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    frustrated new user to ubuntu

    I just got kubuntu 8.10, and came here to this forum for help after getting really frustrated with lots of sites that say they help newbies but they really dont.
    yes i read the forum post that is tagged at the top of this section.
    Im sorry but this entry is going to be a gripe session about how non-user-friendly this distro has been so far.

    A couple yrs ago i tried ubuntu gnome desktop, i liked it, but didnt switch from winxp at that time. now i have, and friends told me KDE is so much better so i got kubuntu. bad choice so far. perhaps this is a bad choice because of my misunderstanding of what Ubuntu is - i thought it was a distro of linux that was user-friendly for the average (or below average) windows user to change to linux. sure its a new OS and stuff to learn but keep reading and you will find that this is NOT an easy change for windows users.
    I would like to mention im not a unknowledgable user, i would rank myself as above average experience. (although if the customers i have to deal with at work are the real average for computer knowledge then i would be well above average).

    1st problem is keyboard language installation, i chose english install but the keyboard is messed up. this should be an àt sign = " and this should be a number sign = /. you`ll see more of this if you keep reading. other keyboard problem, is that i have a keyboard with extra button like one-touch email, webbrowser, volume, media back-forward-stop. when i tested gnome ubuntu couple yrs ago that all was working, now it isnt, perhaps kde doesnt like the extra button input i dunno, but it lessens my experience. so i went into regional & language settings and it said no language selected default english - wait, i chose US English 3 times during the install of kubuntu, something may be wrong on the kubuntu install program. i am in Canada but i know that for keyboard and language sets its the US English set that works.

    2nd problem comes from the real reason for me switching to ubuntu - is that my harddrive with windows on it had crashed hard, so i got a new HD and needed to install new OS, so here i go, into the world of linux.
    Ive always stored all my data on my 2nd harddrive, just in case of a crash like this. and ubuntu will not recognize my 2nd harddrive. There is no D:É (oh look more keyboard messup) drive and i found the file manager to be really odd, but that i can deal with, i knew linux has different file structure - the problem is there is 2nd drive and all my data are inaccessable. the file manager shows the HD Seagate 200GB, just below Trash and Root - but clicking, right clicking, press enter, is futile. if i cant get my data this whole linux trial will be smoked.

    3rd problem with this konqueror since it happens on other sites too, when i use keyboard shift and arrows to move around the text im getting weird flashes of lines on screen and random block letters appearing on the page. also i made a few spelling errors in this and konqurer underlines those words, so i right click expecting spell checker and instead get a menu 15 choices (wow thats alot for right click on text) and no option to change spelling, instead there is a link to a spell check program - i have to goto another app to spellcheckÉ wtfÉ (lol) why bother have the program underline misspellings if it isnt going to do spell checking. this default browser seems to be in need of some more beta testing.

    4th problem, so i went to change web browser, looking at changing to Firefox, so i went to Add<Remove software, waste of time, the whole list of Internet apps does not include firefox - gotta be a jokeÉ So i went to the help pages for newbies
    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3228.0 - section for Install Firefox - and huhÉ i need command lines to install an app! gotta be a joke. so i kept reading, and see the words `Some people are too lazy or too impatient to install Firefox the way it should be in Ubuntu (see section 1).```= WOAH !!! im not running RedHat or some other code intense linux, this is Ubuntu rightÉ supposed to be user-friendly to newbs rightÉ there is no way im going to learn code to do a simple browser install, ridiculous.
    ps. this webpage seems to misinterpret my keyboard commands, that are supposed to just move the curser around the page as i think of more to add to other paragraphs, as commands to do something in browser like go back, go home, save<preview. it was really annoying and i think there is some disjointed sentances in this post because of it, after coming back to the page i dont know what was save and what wasnt.

    5th problem is KDE. so far im not impressed, i thought KDE was supposed to be customizable andéor modular. all i see is widgets (whatever that is) and a normal icon based desktop. like someone took WinXP and styled it with new icon pics and integrated widgets. well, this KDE ;start; menu is better, i like alot more. So i thought about changing to GNome, and went online to lookup how to do it, lots of people have asked the same question, but neither on forums nor wiki do i find a walkthrough how to. best i got was this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1008453
    and i left out a really important step - how do i get a command lineÉ there is not a command option anywhere. after a while, i did find something else that was similiar called Terminal, and i entered the command line as specified in the forum article, and got a nice error = sudo apt command not found (and just like windows i cannot copy & paste from this command line), well looks that that idea to get gnome is also going into the crapper.

    6th problem, lack of newbie support. i wouldve thought that ubunuforums.org, or the link for kubuntu forum (http://www.kubuntu.org/forums-local-groups.php) would have something useful, but nope. nada nothing. im not here to learn command line codes, as these forums seem to think is the biggest godsend ever; I am here to check out what is supposed to be a better OS.

    7th problem was the Add Programs application. I dont have a perfect memory, but when i tried Ubuntu yrs ago on gnome, the add programs list was far more massive that this list in KDE. another reason not to use kde if there is not as many apps for it.

    default language problem, keyboard problem, konqueror problem, harddrive problem, add program problem, kde criticism, lack of newbie walkthroughs.

    Me, im thinking im going back to Windows. I really like the ideas of Linux, and Ubuntu, but it seems like they still have ALOT of work to do to get their distro ready for public use. perhaps the next release will be... i doubt it, it seems the ubuntu developers have been trapped in the same trap as everyone else - an advanced use is incapable of developing software for a non-advanced user = great job well done but not user friendly.

    Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

    #2
    Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

    I can se your frustration but don't give up Kubuntu really is user friendly

    as far as adding softwareyou can use adept package manager it should be in the k-menu under system and it is pretty self explanatory

    As for the hard disk you will have to make a mount point for that and mount it to access it there is
    a thread in the forums that can explaine this beter than I can

    Kubuntu has as many programs as Ubuntu it just has a different look and feel

    So PLEASE don't get upset if you don't understsnd something post a question most of the members here are willing to help and they are pretty good bunch of people here

    Comment


      #3
      Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

      I'd suggest running Kubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron), as it uses KDE3, instead of the still experimental KDE4, which, in my humble opinion, was included way too early and is not ready for public use yet, and certainly not ready for newbie use. KDE3 is still much more feature rich and stable.

      Don't get me wrong, the thinking behind KDE4 is sound and it has many great and innovative features, but it will be maybe a year before it's ready for public use, and before it makes sense to switch from KDE3.

      As for your specific problems, have a look at Adept, the package manager. There, you'll find Firefox and around 20 000 more programs.

      Regarding keyboard, there are probably several layouts (at least there are for Swedish, which I use). Try one of the other English layouts, as not all keyboards are equal, especially if it's a laptop.

      I think your Konqueror problems are also related to KDE4, at least I've never seen them in KDE3.

      As for newbie support, well, I'm trying to do my best. I hope it is enough.

      I think the reason you don't see so many programs in "add program" is that there are two packet manager front ends. One is the simpler one, which shows only "popular programs", in order to make it easier for newbies. The other shows the full list, and is the same for Ubuntu and Kubuntu (within a small margin of error).

      Hope this helps.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

        I agree entirely with Troberg - go with Hardy Heron to start with. You will find that that kde 3.5.10 that ships with Hardy is far less of a culture shock to those migrating from Win XP than than kde4.1.2 is- Not only in appearance but it's been maturing for a few years now. A number of the functions that many people (including myself) took for granted in kde 3 have not yet made it into kde4. Mainly little things but they can be irritating to an established Kubuntu fan, so what someone migrating will make of it I can only guess.

        My feeling is that unless you have some very obscure or bleeding edge hardware you will find it more likely that things just work for you. Take adept as an example. Whilst it doesn't have too many people singing its praises in Hardy it just works. In intrepid it's a whole new version and people commonly report that it misses programs although firefox is a new one on me. Like all things Linux, however, there is choice. You could install synaptic which, frankly, works better in intrepid. Also, whilst I note your resistance to it, you could use the konsole and type "sudo apt-get install firefox" then type in your password and start downloading.

        The main thing is that Linux is meant to be fun and clearly you can't say you are having that at the moment. Part of the reason may be that as a new user (which involves a learning curve anyway) you are trying to install the latest and greatest some of which is beta and may not work as you might expect. Flatten the curve a bit by using the established version dirst, would be my recommendation.

        Your second drive? I suspect that you can't see it because during the installation process you did not assign a "mount point" to it. It's not that obvious I'm afraid. At the time it asks you to set up your partitions look very carefully for it then.





        Comment


          #5
          Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

          it was my 2nd day with kubuntu when i wrote that,
          ive cooled down since, im willing to give it another try to get the problems fixed,

          based on what i was reading, to get stuff working, the forum recommends scrub the 8.10 Intrepid Ibex and install with 8.04 Hardy Heron. the supposed purpose of this is supposed to be to go to the tried tested and true KDE 3.5.

          i do not have fancy hardware on my computer. specs:
          desktop, pentium4 1.6ghz, 8 gig HD (for OS), 200 gig HD (for data), nvidia geforce 4200 something, 1 gig RAM; (basically 5 yr old pc)

          so how do i get recognition of the 2nd drive? can you point me to the documentation that describes "mount point"?
          i did not find that https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MoveMountpointHowto was helpful...
          is there a way to do it during the install of kubuntu 8.04?

          after i get this done, my next step is file sharing with my winVista laptop, im reading https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/internet/C/networking.html ...
          Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

          Comment


            #6
            Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

            You may want to review this:

            http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3099811.0

            #15 is your "mounting" question, for example.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

              The 2nd harddrive should automatically be recognized by Kubuntu during the installation, might depend on the filesystem you have choosen for the disk. If you have downloaded the live-cd you can try and test before you install. Just boot the computer with the live-cd and check which disks are recognized.

              Regards,

              rpw

              Comment


                #8
                Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                During the installation you will come to the partitioning part. You will want to format the partition that will be Linux Root (or /) and you may want to set up (format) a separate home partition which stops all your settings and data being wiped if you upgrade. There is an option to say whether or not you want to format. The 2nd hard drive should be visible but probably won't be seen as a drive as such it will be seen as another partition. You need to select that partition, format it if you want or select the no option if you don't want to wipe the data that is on it. Whether you format or not you need to assign a mount point to it which will then mean you can see it when you are up and running.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                  dear rpw,
                  Yes i agree the system should auto recognize each drive, either HD or CD or floppy (which i just found out also isnt showing up at all anywhere in kubuntu). The concept of plug and play was established over a decade ago = there is not any reason for this stuff with fstab, but i will do it if it solves the problem.

                  dear dibl,
                  Unfortunately i did not find your article helpful - however there was a link to another article (http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p10.htm) that was almost useful except its based on gnome.

                  Why do so many linux guides have command line entryÉ (thats a question mark by the way)
                  IMO the command line is the BIGGEST and most unfriendly way to do anything
                  This is Ubuntu rightÉ supposed to be user-friendly to newbs rightÉ there is no way im going to learn programming code for linux.

                  i grew up on a MAC, never saw a command line until we got a pc with Win98, still never used it. upgrade to WinXP command line is still useless. Ive used MAC OS 10.2 and 10.3, they dont have it. Why is linux using itÉ
                  BIG gripe = we are not in the 80s or 90s anymore - why is anyone using command linesÉ why would ANYONE think that newbie support should include command line instructionsÉ ...

                  Is it possible to correct any of these problems above (primarily harddrive, also floppy drive, and keyboard) without using command lineÉ
                  If not, then please understand the only command line i have EVER used is ipconfig /all when i was setting up a home network. If you want to give me a link to a help article that has command line instructions, ok fine i need the help i know that, but im not going to be able to make use of it if there are also no instructions on how to use command lines ...
                  Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                    tonite im running the install for kubuntu hardy heron 8.04,
                    all my attempts to do a manual partition setup failed, so i went with guided partition on the 8gig drive, no changes to the 200 gig drive.
                    hopefully it will come through ok....
                    Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                      It might be going backwards a little, start with Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy for example, after that, load the KDE desktop, and if you want, upgrade from there. I loaded Ubunu last feb, it is very user friendly, I went head first into it and have not looked back, my hd i Linux only, last month I loaded KDE and I love it. It is a tad slower than the Gnome desktop, but I live with it. Besides there is alot of support for linux. Somewhere there is an answer to any problem.
                      &quot;Just say no to the virus called windows&quot;

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                        i grew up on a MAC, never saw a command line until we got a pc with Win98, still never used it. upgrade to WinXP command line is still useless. Ive used MAC OS 10.2 and 10.3, they dont have it. Why is linux using itÉ
                        BIG gripe = we are not in the 80s or 90s anymore - why is anyone using command linesÉ why would ANYONE think that newbie support should include command line instructionsÉ ...
                        Because it's easier to use in a guide. Most operations can be done in a GUI if you prefer, but writing instructions for that tends to be a lot of work and very error prone, as there may be differences due to language and version. It becomes a lot of "click the K menu (or the XFCE menu if you are running XFCE), then click bla bla bla, go to the second tab, bla bla..." and so on. With the command line, interfaces seldom change, so it's just a matter of "copy this text and run it". Quick, easy, reliable.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                          Unlike Windows, when one uses Linux there are many different distributions, desktop environments, and programs to select from. So if we are trying to help someone with a problem, it is better to tell them how to do something from the command line, because the instructions will not be specific to their particular choice of what they are running. For example, most of the questions on this forum are about Kubuntu, which is the KDE desktop version of Ubuntu, which is the Gnome version. I run Xubuntu. If I answered a question from a poster and I don't know which desktop he is using, I would not be sure how to tell that person which GUI application to use to do what they want. But if I answer the question by providing the command line instructions, it will work in all of them.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                            Try

                            Kubuntu Guide ( http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Kubuntuguide )

                            or

                            Ubuntu Guide ( http://ubuntuguide.org )



                            UbuntuGuide/KubuntuGuide

                            Right now the killer is being surrounded by a web of deduction, forensic science,
                            and the latest in technology such as two-way radios and e-mail.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: frustrated new user to ubuntu

                              i got 8.04 installed. and i have the error from the harddisk now,
                              in Dolphin, shows the 2nd HD under storage media = 200 GB Seagate

                              error: Could not start process Unable to create io-slave:
                              klauncher said: "unknown process".

                              so that is my niche problem

                              what does it mean? possible issues? solutions?
                              Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

                              Comment

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