EFI is now mandatory? Canonical strikes again.

[GreyGeek]

*GG watching his CB theory going down in flames*


*now wondering off to look for other possibilities*

EDIT: Maybe not!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Google-Pixe...cAAOSw0otfR-Mv

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Google-Pixe...IAAOSwWSVePBFh

and there's more.

[claydoh]

*GG watching his CB theory going down in flames*


*now wondering off to look for other possibilities*

EDIT: Maybe not!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Google-Pixe...cAAOSw0otfR-Mv

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Google-Pixe...IAAOSwWSVePBFh

and there's more.

Just check the Gallium OS hardware list and check the compatibility. There is good support on machines up to about a year or two ago but each platform is different. Those used pixelbooks are probably better supported but I never looked tab them due to the cost [emoji54] at the time.



Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[oshunluvr]

So if I turn off the boot flag of the backup EFI partition(s), then the bootable EFI partition or drive becomes unbootable, my system is unbootable. Doesn't sound like much of a backup plan. Unless, of course, there's some way to set the boot flag without first booting.

The whole point of having a backup bootable disk is so you can actually boot to it in the event of an emergency. EFI is a limitation being forced on us - period.

[Qqmike]

I may have to check my own how-to! ... No, actually, I was thinking of the setup: what to do when you are installing all the OSs, each using different ESPs. Installing OSs sequentially, one by one. THEN, you'd boot a live DVD/USB containing the OS to be installed now, then access GParted, then turn off all irrelevant boot flags on other ESPs, make sure the ESP you want to use now is turned on, then do the OS installation (which will now point at the one-and-only active ESP turned on), then finish up, then turn on all the other ESPs, so now all ESPs are active. Like I say, I need to review my how-to, one needs to be able to see clear labels in the UEFI for the ESPs or in rEFInd, so when you boot the PC you can identify them etc. ....

[GreyGeek]

I may have to check my own how-to! ... No, actually, I was thinking of the setup: what to do when you are installing all the OSs, each using different ESPs. Installing OSs sequentially, one by one. THEN, you'd boot a live DVD/USB containing the OS to be installed now, then access GParted, then turn off all irrelevant boot flags on other ESPs, make sure the ESP you want to use now is turned on, then do the OS installation (which will now point at the one-and-only active ESP turned on), then finish up, then turn on all the other ESPs, so now all ESPs are active. Like I say, I need to review my how-to, one needs to be able to see clear labels in the UEFI for the ESPs or in rEFInd, so when you boot the PC you can identify them etc. ....

That sounds like a PERFECT way to prevent Joe and Sally Sixpack from ever installing Linux along side or on top of Windows. Wasn't/Isn't that the whole point of EUFI, since it really isn't secure anyway?

[mr_raider]

I may have to check my own how-to! ... No, actually, I was thinking of the setup: what to do when you are installing all the OSs, each using different ESPs. Installing OSs sequentially, one by one. THEN, you'd boot a live DVD/USB containing the OS to be installed now, then access GParted, then turn off all irrelevant boot flags on other ESPs, make sure the ESP you want to use now is turned on, then do the OS installation (which will now point at the one-and-only active ESP turned on), then finish up, then turn on all the other ESPs, so now all ESPs are active. Like I say, I need to review my how-to, one needs to be able to see clear labels in the UEFI for the ESPs or in rEFInd, so when you boot the PC you can identify them etc. ...

WHen I do that, I usually install Linux 2nd, to a separate drive, and physically disconnect the windows drive. I learned my lesson long ago not to trust installers.

[Qqmike]

GreyGeek:

That sounds like a PERFECT way to prevent Joe and Sally Sixpack from ever installing Linux along side or on top of Windows. Wasn't/Isn't that the whole point of EUFI, since it really isn't secure anyway?

Ha! You gotta point, sort of! ;-) In theory, assuming UEFI installation is working correctly, you should be able to install Linux right on top of an existing Windows simply by doing so ... and Linux is supposed to see the ESP that Windows has already set up for itself, and Linux then can easily dump its boot files into that same, shared ESP. I've seen it done lots of times. But ... many users here seem to report issues when they try to do that, so ... Hmmm ... mother nature ... When I was learning this UEFI stuff, I corresponded by email with Rod Smith a few times, who gave me some tips about managing multiple ESPs, especially turning them on and off.

In general, as you guys know, you got two things: (1) The official UEFI specs (see Wikipedia on UEFI); and (2) HOW the motherboard maker actually implemented the UEFI specs in its firmware on its motherboard. It's that 2nd point that's the wild card. And that is why I've stuck with ASUS, as it seems to me to be at least one of the makers who is doing a good, user-friendly job of implementing UEFI.

I think my how-to's show many ways of working around most common problem situations; but I do admit that sometimes it feels like you are a programmer having to monkey around at such a detailed level to trick things into going your way.

[Qqmike]

Btw, for people new here, or new to the subject and are finding their way around, the how-to's (mine) I'm referring to are here:

UEFI, GPT, ESP, GRUB2-EFI, (dual)-booting, fixing things
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...-fixing-things

And, of course, Rod Smith's work/website is the gold standard, as he is the UEFI guru. His work is extensive. Maybe start here, I'm not sure where the best place would be:

Linux on UEFI:
A Quick Installation Guide

http://www.rodsbooks.com/linux-uefi/

[woodsmoke]

I have been watching ALL of this thread with interest, since I really am "just a hardware kinda guy" and I learned a few things.

a) do not dual boot. I did it for SEVERAL years on various original OS Windblows laptops and it "worked ok", but what I also did with the first laptop was purchase a second internal drive that was formatted to FAT or whatever and just changed out the hard drive to run exclusively Linux . The very first, and last, operational laptop is the venerable Sony Vaio ( the same one that the new Bond guy sends his resignation letter on while sitting on the deck of his sailboat).

b) I ALWAYS purchased ASUS mobos in the fourth tier computer market stores that had mobos in stacks in "milk crates" back before Clinton( I think) sent all of the computers below a Pentium II to South America) ...I literally went to one store that I had frequented for a couple of years and the doors were locked and i banged on the door because I could see the employees throwing stuff into huge cardboard boxes and a guy who knew me came to the door and I asked "what is going on" and he literally said..."EVERYBODY is shipping their stuff to South America, we are just one of the last hold outs, sorry." and closed the door.

So much for what WE know that the government is doing...

Kind of lke the Obama "Cash for Clunkers" which ended up being shipped to the Carribean or parted out into the aftermarket..

But, I digress. I am now running no less than TWO Intel machines with integrated graphics and sound and the do ok, for both the work machine and the KPradigm Shift, video/audio/game machine.

Third. Asus boards ALWAYS worked when i was donating machines a during the last decade...I had absolutely NO problems installing ANY kind of Linux on them, except maybe DSL!!

So... I have RElearned a lesson...I will now...this week, start searching for the latest and greatest ASUS mobo and put it away, in a locked and sealed Skippy Peanut Butter carton ...NOT on Funk and Wagnal's doorstep... for when either of my present machines go south.

THANKS FOR THE VERY INFORMATIVE THREAD!

woodlikedASUSsmoke

[oshunluvr]

Since UEFI, falsely disguised as an "upgrade" that actually diminishes usability by adding a totally unnecessary and only partially functioning layer, is now forced on us by Ubuntu, I continued my quest to figure out a way to install Kubuntu 20.04 without UEFI.

Turns out - at least for now - Ubuntu Server is available in a Legacy version which will let you install it without the "Universally EVIL Firmware Interface." So I installed Ubuntu Server as minimally as possible, booted to it, then installed kubuntu-desktop. Seems to work perfectly so far, although this was on a secondary machine that I don't use daily.

BONUS: When you access the download page, a "survey" pops up asking you to explain why you need or want the legacy version. I go there weekly just so I can enter: NOT EVERYONE NEEDS OR WANTS UEFI AND CANONICAL SUCKS FOR FORCING IT ON US!

[Fred47]

About a month ago I installed 20.04 LTS and no Windows

[oshunluvr]

So you totally missed the point of this thread? I never said I couldn't install Kubuntu, I said I couldn't install it WITHOUT UEFI.

I can see the EFI partition in your post.

[TWPonKubuntu]

First, I'd like to thank all of those who contributed to this thread.

Second, while I ACKNOWLEDGE that some people must still use Windows, I threw Microsith under the bus over a decade ago. It was, personally, Very Satisfying.

Third, I'm greatly disappointed at the move to integrate Windows into the Linux universe. Lock that door!

I'm reminded of the Ring stories: "One Ring to rule them all"... I could extend that analogy with Sauron = Microsoft, but it is old enough that many younger people will not "get" it.

I'm also old enough to have experienced the OS wars between IBM and Microsoft (OS/2 forever!). That cost me money and business. I was happy to see Linux stand up in the same time frame. I confess that it took me too long to make the transition from Windows to Linux but I survived the withdrawal symptoms... There is much to praise about the Linux User Groups (RIP) which helped me "see the light".

Sadly, those days are fading away, overshadowed by Microsith (yes, I get the Starwars analogy, it is accurate).

Honestly, I don't know where we will end up, in the world of Personal Computing. It is becoming much less Personal and much more Corporate. Mr. Torvalds, please don't drink any more Koolaid!

I expect to die fighting in a pile of used computers, all running Linux! But I might just live long enough to see some alternative OS which still believes in the Free Software movement. I still have hope.

[rant off]

Again, thanks to those of you who are trying to help Linux users make sense of the pile of worms/snakes which is UEFI.

[jglen490]

I know this thread was started by oshunlvr, for whom I have the greatest respect. He always has something worth learning.

What I fail to understand is the great fear of EFI. Windows will run under EFI, Linux will run under EFI. Once installed, there is no difference in the computing experience between BIOS and UEFI. UEFI gives greater insight into the complexity of modern motherboards, and control over how YOU want to configure your computer. There will be a time when buying a motherboard that isn't UEFI will be difficult, if not impossible. EFI can be as complex, or as simple as you want it to be, learning it and applying it will be a very useful skill for the IT pro and casual user, alike.

[oshunluvr]

I know this thread was started by oshunlvr, for whom I have the greatest respect. He always has something worth learning.

What I fail to understand is the great fear of EFI. Windows will run under EFI, Linux will run under EFI. Once installed, there is no difference in the computing experience between BIOS and UEFI. UEFI gives greater insight into the complexity of modern motherboards, and control over how YOU want to configure your computer. There will be a time when buying a motherboard that isn't UEFI will be difficult, if not impossible. EFI can be as complex, or as simple as you want it to be, learning it and applying it will be a very useful skill for the IT pro and casual user, alike.

To be clear, I'm not afraid of UEFI. I just don't like it. I really don't like it. There is zero reason for it from my perspective:
It's adds several layers of complexity for no benefit.
It does not work when when trying to boot multiple *buntu installs unless you do a fairly complicated workaround.
It's much more difficult to recover from a damaged boot loader (can you even recover?).

and now Canonical has decided it's mandatory. I tried for a couple days to figure out a way to to a native install of 20.04 without EFI to no avail. EVERYTHING is a workaround.

I also don't like the politics behind it. Every other OS has to learn to work with UEFI because MS or whomever said so under some b^11s41t pretense of making us "safer." Granted, some of the issues I've experienced can be solely laid at the feet of Canonical, but wouldn't exist had it not been for the foisting of EFI on the rest of us.

I just don't think I should be forced to use it when other options exist and work fine. Screw EFI, screw the people at Canonical that decided to make it mandatory, and screw any distro that won't offer the option to use GRUB legacy boot.