Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

[mr_fosi]

While I'm not exactly a noob regarding partitioning I am faced with a situation that I'd like some input on.

I recently bought a Toshiba Satellite L350D and the first thing I did after booting it and checking out Vista was to pop in my Kubuntu liveCD to check for hidden partitions. There was one at the beginning of the drive ahead of Vista (of course) so I mounted it and took a look at how much data was actually there. I was surprised to find only 150M of the 1.5G partition actually being used.

Before mounting, I had thought it was just a restore partition but after finding that small amount of data I contacted Toshiba tech support and had two techs tell me "There is no hidden partition on your machine." I assured them that there was and that I had mounted it and discovered that it was largely useless. Then I browbeat them into sending me proper recovery media for free.

This brings me to my question: Can I expand my NTFS partition & file system backward and thereby roll that 1.5G mini-partition into the larger NTFS partition?

I've already successfully shrunk the Vista partition to make room for Kubuntu, but ntfsresize's wiki, man page and FAQ says nothing about whether one can expand an NTFS volume backward toward the beginning of the disk instead of the typical direction.

Eventually, I want four primary partitions: NTFS for Vista, FAT32 for the common area, ext3 and swap for Kubuntu. I hate dealing with extended logical partitions and thus, I would like to eliminate this useless partition while simultaneously reclaiming that 1.5G of space.

And yes, I know I could just scrap the NTFS partition, remake it, and re-install Vista but I won't have the recovery media for at least another week and I'd like to get this sorted before then.

Thanks for any input guys!

[Mak213]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

You would most likely have to use GParted LiveCD to do this. Delete teh partition and then click on the Vista drive and take the space up making sure it takes it from the space before.

You could also move the Vista partition to the front and force the blank space to the back of hte Vista Drive and then add it. Would take a lot longer to implement but that is a option as well.

[mr_fosi]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

I generally use fdisk when I am playing with resizing partitions because it is easy to remake partitions at a specific sector(s) (which is key when resizing NTFS volumes).

How does one move a partition? I was under the impression that once a partition is made it can't be modified directly and instead needs to be deleted and remade.

My main concern is that when expanding the NTFS volume onto the space before it, I might screw up the boot info and end up with a non-bootable volume. Is this concern misplaced?

[Mak213]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

I know that GParted has the option to move a partition. This is done by basically creating a partition at the end and then transferring the data to that partition.

You concerns are well founded. As the boot record can be messed up when moving a partition cause the boot records go by your current partition setup. But with Windows you can fix it in both XP and Vista easily.

[mr_fosi]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

If I use Gparted to move the partition (I like the sound of that!) and I end up with a non-bootable Vista volume, won't I need a Vista install/boot disk to fix the problem? Or could I boot with an XP insall/boot disk and use a utility (fdisk?) there to fix the issue?

In the past, when I have accidentally made a windows volume unbootable, I always fixed it by going through the windows install process again. Re-installing never changed any of my windows settings but it would always fix the boot issue while simultaneously obliterating GRUB (or LILO), which was easily fixed from within linux.

The only reason I am hesitant to make that NTFS/Vista partition unbootable is because I won't get my Vista/restore disk from Toshiba for at least another week and I want to be able to evaluate Vista during that time (I may decide to dump it and go back to XP). At the same time, the OCD power user in me is really irritated by that useless 1.5G sitting at the front of the disk and wants to remedy it.

Additional to all this, I want to get 8.04 w/KDE4 installed and see what improvements have been made since 6.06 (which I have been running for a couple years 8) ). Add on the fact that I am going to have to do extra work to get the new ATI graphics card and Atheros wireless working and you get one impatient computer geek.

Once the recovery/restore disk comes, I won't have any problem blowing Vista away and remaking the partition table how I please, but I am hoping for a more elegant and immediate fix.

[Mak213]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

Yes you will need the media. No disc now. No problem.

http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/window...disc-download/

Use that.

[mr_fosi]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

Useful link! Thanks very much!

I'm d/ling the ISO now.

I wonder if it might be worthwhile to go find a full Vista ISO so I can fully reinstall if I want to... I hadn't thought of that until now. <_< I do legally own a license afterall.

It's really a pain that PC manufacturers don't provide full install CDs for Vista like they have for all other recent versions of windows.

Heck, I got a full XP-only (no bloatware) disk for my last notebook when I asked DELL. The CD was slaved to the DELL-linked product key, but it would still do a full install of windows alone, w/o any of the DELL garbage software.

[mr_fosi]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

Well, I d/led that Vista recovery disk you linked and it worked like a charm.

I deleted that front-drive partition then used Gparted to expand the NTFS volume over the unallocated space. It look about 1.5 hours to get the entire operation done and when it was finished, Vista wouldn't boot.

I popped in the recovery disk, clicked on "Repair", one fix and viola! Vista boots again. Chkdsk ran (of course) and fixed a few "errors" then rebooted and I was back in windows.

I made up the common, linux and swap partitions while I was in Gparted so as soon as I finish this reply, I am booting with my Kubuntu 8.04 disk (sans KDE4) and will have her installed. I tried 8.04 with KDE4 but I don't really like the setup of the menu applet.

[Qqmike]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

just following this topic ....
Very nice, informational feedback mr_fosi -- Thanks for it

[Mak213]

Re: Expand NTFS filesystem backward?

Mr. Fosi,

Glad it all worked out. Like i said it was a long process to complete but i knew it could be done as i had done it just a few days ago myself on my laptop.

Glad that link provided some use. Yes you can download a Vista DVD ISO to do a full install if you wish. Technically it is only the serial that is covered by the TOS and all that. The media can be obtained any way. Take it from a Microsoft MVP. I have read the EULA and TOS extensively.

Glad you are now happy with the setup and getting your system to where you want it to be.

Cheers,
Mak