partition scheme questions

[Kalem333]

Hello everyone. this my first post her and I sincerely hope to be on my way to becoming a fledging guru eventually.
However, I have hit a snag quite early. i have some general confusion over the proper way to partition my hard drive. my goals are to keep windows 7, have kubuntu 10.4 be my primary OS, and make sure it is set up properly.

I have never partitioned a hard drive before myself though and I am on edge doing so.
I currently have linux mint 8 helena and no longer wish to have it. should I dlete this partition first?
I have a gparted live C.D. already as well as a kubuntu live C.D.
I know a basic overview of what I need to do from the kubuntuguide.org site

at this point, i believe it should go something like this
windows 7-30Gb-NTFS filetype-boot flag checked
windows recovery untouched
grub boot loader 50-100 Mb
/swap with 3.5 Gb, more than my RAm of 3.3 so I can hibernate file type linux-swap

now I need to know what to do with the Kubuntu part. I know I need a /home partition to prevent a lot of possible nightmares in the future, and to allocate a large chuck of storage to kubuntu...


then I need to create an extra partition of minimal size just in case of future logival partitions that I can expand for if needed.


This is after eading for a couple of days. i know I am missing some things and was wondering if someone can point out what exactly I need to do.

Thanks in advance for any help or tips.

[dibl]

Re: partition scheme questions

I'm no Win 7 expert, but I one thing I keep reading is that it will puke if you use an external partitioner to resize its partition -- you have to use the Win 7 partition tool to reduce it, before you use the external tool to make additional partitions.

Having said that, you might consider doing what I do, which is to put Win 7 on a VM and run it with VMware Player. If graphics performance in Win 7 is a big deal for you, then that might not be a good solution, however. I'm running a 32-bit Win 7 VM on my 64-bit Linux box and have had no problems, including Samba connectivity between Win 7 and my shared data folder. You can make the VM 40GB if you want.

Also FYI, I made a Parted Magic bootable USB stick, which is a really useful tool for such projects.

[wizard10000]

Re: partition scheme questions

I'm no Win 7 expert, but I one thing I keep reading is that it will puke if you use an external partitioner to resize its partition -- you have to use the Win 7 partition tool to reduce it, before you use the external tool to make additional partitions.

I posted this in another forum earlier this week -

Careful with that though - especially if you want to reclaim a lot of space as the Vista/Win7 resizer won't move the MFT, limiting the amount you can shrink the volume. The MFT is generally in the middle or end of the partition. MFT under XP's version of NTFS can be moved, though.

Starting with Vista MS moved to a partitioning scheme that can define partitions on 1mb boundaries as opposed to cylinder boundaries. Only thing I know of that can move the MFT in native Vista or later NTFS is PerfectDisk - and there's a free trial version available.

If you use gparted to resize the partition be sure to untick the box that says "round to cylinders" - also, make sure the version of gparted you're using is v0.5.3 or later.

Also, if you're resizing a Vista or Win7 partition make sure to boot the machine into Windows a couple times after resizing the partition to let Windows rescan the drive and make its own internal changes - otherwise you may need a recovery console to get the machine running.

[oshunluvr]

Re: partition scheme questions

Kalem33,

I don't think this is as hard as everyone seems to think. First of all - windows 7 has it's own resize tool built in. It should allow you to shrink your C: drive and reboot. Defrag first (NTFS = Reason #19 why windows sucks) to free up as much space as possible.

I'm unclear as to what you mean by "grub boot loader 50-100 Mb". GRUB will install itself to your Master Boot Record and then "point" itself to it's install folder. The default for GRUB2 in Kubuntu 9.10 and above is /boot/grub and you don't need a separate partition for it unless you're using RAID for your linux install.

You don't really need to delete the Mint partition unless it doesn't fit into your new partitioning plan - you can easily reformat it.

You didn't say what size your hard drive(s) size is but here's what I suggest:

1. Shrink and resize windows7 and reboot to it to be sure it's all OK.
2. OPTIONAL:Make a backup copy of your MBR (Master Boot Record) just in case you totally trash your linux install and want windows back right away. To do this I suggest:

• Boot to a linux liveCD
• Insert a USB thumb drive or memory card. It should pop-up in Device Notifier and mount with one click. It should mount to "/media/disk"
• Open a terminal and verify drive devices and mount locations: type df and you will get a list of mounted devices and their sizes. Your thumb drive should be /media/disk and likely /dev/sdb, your livecd should be /dev/sda. This is important because you want a copy of your hard drive MBR not your cd MBR. Then type sudo fdisk -l and this will list your hard drive devices. Likely /dev/sdc and will show a partition list also.
• Assuming /dev/sdc, type dd if=/dev/sdc of=/media/disk/mbr-backup bs=512 count=1 - this will create a backup of MBR and your partition table on your thumb drive. If you need to restore it, we'll adress that in another post.

3. Boot your liveCD and create three partitions in your remaining space: 3.5gb for swap, 16-20gb for your install (8gb minimum), whatever is left for home. The installer will create and format these for you (select "Manual Partitioning" and define them as you need).

That's really all you need to do at this point. I can't really see a need to create extra partitions unless you know you're going to install more than one distro or want a backup install. Gparted liveCD can move and resize your linux partitions without difficultly later if needed.

Since you said you're new to partitioning, some notes on drive partitions:

A Hard Drive can be partitioned into primary, extended and logical partitions.
You may only have a total of 4 primary partitions.
1 primary partition may be an extended partition which can then hold logical partitions.
You may have up to 63 logical partitions in your extended partition.
Windows needs to be on a primary partition, but linux does not care.
Windows (for practical purposes) will not "see" your linux partitions.
Linux will allow you to access your Windows (NTFS) partitions.

Linux refers to partitions as devices and uses a sequential letter/number scheme like so:
First hard drive is "a", second is "b" and so on.
First primary partition is "1" and so on.
First logical partition is "5" because 1-4 are reserved for the primary partitions

The remainder of the device name is interface type and "d" for drive. Most modern kernels (Kubuntu included) emulate the SCSI interface for IDE and SATA drives so they have a uniform naming scheme.

The end result of all this information is - I assume you likely have 2 primary partitions for Windows7 - 1 bootable, 1 recovery. Leave those alone, create a primary swap and primary/extended and then put your other 2 partitions in the extended as logical partitions. Your partition list will look something like;

/dev/sda1 - windows7
/dev/sda2 - windows recovery
/dev/sda3 - swap
/dev/sda4 - extended
/dev/sda5 - / (for your linux install)
/dev/sda6 - /home (for your personal files)

[Yuri sss]

Re: partition scheme questions

I'm no Win 7 expert, but I one thing I keep reading is that it will puke if you use an external partitioner to resize its partition -- you have to use the Win 7 partition tool to reduce it, before you use the external tool to make additional partitions.

Not true. Recently, I used a current GParted Live CD, and it shrunk my Win7 partition without any problems.
Newest version: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gpa...ve-0.6.2-2.iso

The only one that pukes is me, when I have to use Windows (which I gladly didn't need to since quite a while now ).

[Kalem333]

Re: partition scheme questions

Thanks for the advice. I am making the switch because "I have seen the light" so to speak- I have no need to continue on with my learned helplessness that Microsoft taught me.

This has been absolutely wonderful. I guess I was over complicating things and thanks for pointing that out oshunlovr. also thank you wizard10000 and dibl, I read that too and was wondering about that.

arg, I wouldn't even keep windows 7 if it wasn't for some light gaming with friends. friends who shall be using linux soon...so yeah I feel you Yuri sss.
Besides windows 7 might as well be windows OS X.

[oshunluvr]

Re: partition scheme questions

Do some searching on the game thing - some games run well with Wine, Cedega, Crossover Games, or in a virtual machine - some don't.

Welcome to the wonderful world of linux! There's quite a few knowledgeable and helpful people in this forum so you should be able to get going on your change-over without too many headaches.

Remember linux and KDE are both chock-full of choice and it's all under your control. This means there's quite a bit to learn and many ways to mess things up! More importantly, it also means for each mess-up there's dozens of solutions at your fingertips so take it slow and don't give up.

Almost everyone here started with windows (or still has to use it) so you're in good company.

Dual booting is a good way to start because you still can boot to windows if need be. Once you start really using linux, you'll find you boot to windows less and less.

Let us know how we can help...

[Kalem333]

Re: partition scheme questions

Thanks for the welcome! I have been reading and slowly learning the basics and must say that I love linux not only for its reliability and excellent features, but the overall idea as well. community, freedom, and collaboration...who doesn't think those are good things to stond for?
I look forward to getting to know you all and truly becoming part of the linux community.

[Kalem333]

Re: partition scheme questions

Well, I successfully partitioned and installed kubuntu 10.4(sort of)!
I experienced some graphical glitches (which was partial fixed by setting the refresh rate to auto). It also froze up after I adjusted the touch pad sensitivity, and after restarting I couldn't get my touch pad to work after words. It also froze on me twice.
I believe the issue has to do with the fact that I apparently burned the ISO at x16...
Does anyone have any guides on how to burn at x4 when making a install disk?

[Snowhog]

Re: partition scheme questions

The burning speed, contrary to what I've seen others state, doesn't have to be at the "slowest speed" in order to produce a good burn. What is critical is quality CD discs. I have left the default settings for K3b alone, and when I burn an .iso file, the speed is set to 'auto' and produces flawless LiveCDs. The burn speed averages somewhat lower than the maximum supported by my CD/DVD RW optical drive, which for CD-RW is 10x.

[Kalem333]

Re: partition scheme questions

oh, alright. I had read some misleading info then, thank you for correcting me snowhog.
I am unfamiliar with k3b, and when I try to burn a ISO it doesn't have that as a supported filetype. do I need a certain package installed?

[Snowhog]

Re: partition scheme questions

In K3b, just navigate to the location of the .iso file and double-click it. K3b recognizes the file extension and knows that the action is to burn the file.

[Kalem333]

Re: partition scheme questions

Thanks, It worked once I transferred the file from my windows partition. My apologies for a simple questions.

[Snowhog]

Re: partition scheme questions

No need to apologize. Asking questions is how we learn. Application of the knowledge gained, and observation of the results when that knowledge is applied, is how we gain understanding. We are here to help others gain that understanding, to what ever degree they are able to do so.

Linux isn't (necessarily) "easy", but neither is it (necessarily) "difficult". The frame of mind of the user is a HUGE part of the process. If one approaches Linux with an open mind and without pre-conceived expectations, based on experiences with the "other operating system", then the amount of time it takes to gain the understanding is, IMO, vastly reduced.

So, ask questions - when you need to. Be thoughtful however, and provide useful information when asking. It aids others in providing meaningful assistance, and reduces the time it takes to do so.

If I haven't already done so, Welcome to KFN, and to a great Kubuntu Community.

[Kalem333]

Re: partition scheme questions

Well, I'm off to a decent start. i was having some major issues with desktop cube effects, essentially "breaking" the effects and showing the desktops as four desktops broken by white space. It also made my window buttons such as maximize/close/etc disappear, but both of those where fixed when I downloaded the recommended debugging symbols and restarted.

So I have two more questions to ask as a young Kubuntu-hopper to you helpful gurus.
Can I and do I need to download compiz fusion for KDE environment? I had it on linux mint 8 and loved it. i have similar effects pre installed in my system options but they are buggy, as said earlier. If i can what is the apt-get command to get them?

and also, My GRUB boot speed is horrendous. as in 4x slower than the mint GRUb I had. It takes nearly 2 minutes to boot, and I was wondering if that was normal or do I need to upgrade my GRUB?

Thanks again. i must say that having such great community support is so much comforting than trying Microsoft support...