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**kubicle** · Mar 08, 2006, 03:57 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

The link is broken...you probably mean:
http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/

**robotgeek** · Mar 08, 2006, 04:01 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

Originally posted by kubicle

The link is broken...you probably mean:
http://doc.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/desktopguide-web/C/

Thanks! I was too lazy to preview!

**kubicle** · Mar 08, 2006, 04:59 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

Originally posted by robotgeek

Thanks! I was too lazy to preview!

Happens to us all

Anyway, looks like that is going to be a top-notch resource...surely answering the most frequently asked questions.

Are there plans to include this guide on kubuntu for easy access (like putting it to the desktop of a default installation)?

One thing I noticed after quick browsing is that in the Networking section there is information that is a bit misleading:

After it is installed, run the Firestarter manually (see the section called “Start a Program Manually with Root Privileges”) as to configure your firewall. See the section called “Run programs automatically when KDE starts” to start the firewall when your computer starts.

You don't need to have Firestarter (the GUI configurator) 'running automatically when KDE starts' for the firewall to function.

It could also mention 'guarddog' as an alternative to firestarter. (And maybe include links to the websites so people can browse some screenshots and read their documentation before choosing their preferred firewall)

**robotgeek** · Mar 08, 2006, 01:44 PM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

Originally posted by kubicle

Are there plans to include this guide on kubuntu for easy access (like putting it to the desktop of a default installation)?

Yes, this will be in the help menu/icon on the desktop.

[quote]
After it is installed, run the Firestarter manually (see the section called “Start a Program Manually with Root Privileges”) as to configure your firewall. See the section called “Run programs automatically when KDE starts” to start the firewall when your computer starts.

You don't need to have Firestarter (the GUI configurator) 'running automatically when KDE starts' for the firewall to function.

It could also mention 'guarddog' as an alternative to firestarter. (And maybe include ]
I will take out firestarter (icky gtk

) and put in guarddog since it's a QT app. I was unaware of the existence of such a app. Thanks!

**kubicle** · Mar 08, 2006, 03:05 PM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

A few more suggestions

:

1. Desktop tricks

The easiest way to run programs automatically when KDE starts is to launch when you are logged in. If the program is running when you logout, it will be automatically launched the next time you login.

This is a bit hard to interpret...Perhaps the the concepts of auto-saved and manually saved sessions should be described with a bit more detail :P

2. Partitions and Booting:
When mounting windows ntfs partitions, it's safer to use 'ro' (read-only) option than 'umask=0222'. (since you can override permissions with administrative privileges...umask won't protect against writing to ntfs with sudo, for example)

3. Appendix A (getting help)
Maybe you could add www.kubuntu.org and these forums on the list, it currently lists only ubuntu resources (which are useful too, of course)

**robotgeek** · Mar 09, 2006, 12:58 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

This is a bit hard to interpret...Perhaps the the concepts of auto-saved and manually saved sessions should be described with a bit more detail :P

Can you take a look again and see if it is clear now? If the website has not been updated yet, you might want to look at the source from svn (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository)

2. Partitions and Booting:
When mounting windows ntfs partitions, it's safer to use 'ro' (read-only) option than 'umask=0222'. (since you can override permissions with administrative privileges...umask won't protect against writing to ntfs with sudo, for example)

Can you give me the exact commands for this. I unfortunately don't have a ntfs partition, and this has been copied verbatim from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html

3. Appendix A (getting help)
Maybe you could add www.kubuntu.org and these forums on the list, it currently lists only ubuntu resources (which are useful too, of course)

Done!

**kubicle** · Mar 09, 2006, 02:22 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

Originally posted by robotgeek

Can you take a look again and see if it is clear now? If the website has not been updated yet, you might want to look at the source from svn (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Repository)

Crystal clear on first read now

Can you give me the exact commands for this. I unfortunately don't have a ntfs partition, and this has been copied verbatim from http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/index.html

Certainly:

Code:

command:
sudo mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/windows/ -t ntfs -o ro,umask=0222
sudo mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/windows/ -t vfat -o umask=0000

fstab:
/dev/hda1 /mnt/windows ntfs ro,umask=0222 0 0
/dev/hda1 /mnt/windows vfat umask=0000 0 0

Of course there are many other useful options to customize the mounts (like using utf8 charset and mounting owned by a user etc.), but perhaps they are a bit 'out of scope' for a quick desktop guide.

Done!

Excellent!

**robotgeek** · Mar 09, 2006, 03:11 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

Code:

command:
sudo mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/windows/ -t ntfs -o ro,umask=0222
sudo mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/windows/ -t vfat -o umask=0000
fstab:
/dev/hda1 /mnt/windows ntfs ro,umask=0222 0 0
/dev/hda1 /mnt/windows vfat umask=0000 0 0

Thanks...done.

**askrieger** · Mar 10, 2006, 12:20 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

I thought that this was a really good idea well executed. So, of course I have a number of suggestions to make:

Chapter 1: Section 1: bullet 3 implies that anyone, e.g. a total noob, can use the development release. I would add the sentence "But the development release is not reccomended for new users." An alternative would be to say "or explore the development release." Change the next sentence, "Each release will be supported for 18 months after it's
release date."

Linux Basics

irectories & File Sytems:/mnt entry "file systems on your hard drive that must be mounted, for example, Windows partitions.

Chapter 2:Adding, Removing & Upgrading Packages: Apt: (first sentence) "... graphical programs like Add, Remove Packasges and Synaptic", but this is the first mention of Synaptic. Simple fix: change Synaptic to Adept. But there may be an alternative: some of us think that (as of Breezy) Synaptic is significantly safer for new users than Adept. Because it is default configured to warn about potential package breakage. Adept (in Breezy) is not. If this has NOT been fixed in Dapper, it should be mentioned in the Kubuntu Guide.

Chapter 3, Music:Ripping Audio CDs: In Breezy (KDE 3.5.1), upon insertion of an audio CD, one is presented with a very M$ like popup that asks whether one wishes to play or rip the CD. This feature is not mentioned in the guide. Has it been removed in Dapper?

Video

VD Playback: item 2: In Breezy, support for AMD64 seems to be absent from install-css.sh. If this is still the case, it should be mentioned in the guide. RealPlayer 10: The link that is given will not work for AMD64 or PPC users.

Burning & Ripping CDs: Unless K3b now comes setup out of the box. I would recommend advising initial use of K3b Setup. This is epecially significant if an unexpected popup still appears on first use, if the setup has not been run.

Multimedia Codecs: Instructions don't work for AMD64, in Breezy. Burning an Audio...: Instructions don't work for AMD64. Rip a DVD with K3b: libxvidcore4 is listed twice.

Chapter 4, Internet: A general comment: Installing wireless internet access on a laptop is possibly the hardest task facing new users; especially since it is now impractical to use a wireless connection without a good encryption system. It is one of the most frequently discussed topics on the kubuntu forums. This problem should be mentioned up front with an imediate reference to help. If I had a wifi equipped laptop, I would be happy to provide this advice, but, after roughly 20 years of unix experience, nearly 10 with linux, I'm as perplexed as anyone by this situation.

Office: The omission of the line about OO.o Calc being able to open most Excel files seems to imply to the paranoid reader that Calc WON'T open Excel files.

Miscellaneous Tips:JRE: The JRE is at update 6, this document is not yet published and you're saying update 4. Why look more outdated than neccesary? Also, after some effort, I found that these instructions are valid for both i386 and amd64 processors. The tip should say so because the instructions on the Sun website are ambiguous and some statement should be made regarding java ppc.

I have more (BIG GROAN), but I'll post them tomorrow, Once again, I like this document and I'm trying to be helpful.

**robotgeek** · Mar 10, 2006, 03:47 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

Originally posted by askrieger

I thought that this was a really good idea well executed. So, of course I have a number of suggestions to make:

You are welcome!

Chapter 1: Section 1: "or explore the development release."

Added

Change the next sentence, "Each release will be supported for 18 months after it's
release date."

Actually, this is redundant and the original is actually correct usage

Linux Basics

irectories & File Sytems:/mnt entry "file systems on your hard drive that must be mounted, for example, Windows partitions.

Added

Chapter 2:Adding, Removing & Upgrading Packages: Apt: (first sentence) "..<snip>

Replaced Adept with Synaptic

Because it is default configured to warn about potential package breakage. Adept (in Breezy) is not. If this has NOT been fixed in Dapper, it should be mentioned in the Kubuntu Guide.

Adept in dapper has undergone a lot of changes, and I have been using Adept on dapper for a long time now without any issues like this.

Chapter 3, Music:Ripping Audio CDs: In Breezy (KDE 3.5.1), upon insertion of an audio CD, one is presented with a very M$ like popup that asks whether one wishes to play or rip the CD. This feature is not mentioned in the guide. Has it been removed in Dapper?

I overlooked this for the Ripping part, added back in

Video

VD Playback: item 2: In Breezy, support for AMD64 seems to be absent from install-css.sh. If this is still the case, it should be mentioned in the guide.

I have no idea, i will try to find out

RealPlayer 10: The link that is given will not work for AMD64 or PPC users.

Made note that instructions are for x86 machines, link for ppc/ad64 added. https://player.helixcommunity.org

Burning & Ripping CDs: Unless K3b now comes setup out of the box. I would recommend advising initial use of K3b Setup. This is epecially significant if an unexpected popup still appears on first use, if the setup has not been run.

I'll try to verify this and add instructions.

Multimedia Codecs: Instructions don't work for AMD64, in Breezy.

The package name has changed for Dapper, so it won't work in Breezy

Burning an Audio...: Instructions don't work for AMD64.

See previous point.

Rip a DVD with K3b: libxvidcore4 is listed twice.

Fixed

Chapter 4, Internet: A general comment: Installing wireless internet access on a laptop is possibly the hardest task facing new users; especially since it is now impractical to use a wireless connection without a good encryption system. It is one of the most frequently discussed topics on the kubuntu forums. This problem should be mentioned up front with an imediate reference to help.

Actually, I added a small wireless section with links to the wiki documentation earlier. The website may not have bee nupdated (it updates once a day)

Office: The omission of the line about OO.o Calc being able to open most Excel files seems to imply to the paranoid reader that Calc WON'T open Excel files.

I'll try to reword this.

Miscellaneous Tips:JRE: The JRE is at update 6, this document is not yet published and you're saying update 4. Why look more outdated than neccesary? Also, after some effort, I found that these instructions are valid for both i386 and amd64 processors.

I don't use java myself, so I copied this from the Ubuntu Desktop Guide. I'll ping those guys to update the instructions.

some statement should be made regarding java ppc.

hmm, i know all about this

I have more (BIG GROAN), but I'll post them tomorrow, Once again, I like this document and I'm trying to be helpful.

It would be much easier if you can send in patches

.

**askrieger** · Mar 10, 2006, 08:01 PM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team -- More Comments

As I threatened, here are some more comments:

Chapter 4, Configuring Your System

esktop Tricks:Run Programs Automatically: It might be useful to also advise people to set up session manager to restore a manually saved session and then to save a desktop configured exactly the way they want. This prevents losing one's preferred setup by accident, but causes the need to think about what one was doing prior to logging off. You might suggest both techniques for different styles of user behavior. For example: After item 3: "4. Alternatively you can setup KDE exactly the way you'd like it to start every time you reboot. Follow the instructions above, but instead of checking <b>Restore previous session</b> check <b>Restore manually saved session. Then setup the applications you want running in each screen, for example, konsole in screen 1, konqueror in screen 2, amarok in screen 3, and firefox ins screen 4. Once you have everything set to your satisfaction, click the K Menu button and then Save Session. Every time you start KDE you will return to this configuration." Item 5 would then be old item 4.

Desktop Tricks: Rar Archiver: While an unrar package is available in Breezy multiverse for AMD64, there is no rar package for AMD64. Is this one of the new additions for Dapper? If not, it should be mentioned that this is not available for AMD64, after all, Ubuntu has very little control over the availability of packages in multiverse.

Desktop Tricks: Preventing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace...: There is a reference to sample/xorg.conf_disablectrlaltbackspacegnome that is unresolved. In fact there are unresolved references to sample code throughout this chapter. I assume that these will be reesolved in the final document.

Partitions & Booting: Change the Timeout... Even more important than changing the timeout is the ability to change the visibility. As I recall, in my Breezy install, the grub menu was not visible unless one changed the hiddenmenu flag in /boot/grub/menu.lst. This would be extremely unsettling to a newbie attempting to set up a dual boot system. Add a section "Making the Boot Menu Visible". Same as prvious section except for "find the line hiddenmenu" and add the '#' character at the start of the line"

Hardware: Modems: ADSL Modems: For clarity, change the sentence to read "All PPOE and ADSL modems that use ethernet for the connection (and some that use USB) are supported by Kubuntu."

Over all, I thought this was a very well written document containing a lot of useful information. I hope you understand my comments are presented in the hope that you will find them useful. I think that the development of this document is major improvement in the usablilty of kubuntu for the new users that we as a community want to attract.

**robotgeek** · Mar 10, 2006, 10:43 PM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

I'll work on this and let you know. Thanks for the suggestions! It's really helpful to have outside review telling me what needs to change.

Also about the sample files, that will be resolved.

**robotgeek** · Mar 12, 2006, 02:49 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team -- More Comments

Originally posted by askrieger

Chapter 4, Configuring Your System

esktop Tricks:Run Programs Automatically: It might be useful to .... Item 5 would then be old item 4.

Rewrote this and made default.

Desktop Tricks: Rar Archiver: While an unrar package is available in Breezy multiverse for AMD64, there is no rar package for AMD64. Is this one of the new additions for Dapper? If not, it should be mentioned that this is not available for AMD64, after all, Ubuntu has very little control over the availability of packages in multiverse.

note added about adm64 and ppc

Desktop Tricks: Preventing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace...: There is a reference to sample/xorg.conf_disablectrlaltbackspacegnome that is unresolved. In fact there are unresolved references to sample code throughout this chapter. I assume that these will be reesolved in the final document.

this will be resolved.

Partitions & Booting: Change the Timeout... Even more important than changing the timeout is the ability to change the visibility. As I recall, in my Breezy install, the grub menu was not visible unless one changed the hiddenmenu flag in /boot/grub/menu.lst. This would be extremely unsettling to a newbie attempting to set up a dual boot system. Add a section "Making the Boot Menu Visible". Same as prvious section except for "find the line hiddenmenu" and add the '#' character at the start of the line"

done

Hardware: Modems: ADSL Modems: For clarity, change the sentence to read "All PPOE and ADSL modems that use ethernet for the connection (and some that use USB) are supported by Kubuntu."

done

Over all, I thought this was a very well written document containing a lot of useful information. I hope you understand my comments are presented in the hope that you will find them useful. I think that the development of this document is major improvement in the usablilty of kubuntu for the new users that we as a community want to attract.

Thank you for your suggestions! I've since made a few more changes to the documents based on your feedback. This forum is the only forum which has responded so well for reviewing, so thanks for the help!

Please refer to https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...ch/005496.html for sections i need help with. Not many in there, but there is no way I can finish off those sections without help from the community

**askrieger** · Mar 12, 2006, 10:34 AM

Re: Help the Ubuntu Documentation Team

The only one of those that I could test (nvidia settings) didn't work in Breezy. No such entry in K Menu. Is this another Dapper addition?