, GreyGeek. .I'm very sorry if you feel my message as insulting. I just wanted-it to be ironical, English is not my language and i'm a little upset (and disappointed) by all this time loosen just to get a working kubuntu when Seven and XP were 100% working out of the box on the same machine.
Anyway, thanks to your track to enlarge the alsamixer window: here is what i see now:
[img width=400 height=252]http://www.esperado.fr/fr/temp/alsamixer.jpg[/img]
Full size: http://www.esperado.fr/fr/temp/alsamixer.jpg
As you can see, this line input (in red) is in the list of faders. Better, his fader works here (and the master on this one too). But the sound from this input still accross the mother board an other way in the same time (with a fixed level) whatever the level of the line input or master fader. More, the two sounds (direct and via alsa) are not in phase. So alsa mixer can add the sound from this line input to the fixed one (with a little delay with the fixed one). (Am-I clear enough ?).
And nothing in Kmix.
[img width=400 height=136]http://www.esperado.fr/fr/temp/kmix.jpg[/img]
Full size: http://www.esperado.fr/fr/temp/kmix.jpg
Of course, no such a behavior under Windows 7, so it is not an hardware problem like a short circuit.

What can-i do, in Kubuntu:
1-To suppress this strange direct sound.
2- To have all inputs and outputs working in a guy mixer ?

Thanks in advance.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
About you site and forum, that's my job. If i can help, do not hesitate (for free, of course).
May-be you can have a look to Joomla and with, as components, 2 forums (one free, the other commercial) Joomlaboard and Agora ?
Joomlaboard is an evolution of SMF.
And, yes, your host...hum...unbelievable ;-)
best regards.

[GreyGeek]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Most of the time, for most of the people, including "newbees", Kubuntu just slides onto most PCs without a problem. Sometimes, programmers with lots of Windows skills make assumptions during the install that actually do not apply to Kubuntu, and so they put their fingers into the install "soup" and mess things up.

If you open a Konsole and issue "man alsamixer" it will explain how to use that utility. One of the keys that is useful is the F5 key. It shows all of the available control settings, some of which do not show up unless you hit F5. If hitting F5 causes alsamixer to quit you can, use this sequence:

sudo su
alsamixer -V all

which will make visible all of the volume sliders that may not show without using F5 or the "-V all" parameter. You have to use sudo su to log into root because issuing
sudo alsamixer -V all
displays the alsamixer help screen, which isn't what you want.


Your image of Alsamixer was difficult to read but it is obvious that you have everything turned off except that one "fader", which appears, if I read the fuzzy label properly, to be the "Line" volume control.

IF you see a "mm" at the bottom of a volume control that means that it is muted. If you make an input or output volume control the focus and then press the "m" key that will unmute that volume and replace "mm" with "00". It's a toggle. Press it again and it will mute. With it unmuted you can use the up arrow or down arrow to increase or decrease the volume. As long as the volume slider is green it is not being over-driven. When it turns white it is close, when it is red it is. Play with it and you'll catch on.

If you give that "Line" slider the focus in alsamixer, then press the "m" key, that should mute it. IF the line is giving you an AC hum, or something like that, you may have a broken grounding trace or wire inside your machine associated with the Line jack. Or, your AC power socket is ungrounded. Or, you have an ungrounded appliance plugged into the Line jack.

The master volume, the first control on the left side, should be on and the slider adjusted for the volume you want. The "PCM" and "Digital" sliders should be at maximum, without showing red. Most of the other volume controls should also be set to the top, just before they turn red. The mic volume should be set to about 1/4th the way up but should be co-adjusted with the Mic boost to give the best mic input without distortion. Mic input depends a lot on the application being run. Too much mic boost can give apps like Skype, which uses automatic volume control, problems.

The input or outputs without volume sliders are settings like "mixer output", "speaker" (on/off), "headphones" (on/off), etc...


BTW, Windows has the advantage over Linux in "out of the box" operations because the PC OEMs give Microsoft their hardware design data and specifications, which Microsoft uses to write their drivers for those devices. Microsoft uses ad rebates to control PC OEMs and if any share such hardware specs they find their per unit costs for Windows rising. (That's how Microsoft got Walmart to take Linux Netbooks off their shelves.). Linux developers have to reverse engineer most hardware specs. Even Intel, which releases a crude open source driver for their video chips, will not release specs for those chips to FOSS developers. I ran into that problem when I was running Mandriva 2009 PP and the xorg intel video driver would not work well in accelerated mode on this Sony VAIO VGN-FW140/E notebook. I worked with Xorg developers from September of 2008 till the middle of February 2009, when they finally created a fix for the problem I was having with the xorg Intel video driver.

Also, PC OEMs can and do change the firmware versions on the same model of a PC without notice. Because of that, you might find that Kubuntu 10.4 works beautifully with a laptop purchased last year, but doesn't work with the "same" laptop purchased this year, simply because an audio chip firmware changed from version 1.3 to 1.4. Microsoft is notified of the changes, given the specs, and change their code appropriately by patch, update or new version. Kubuntu (Linux) has to find out when a user comes to this, or other Linux forums, to complain that driver "X" stopped working on my new PC, etc...

And, it isn't always true that Win7 or XP "worked out of the box", especially on DELL hardware, or cheap, off-brand computers

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Most of the time, for most of the people, including "newbees", Kubuntu just slides onto most PCs without a problem.

For me, without any hack, the story began with a frozen screen, then, after i tried a proprietary driver so-called "tested by developpers", a tty2.
And tons of other problems

Your image of Alsamixer was difficult to read but it is obvious that you have everything turned off except that one "fader", which appears, if I read the fuzzy label properly, to be the "Line" volume control.

Reduced by the forum (it need some javascript tool to show images at their real size ). Just copy/paste their link in your browser to have the image full frame. No, they are not off, but at 0 at the moment i took the pictures to show the only line input.
Anyway, all my tries in Alsamixer does not change the fact nothing appears in Kmix, neither in the alsa guy.. And Alsamixer is not something i would like to use as an every day's tool.
[edit] tried to push everything full in alsa and reboot: Nothing more in Kmix.[/edit]
Thanks very very much for your long answer and your care, i will try my best to follow your tracks. But i'm not so confident, cCause i had tried most of the things yet, reading the included help from the beginning , with no success. . And I'm afraid for this line input i can hear with everything to 0 in alsamixer. A conflict between Alsa and Pulse audio ? If i read well, Kmix use Pulse ? Why 2 different tools for the same thing ?


OOT: I do not agree at some of what you said about M$ and drivers (i had developed few W. drivers for a company, long times ago). M$ give the specs, AND hardware manufacturers write the drivers. Worse, now, M$ ask a certification for the drivers, and the manufacturers need to pay for that cert.
I think Linux devs will never be able to reverse and develop by themselves drivers for all the hardware in the world (how can they ?). it was a crazy idea to do so, and a miss for Linux .Is-that the consequence of the way Linux manage the drivers, from the beginning of the story? I think it is. If drivers where asked during the install in the manufacturer's CDs, manufacturers would be obliged to write and join drivers for Linux (an a logo 'Linux ready). If, not, they would loose sells. Because those hardware problems, lot of people run away from Linux. And because less people, manufacturers do not develop drivers for a little market...
Linux NEED to break this infernal circle.

Take my ATI card as an example,. All what was offered by Kubuntu was a mess, genuine or recommended proprietary drivers : (black screens out of the box ;-(, TTY2, kernel panic etc...). And all that with a manufacturer (AMD/ATI ) witch offers drivers for his stuff and had published specs.
And now, this sound problem, my Nokia phone not seen, some other strange bugs to solve. And, of course, because things are not working, you are obliged to try blind and you break other things.
Did my install of kubuntu will take more than a month and 10 installs to work 90% of my equipment ? With that kind of problems, only a crazy guy like me (or you, the first time ?) would continue to try.
Result ? M$ own the market and can ask this crazy price ( more than 400 $) for their operating system.
Yes, Linux installs better on old equipment, but most of the people will try Linux (like me) at the occasion they change their equipment. New equipment, Linux will not work ? They will forget Linux, and manufacturers will not develop drivers...The infernal circle...
And who want an "old equipment's operating system" ?

I will try my best this time to tune my Kubuntu as far as possible and write an article about my adventures and feelings. A funny one ?
So complicated for a newbee, my God, with all those command lines.... To can print at the end: "I had installed Linux by myself, man " in the Guinness's book ? (Don't take-it as an injury, please, just black humour)

Thanks again, GreyGeek

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

More precise symptoms:
No line input *never and nowhere* available in Kmix.(see picture)
Now, if i mute the line input in alsamixer: no sound at all from the line input. (A good thing)
If i set the line input level at 00 in alsamixer, i still can hear the sound (a bad thing), level stay unchanged whatever master level position.
If i increase the line input level, i increase the audio level i can hear, but master level still have no effect on the output, even muted.
And, as i said, no harware problems, everything ok under windows seven or XP (triple boot)
Kubuntu Bug.
AN other strange thing, there is a sound card seen with the name of my ATi graphical card in Kmix (and not in alsamixer.)....
"BARTS HDMI AUDIO [Radeon HD 6800 series]" and: "Internal audio" ??

In alsamixer: two cards: "
1- "HDA Intel PCH", chipset: "ALC892".
2- "HD audio generic" with one input "S PDIF"

If i open 'Alsamixer guy', i see two pairs of empty faders , and Card "Pulse Audio, chip "Pulse audio".
And, if i type pulseaudio in the console, i get: "Daemon already running". (seems my system runs this buggy Pulse audio ?)
Did all that makes any sense ?

PS: PS: This ATI card have an"
Integrated HD audio controller
Output protected high bit rate 7.1 channel surround sound over HDMI or DisplayPort"

Kubuntu and other distro, because i can see similar problems with it on Google, confuse between the two: Realtek and ATI ?

[GreyGeek]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

So, they are all unmuted but none of them work with the up arrow key to raise their volume.

With so many problems that you are having, including a malfunctioning keyboard (which one did you select during the install?), bad video, bad audio,.... it appears that your LiveCD burn was using a bad ISO or the burn was bad. Did your Kubuntu iso pass the md5sum check, and did you check the burn on the CD to verify that the CD burned ok as well?

P.S. The certifcation process you describe with PC OEMs and Microsoft wasn't the way it used to be. At first PC OEMs created PCs that were, for the most part, OS neutral. It is when Microsoft became strong enough to dictate specs to them and they had to comply or pay more per Windows unit that they installed, did Microsoft control the chip specifications. Microsoft NOW gives out those specs with NDAs, which helps sustain their monopoly on the PC desktop. OEMs like DELL were allowed to offer "token" PCs with Linux preinstalled just to avoid the appearance of a monopoly.

It is NOT the fault of Linux that PC and hardware OEMs do not supply specs to Linux developers. I worked with xorg to get the Intel video driver to work with the Intel video chip in this notebook and in my discussions with them I asked why the Intel supplied "Open Source" video driver didn't drive this notebook properly and why Intel just didn't supply them with the data and specs on the chips. They said that the source code Intel supplied was minimal and only activated 2D. He also said the various PC OEMS do not incorporate the Mobil Express Series 4 chips set in the same way, so a single driver doesn't always work. So, while some users had an excellent experience with the FOSS Intel MES4 chips a lot of others, like me, did not. And yes, it takes a lot of time to reverse engineer a chip, especially when they release a new version of the firmware the very next year. As I said, it took from September, 2008 to February 2009 to get my particular chipset working right in Mandriva 2009 PP.

You mentioned ATI video chips. My last desktop used the ATI Radeon 9600 chip. For a long time that chip worked well in Linux. ATI released proprietary Catalyst drivers, which worked well. As time went on, that chip passed into the legacy category, and new versions of the Linux kernel were released. Now, when someone tries to install an ATI 9XXXX series video chip driver the new Catalyst 11 driver does not recognize the 9XXXX series chip, so they have to get an old Catalyst 8 driver from the legacy website. BUT, when they try to install it the Catalyst 8 does not recognize the new kernel. It's a "Catch-22".

[esperado]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

So, they are all unmuted but none of them work with the up arrow key to raise their volume.

They all work, in alsamixer, but input line doesn't across master volume. it acts as an independent fader direct to the output. Internal sound works ok in alsamixer. And no ones appears in Kmixer. My last description was precise.

With so many problems that you are having, including a malfunctioning keyboard (which one did you select during the install?), bad video, bad audio,.... it appears that your LiveCD burn was using a bad ISO or the burn was bad. Did your Kubuntu iso pass the md5sum check, and did you check the burn on the CD to verify that the CD burned ok as well?

I dont have any keybord problem, apart volume and mute keys, why ? English is not my language, that's why you can see mistakes in my posts ? Just the man between keyboard and chair have a problem, and for sure, Kubuntu 11 ;-),
My CD was verified both with the iso burner and MD5. no errors, it was the official iso. (i'm a newbee in Linux desktops, not in computers ;-)
Two different burns, same behaviors. You can exclude that. And you can forget about graphic problems, they are solved now and my two screens works perfect.
I can find several posts in several forums via Google, which describe exactly same behaviors with the same versions and similar hardware. I'm not guilty., neither my computer, neither my cd.
I was obliged to install first 10.04 with a wifi key (no lan), then upgrade to 10.10 in order to get the network, then upgrade to 11.04 (my mistake). I had no errors during all those updates.
Install from 11.04 alone was giving a black screen at reboot, and that was my first contact with kubuntu 11.04. So i tried 10.04 as i do not knew what's happened at this time.
The problem with audio is with Pulse. it recognize my graphic card audio, and not my M.B. audio chipset. or may-be it confuse with ALSA ?

[GreyGeek]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

The problem with audio is with Pulse. it recognize my graphic card audio, and not my M.B. audio chipset. or may-be it confuse with ALSA ?

Could be.

That you apparently could not raise or lower volume levels in alsamixer suggested that your keyboard wasn't working right. That's why I suggested it.

Personally, I don't like Pulse and I removed it. With KMixer you can hoover your mouse over the KMixer icon in the system tray and change your volume by rolling your mouse wheel up or down, without clicking on anything or having to open a volume control dialog. The last time I used PulseAudio you had to open a volume dialog to change the volume, which is a real pain in the neck.

You can use the Package manager to uninstall pulseaudio (but be careful because some KDE packages claim to require pulseaudio and could be removed when you remove pulseaudio.) If you happen to remove a KDE app that you want to keep, or your KDE desktop is messed up. you can reinstall your KDE desktop in a Konsole (or console) with

sudo apt-get install kde-plasma-desktop

Below is a list of the PulseAudio programs I do NOT have installed.

[GreyGeek]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Don't feel bad. If one lives long enough they will experience that event several times. I've been using Linux since 1998 and once or twice a week lately, I've learned something about it that I never knew.

As I used to tell my students: "We are all stupid, some in one thing, others in another", or "we are all smart, some in one thing, others in another".

[dibl]

Re: How to make Kubuntu 11.04 get the AUDIO drivers of my MB ?

Phonon/Pulseaudio was kind of a rough "gift" when it first appeared (kinda like KDE 4.0). However, in recent months I have become accustomed to working with it. This weekend I have been recording some old 33.3 RPM vinyl records, using a phono turntable connected through a stereo receiver in to the "Mic" jack on my motherboard. I used alsamixergui to set the levels in "rear mic" and "rear mic boost", and then pavucontrol to set the Input volume, and to mute the Output while I am recording.

You really need ALSA -- pulseaudio is not sufficient without ALSA, but pulseaudio gives you a higher level of control to turn things on and off, once they are enabled with ALSA. But I don't recommend trying to live with ALSA only, if you frequently plug in microphones, webcams, or other items that have a sound capability. ALSA enables the devices -- pavucontrol lets you control them.