Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

[jonathan4]

Hi I have the hardy heron verson of ubuntu... and i tried to install KDE4 and made it unstable...
but im going to upgrade to 8.10 (a clean installation) and im asking this:
How do i get wireless network working?
is KDE4 more stable now (im NOT going to install KDE 3.5) or shold i stick to GNOME?
is it hard to install a new ubuntu over an older one?
I personally like KDE better but it has to be working not unstable crap!

[arochester]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

i tried to install KDE4 and made it unstable...

So YOU made it unstable!

How do i get wireless network working?

Do you know exactly what wireless you have got? Make? Model? If you don't then find out what chipset you have by opening a Terminal and inputting: lspci The answer should appear, something like Network Controller xxxx.

is KDE4 more stable now (im NOT going to install KDE 3.5) or shold i stick to GNOME?

I can only say that it gives me not problems. You can of course install BOTH Kubuntu and Ubuntu together and choose between KDM and GDM. Have a look at http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/kde .

is it hard to install a new ubuntu over an older one?

No. If you have a seperate Home that can be left. See http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3096164.0 and possibly http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/separatehome.

I personally like KDE better but it has to be working not unstable crap!

So YOU made it unstable!

[jonathan4]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

KDE "Konqered" GNOME and made KDM Default even if i didnt want it! (I had to force remove KDE to save GNOME, i Could not even open my files in KDE, but as said its 99% user error)
But are Plasma more stable now?

[perspectoff]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

IMHO Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex is not yet ready for a production environment and that is primarily due to KDE 4 (and I am using the most recent upgraded version).

My bottom line recommendation, therefore, is to install Kubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 LTS (which has KDE 3.5). It is not as pretty as Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex (with KDE 4), but is very reliable and functionally fun to use (more so than Ubuntu/Gnome). Furthermore, many large scale apps (such as Zimbra) are released for Hardy Heron LTS.

In general, KDE is better than Gnome. I used Gnome/Ubuntu until very recently, and switched back and forth between Ubuntu and Kubuntu. But after 2 years of this, I finally standardised on Kubuntu (KDE).

This happened for 2 main reasons: Windows users in my company found it hard to transition to Ubuntu/Gnome and pretty much refused to use it. However, when I installed Kubuntu Hardy Heron (and did some minor appearance customization), most of them didn't even notice the transition (and in fact commented on how much faster their computers ran). That experiment took me 6 months, but since then have installed Kubuntu Hardy Heron on more and more computers, and only very rarely have had a complaint (and that usually was referred to the rare program that only ran on Windows -- we have a few dinosaur programs in our business).

Further, networking functions in Kubuntu Hardy Heron work far better than in any other OS -- incredibly better than Windows Vista, and better than any other (Debian/Ubuntu/Kubuntu) Linux distribution I have tried lately.

Lastly, at home I love LinuxMCE -- there is no home system more powerful than LinuxMCE. LinuxMCE is built on Kubuntu. It integrates networked multimedia storage and distribution, personal video recorder, Myth TV, Asterisk VOIP and PBX telephony, mobile phone interfaces, remote controls, home automation, surveillance system, and more, all using Kubuntu components. LinuxMCE takes a lot of tinkering (but then again, it does a lot). Right now, my house turns on lights when you walk up the drive, turns on pool lights when you walk outside, displays the movie I am watching in whichever room I walk to, all automatically. LinuxMCE is the automated house of the future. It runs on Kubuntu because the components of Kubuntu/KDE are more powerful and flexible than the ones found in Ubuntu/Gnome.

Yeah, there are those who say you can run KDE on Ubuntu and Gnome on Kubuntu, but I strongly disagree. I tried that -- and got conflicts galore, system and software bloat, and seriously reduced performance. Don't forget, there a lots of different dependencies required for each module of each competing desktop. If you start using a lot of Gnome modules, for example, you have to install half the dependencies that Gnome uses. If you try to run KDE on an Ubuntu/Gnome desktop, KDE dependencies need to be installed. The KDE and Gnome dependencies tend to conflict periodically, and updating becomes a nightmare.

If you only had a small handful of Gnome programs in KDE, there wouldn't be very many Gnome dependencies that would be required, and that is manageable. (Very rarely do I find a program in Gnome that does not have an equivalent in KDE, but in those cases I have installed it and it runs fine.)

But I have never been successful in having both a complete KDE and Gnome desktop simultaneously, despite what a number of "superficial reviewers" claim.

So, I evolved to a Kubuntu KDE desktop only, and have been extremely happy ever since.

I keep a Debian installation and an Ubuntu/Gnome installation on different partitions of a testing computer, but that is it. (I tried Xubuntu, too, but that is a silly desktop). I tried Mythbuntu, but it, too, is limited. (It is better to simply install Myth TV on Kubuntu.) Ubuntu Studio sounds interesting (since I do video and sound editing in my business), but I'm not yet convinced that merely installing the primary audio visual programs in Kubuntu isn't a better course (I use KDENLive and have previously used Kino and Cinelerra for video editing, for example). I haven't tried Mint.

The other problem with specialized distributions is a matter of scale. What happens when the main developers become tired of it? It withers and dies. KDE has a very large development team (as does Gnome), so they are not likely to wither. When major changes are made, there are a lot of people working on them and working to resolve bugs.

For better or worse, such is the current case with KDE4. KDE4 is an ambitious and major leap forward, but for that reason, in November 2008, I am still experiencing far too many bugs with it. It crashes on a daily basis on everything but a web browser (even with a new install with current updates). Although it installs easily and works out of the box even for my laptops (I only had to manually install Atheros wireless drivers from Madwifi), it is not nearly as reliable as KDE 3.5 (that is in Kubuntu Hardy Heron). Still, there are a lot of developers working on it, and in a few months it will be working like a top. That is not likely with smaller distributions. When they have a major re-write and bugs, it can take a year or two to be worked out, if ever.

While I like the ideas of KDE4 (it is a visually appealing desktop and the widget modularity is forward-thinking), it currently takes me a good deal of tweaking to get it to work smoothly. For example, I can not easily access Windows folders on the hard drive (which I can in Hardy Heron/KDE 3.5), and my Samba (Windows network) shares are difficult to access (whereas they are immediately located in Hardy Heron). Customization of the desktop is quite limited, and many customizations aren't yet implemented (I can't change my clock appearance and fonts the way I want to, for example, like I could in KDE 3.5). There is a widget control on the screen that can't be removed -- a minor irritant, but persistent. Desktop widget controls pop up at random unless the desktop is locked-- very annoying. Menu editing is crippled.

But in a few months, KDE 4 will be as polished as KDE 3.5 is, with far more functionality.

So, for now, I absolutely love Kubuntu Hardy Heron with KDE 3.5 and will stick with it.

As of November 2008, therefore, my recommendation is to switch to Kubuntu (from Ubuntu/Gnome), but use the Hardy Heron 8.04 LTS version. Give Intrepid Ibex a miss, and wait for Jaunty Jackalope (to give time for KDE4 problems to be worked out).

---------------------------------------------------------------

Addenda:

I have discussed multimedia, audiovisual editing, and complex home automation types of implementations that work better in Kubuntu.

In day to day use, I prefer the personal information suite for KDE.

Groupware integration is better. Group calendaring, email, LDAP access functions and "bridging modules" are more plentiful in KDE, and the Kontact interface is somewhat nicer to use than the Evolution PIM from Gnome.

Let's say you have a small business using Kolab (a superb groupware server that runs on Linux). You have co-workers that access the Kolab server using their ancient Windows systems using Outlook.

You, however, have Kubuntu. You can use Kontact (or, alternatively, Thunderbird/IceDove or Sunbird/Iceowl/SeaMonkey Calendar) for group calendar access provided by the Kolab server.

You try that on Gnome and find that the integration modules to the server aren't as well-developed as for KDE, and the calendar program isn't as customizable for your taste as is the KDE module (Kontact). Suddenly you realize why you should be on Kubuntu/KDE.

You say that all you need is a browser and chat and a way to watch YouTube/Hulu? Well, then, you can use either Ubuntu/Gnome or Kubuntu/KDE -- it makes no difference. (You should be using Firefox or IceWeasel/IceApe anyway.)

What, you just discovered that the KDE Konqueror browser is the browser that Apple's
browser Safari is based upon? Wow, those people at KDE really know what they're doing, right? (but I still prefer Firefox/IceWeasel/IceApe)

I stuggled with Gnome's Totem for a long time until I discovered KDE's Kaffeine media player. Wow, that changed my web viewing experience. I like Kaffeine so much more than Totem.

Also, I used Amarok (instead of Rhythmbox) as my iTunes-like player even in Gnome (before I transitioned to Kubuntu). Turns out Amarok is the default in Kubuntu/KDE.

Konversation (IRC client) in KDE works like mIRC (the program I used for IRC in Windows then in Wine). Never found a program to replace mIRC in Gnome.

The Dolphin file manager for KDE (at least Dolphin3 for KDE 3.5) is one of the better file managers I have used. (Although I liked Paperport 9 for Windows XP -- the best file manager I have ever used). There is nothing like Dolphin in Gnome (Nautilus sucks). [As a caveat, though, Dolphin 4 for KDE 4 does not work as well as Dolphin 3 -- bugs still need to be worked out in the new version.]

I could go on and on -- Kooka for scanning (although Xsane is pretty good), Gwenview for quick image manipulation (it is very fast, and Gimp is too bulky and slow for most purposes), to name a few.

Some things are the same in both Gnome and KDE -- I recommend OpenOffice in both.

But on balance, KDE has far more modules that I like in every day use.

Hi I have the hardy heron verson of ubuntu... and i tried to install KDE4 and made it unstable...
but im going to upgrade to 8.10 (a clean installation) and im asking this:
How do i get wireless network working?
is KDE4 more stable now (im NOT going to install KDE 3.5) or shold i stick to GNOME?
is it hard to install a new ubuntu over an older one?
I personally like KDE better but it has to be working not unstable crap!

[aged hippy]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

An excellent, well-thought-out post, perspectoff.

You say "There is a widget control on the screen that can't be removed -- a minor irritant, but persistent."

Well, if you add this to the sources.list:

deb [url]http://ppa.launchpad.net/samrog131/ubuntu[/url] intrepid main
deb-src [url]http://ppa.launchpad.net/samrog131/ubuntu[/url] intrepid main

the awful little thing can be completely squished.

You need to search in Synaptic for plasmoid-cashew-off

[jonathan4]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

Is KDE4 really still that bad?
Man... I thought that KDE should have been elvolved sience when i installed it on GNOME.
Is it easy to install KDE 3.5 on 8.10?

by the way perspectoff good points on KDE.
Thanks.

[dibl]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

Is it easy to install KDE 3.5 on 8.10?

No.


KDE4 is still fairly early in its development life cycle, as compared to KDE3. I wouldn't call it "that bad".

Just one opinion.

[jonathan4]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

Well i will just use it for live cd for now...
se you all when 9.04 comes

[perspectoff]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

For me, wireless worked a little more easily in Intrepid Ibex than in Hardy heron, simply because Network Manager worked better (having been rewritten for Intrepid Ibex)

Still, I had to install my Atheros wireless driver manually (details are at http://kubuntuguide.org ). Other than that, though, I haven't had any problems with wireless.

[plm99]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

If multimedia apps are important to you, don't waste your time on Kubuntu. It's a steaming pile of crap when it come to audio and video. I have a Kubuntu desktop, but the only apps that work are from GNOME.

[Snowhog]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

Really? Kaffeine and Dragon Player are both installed here (I prefer Kaffeine) and they work flawlessly. I can play any of my commercial DVDs.

[vinnywright]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

If multimedia apps are important to you, don't waste your time on Kubuntu. It's a steaming pile of crap when it come to audio and video. I have a Kubuntu desktop, but the only apps that work are from GNOME.

you do realize that the last post on this thread (beside yours)was from November 22, 2008,

that sead ALL my audio and video apps ...KDE... Gnome or other work just fine and have for a LONG time.
OK so amarok has gone downhill a bit but that's just 1

VINNY

[GreyGeek]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

If multimedia apps are important to you, don't waste your time on Kubuntu. It's a steaming pile of crap when it come to audio and video. I have a Kubuntu desktop, but the only apps that work are from GNOME.

A steaming pile, huh?

Wow! I didn't know that. So, even though Kubuntu AND EVERY multimedia app I use, the dvd authoring tools, the audio and video editors, etc..., all play perfectly, along with HULU and all the media sites, you recommend that I immediately scrub it and replace it with GNOME? What does GNOME use? Sub-space communications? Is that why you channeled a two year old post?

[oshunluvr]

Re: Do i dare switch to kubuntu from ubuntu?

No - Gnome now has a time machine! But it only goes backward in time, which explains the interface...lol