Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

[Guest]

I'm not new to Linux, but I may be new to KDE, so here goes:

I've been considering a switch to KDE.

While researching Kmail, I came across a slew of threads involving issues with Adkonadi, Nepomuk, Strigi, and others.

It was hinted at in those threads that disabling all the databasing and cross-app integration was not recommended, requiring of manual removal, problematic when updates get pushed out, and capable of breaking basic applications like Kmail.

I have no use for desktop search, unified indexing, tagging, metadata, social sharing, or any of these technologies. I also haven't ever seen a need for comprehensive address books or password managers. At best, I'll never make use of them. At worst, they'll consume memory, CPU, SSD space, and cause information to leak out of applications.

I have no need for my applications to get too smart for their own good through crosstalk and centralization. For my own peace of mind, and resource optimization, I'd have to completely remove all of this stuff.

I know many people consider this a feature, not a bug, and I'm not here to start flamewar or diminish the value of these applications to those who desire the functionality.


Is there any way to keep the DE clean of this stuff, and each app rather self-contained, or is KDE simply the wrong fit for my needs, now and through future development evolution?

[claydoh]

Re: Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

while akonadi is required by kmail, and soon possibly other components of the KDEPIM set of pim applications, it isn't as obnoxious as you may have read about.

A rather decent description of Akonadi can be found here, more technical info here

Strigi (the indexer) and nepomuk (tagging, metadata, etc ) CAN be easily turned off. I do so because I have a rather old laptop (almost 8 years old now) that simply doesn't have the horsepower for it, though I would like to be able to .

if you want everything to be completely standalone, well, KDE may not quite fit that desire, though imo each app still is pretty much self-contained, it's just that the KDEPIM suite has a bit more integration, much like an office suite does. KDE is moving more in this general direction, however.

[Guest]

Re: Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

Thanks for the help.

while akonadi is required by kmail, and soon possibly other components of the KDEPIM set of pim applications, it isn't as obnoxious as you may have read about.

A rather decent description of Akonadi can be found here, more technical info here

It's not so much that it's obnoxious, only a bit inappropriate for what I was looking to do. I don't want to disparage a framework which will simplify the lives of the majority of users who can benefit from those features. The thought of applications getting too smart for their own good and exchanging information doesn't sit right, personally. For example, I'd like to keep business email in Kmail isolated from personal IM in Kopete, as they're totally separate identities with totally different levels of information - literally, neither should know nothing of the other. The programmers have built a great tool to holistically handle the data of the person both represent, but that level of integration isn't always right for everyone.

I also like keeping information modular so if an application should be compromised, by something such as a buffer overflow, the damage stays in that process, and can't access all personal information through a cross-app API, and can't break out of that application's scope in AppArmor.

My main concern is new "features" coming down from upstream enabling a new level of crosstalk between applications. It's hard to anticipate stuff like that and stop it in advance, which is why I was hoping to totally isolate each application by blocking the PIM integration. I've never had a need for information exchange so there's no loss, only precaution.

Strigi (the indexer) and nepomuk (tagging, metadata, etc ) CAN be easily turned off. I do so because I have a rather old laptop (almost 8 years old now) that simply doesn't have the horsepower for it, though I would like to be able to .

That's good to know, but is there a way to remove the package entirely to free up HD space, keep the daemon out of memory, and prevent updates from switching it back on? I saw a thread on the official KDE forums complaining about an automatic updates reactivating them as a dependency.

if you want everything to be completely standalone, well, KDE may not quite fit that desire, though imo each app still is pretty much self-contained, it's just that the KDEPIM suite has a bit more integration, much like an office suite does. KDE is moving more in this general direction, however.

I love all the apps I've seen so far, just not the crosstalk or how metafunctions are grabbing onto the information. Do you think I'd be fine going forward with not having to worry about upstream changing switching things back on?

[Ole Juul]

Re: Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

I am wondering what it is that enticed you to KDE. Isn't it the integration which is the biggest draw? Anyway, it is always educational to try different distributions, window managers, and desktops.

If it is KDE, and not Kubuntu that is appealing to you then note that KDE and individual KDE apps, can be installed on a lot of systems. Debian is a nice conservative choice, but the Aptosid and Mint distributions also come to mind. Most distros have the ability to run KDE.

I have what appears to be similar tastes to yours, and to scratch that itch and for a bit of a change, I'm putting together a BSD system with fluxbox and adding KDE apps to it. There are lots of possibilities and ways to go about it. That's the beauty of open source.

Oh, and welcome to the forums.

[jglen490]

Re: Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

I understand that the whole Strigi, Nepomuk, Akonadi thing behaves much better in 10.10 than it did in previous iterations.

However, there is no requirement that you actually use a "pure" KDE app such as the KDEPIM. I use Thunderbird and Lightning as my PIM and it works quite well. I like SOME integration and T-Bird with Lightning does that pretty well, without stretching out needless "arms".

[kubicle]

Re: Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

Strigi (the indexer) and nepomuk (tagging, metadata, etc ) CAN be easily turned off. I do so because I have a rather old laptop (almost 8 years old now) that simply doesn't have the horsepower for it, though I would like to be able to .

That's good to know, but is there a way to remove the package entirely to free up HD space, keep the daemon out of memory, and prevent updates from switching it back on? I saw a thread on the official KDE forums complaining about an automatic updates reactivating them as a dependency.

Depends. Strigi can be completely uninstalled, but akonadi depends on nepomukserver and will start the daemon (if you've disabled nepomuk the daemon doesn't really do anything, and doesn't eat up resources, save for a couple of megs of memory), so you can't completely uninstall nepomuk (although you can uninstall the virtuoso backend, for example).

As a general rule (with a few exceptions), upstream doesn't mess with user settings...if you've disabled nepomuk, KDE upgrades shouldn't re-enable it. It is of course possible that upgrades will install back stuff that you've uninstalled (if the new versions depend on those things more heavily)

I love all the apps I've seen so far, just not the crosstalk or how metafunctions are grabbing onto the information. Do you think I'd be fine going forward with not having to worry about upstream changing switching things back on?

Well there are no guarantees, heavier integration seems to be the trend nowadays (and not just with KDE), but you always have options in the open source world if KDE doesn't go your way in the future. You can switch to a different environment or to a different PIM suite if that day comes.

I usually recommend choosing the software that works for you *now* (whether that's KDE or something else) and not put too much emphasis on what tomorrow brings, as predicting future is very hard, especially in the fast moving open source world.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Considering a switch to KDE, questions about integration

I'm running 10.4 with KDE 4.5.3 upgrades. I have nepomuck & strigi turned off.
I recently switched from Thunderbird to KMail and I'm well pleased with KMail.
Be sure to use systemsettings to set KMail to your default email app.