My Positive [Believe It Or Not] EFI/Dual-Boot Experience

[GKNByNW]

The first time around for rEFInd, I did a dual-boot and installed both Win7 and Kubuntu as they normally are installed, following basically the same procedure as I used in the Original Post. After doing a "sudo apt-get remove grub-common" and "sudo apt-get purge grub-common" rEFInd still showed an option for GRUB. I'm not sure why this is, but if I had to guess it's because the two commands did not remove the GRUB files from the EFI partition. Also, all the GRUB folders & files were in their "usual" locations (/boot/grub/ /etc/default/grub etc.).

I don't know how the --no-bootloader option might effect EFI installation but I doubt you'll have any problem.

You're correct in guessing that I had no problem whatsoever. For the second install, I ran the aforementioned "ubiquity --no-bootloader" command from a terminal on the LiveCD. During the partition phase of the install, there was no option for choosing what device to install the bootloader to. As expected, after installation there was no NVRAM entry for Kubuntu and my system wanted to boot into Win7 until I intervened with the rEFInd live disc. After using rEFInd to boot up I found that the /boot/grub folder existed, and when running updates it kept wanting me to install/update grub-common.

So you can purge GRUB2-EFI (see Muon Package Manager for the exact package name(s); even if you use sudo apt-get purge < ... >). That may leave the config file /boot/grub/grub.cfg, which you can delete. In particular, the stuff in /usr/lib/grub (i.e., the master GRUB files) should be purged by doing this. OK.

Doing a "sudo apt-get purge grub-common" got rid of the earlier issue I had with rEFInd showing two entries for Kubuntu and rEFInd now only shows the Windows loader on the EFI partition and the vmlinuz file. Also, this time around, purging grub-common DID in fact remove all the grub directories and file. I'm not sure why, on the first test run, removing GRUB didn't actually remove GRUB it but at least I've learned that I can get things up and running easily enough without having to install GRUB in the first place. Like I said a few posts back, it's pointless to install GRUB if I'm just going to turn around and remove it right away.

If you go GRUB-less without using rEFInd, then it's a bit more complicated, using this and the Kato link therein:

https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...l=1#post309652

If you go GRUB-less, and you use rEFInd, then it looks a lot simpler.

I checked out that link and, while it's not necessarily over my head, it's way more than I think I will ultimately need to do. I've spent the better part of today playing around with rEFInd and it seems to more-than-adequately meet my needs/wants: An easy-to-use bootmenu that LOOKS GOOD and gets the job done. Nothing against GRUB but I've kinda gotten used to BURG and how good-looking and theme-able it is. Playing around with refind.conf will be my next step, followed by possibly changing the default theme of rEFInd. Changing the default icons should be easy enough if I so desire, and there was some info on Rod Smith's website about theming that I plan on reading soon.

So, all in all, I've learned some more new things today and I'm glad I can share my experiences here so that hopefully others can take something from them.

[GKNByNW]

Btw, if you install rEFInd, you have an option on it (when you re-boot) to open an EFI shell. Or install the EFI shell yourself on your own system -- SteveRiley tells how somewhere on this kubuntuforum. But, as I said, you really don't need it unless you go into some fairly expert work. Most of us simply use (sudo) efibootmgr.

I definitely don't NEED and EFI shell but it would be nice to get my feet wet, so to speak, and maybe learn some new things in the process. The rEFInd LiveCD has an EFI shell available but under the default HDD installation the EFI shell is "hidden" until you edit the refind.conf file to make it show that option at boot. Just thought I'd pass along the info.

[Qqmike]

The rEFInd LiveCD has an EFI shell available but under the default HDD installation the EFI shell is "hidden" until you edit the refind.conf file to make it show that option at boot. Just thought I'd pass along the info.

Thanks. I had missed that fact; I thought you had to specially install the shell.

Your comments about GRUB make sense, and you are not alone in getting rid of it. I keep mine (alongside rEFInd) just for the helluva it--to test, experiment, play.

Looks like you've come right along with this UEFI business -- nice work. You are one of our resident "experts" now! I don't think any of us know all of it, except SteveRiley certainly seems to have touched on about every aspect of it and probably has done it all in his experiments and posts here. A lot of people are putting it off, dreading the move to UEFI, but, as you know, they should jump in as it really isn't such a big deal -- it is simply new and different, right?

[GKNByNW]

Thanks. I had missed that fact; I thought you had to specially install the shell.

Your comments about GRUB make sense, and you are not alone in getting rid of it. I keep mine (alongside rEFInd) just for the helluva it--to test, experiment, play.

Looks like you've come right along with this UEFI business -- nice work. You are one of our resident "experts" now! I don't think any of us know all of it, except SteveRiley certainly seems to have touched on about every aspect of it and probably has done it all in his experiments and posts here. A lot of people are putting it off, dreading the move to UEFI, but, as you know, they should jump in as it really isn't such a big deal -- it is simply new and different, right?

Thanks, Qqmike, but I'm FAR from being an expert on all this. I'm just sharing my trials and tribulations because I figured if I can learn something from them then maybe others can, too. I still have a LONG way to go as far as learning about all this. I will definitely come back to this thread and post additional information should I have anything further to add as I play around with things.

[Qqmike]

I will definitely come back to this thread and post additional information should I have anything further to add as I play around with things.

Yes, please do. I'm always interested in this stuff, and I know others are also following these UEFU/GPT topics ("Member who have read this thread" -- 20 so far). I'm gonna try to find time to play with this GRUB-purge thing, and the ubiquity --no-bootloader option, and I'll check the rEFInd config file you mentioned for enabling the EFI shell.

[GKNByNW]

Yes, please do. I'm always interested in this stuff, and I know others are also following these UEFU/GPT topics ("Member who have read this thread" -- 20 so far). I'm gonna try to find time to play with this GRUB-purge thing, and the ubiquity --no-bootloader option, and I'll check the rEFInd config file you mentioned for enabling the EFI shell.

I'm on a different computer right now so I can't check the refind.conf file, but all the options are explained in excellent detail as you read through the config. It's really as simple as uncommenting the line that shows the shell, MOK, etc., and customizing that line to your specific needs. Kudos to Rod Smith in creating the refind.conf file in such a manner that even a layman like me can read it and understand it.

Have fun playing with GRUB and the --no-bootloader option for Ubiquity. For me it was pretty straightforward and you don't sound like any kind of slouch so I'm sure you won't have any problems, either.

[GKNByNW]

Was just looking up some info on MOK (Machine Owner Key), even though it doesn't apply to me since my PC isn't capable of Secure Boot. Not that I DIDN'T have faith in Rod Smith but it would seem he is the go-to expert on things, especially considering that an Intel employee quoted/linked to Rod's website from the Intel blog:

https://firmware.intel.com/blog/usin...oot-suse-linux

[Qqmike]

Yes, Rod Smith is referenced all over the place; and he has an impressive list of publications -- including IBM. His site is a good place to donate $5-$50 when one feels the urge to splurge. Rod has actually run tests on the systems he reports on (hardware and software and OSs).

[Qqmike]

I can't check the refind.conf file, but all the options are explained in excellent detail as you read through the config. It's really as simple as uncommenting the line that shows the shell,

Yes, I have edited that file. I can't recall or find what my edits were, though I have it recorded somewhere. I think the timeout was one I wanted to change; another was to see a text rather than a graphical icon boot menu; and there was a third edit I like making but don't have time at the moment to chase it down. The rEFInd config file is the "manual," really--self-explanatory.

[Qqmike]

Well, that was a frustrating test. It pays to read the instructions! I tried to enable the EFI Shell as a displayed option in the rEFInd menu. Wouldn't work, I triple checked it, no go.

refind.conf

Which non-bootloader tools to show on the tools line, and in what order to display them: shell - the EFI shell (requires external program; see rEFInd documentation for details)

Documentation showtools: Note that the shell, memtest, apple_recovery, and mok_tool options all require the presence of programs not included with rEFInd.

http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/configfile.html

That's what I thought. The EFI shell won't show unless you install it (to your system on disk).

[GKNByNW]

Well, that was a frustrating test. It pays to read the instructions! I tried to enable the EFI Shell as a displayed option in the rEFInd menu. Wouldn't work, I triple checked it, no go.

refind.conf http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/configfile.html

That's what I thought. The EFI shell won't show unless you install it (to your system on disk).

I apologize for steering you in the somewhat-wrong direction. That's my fault for not reading things more closely. Incidentally, I still can't figure out how to install the EFI shell. I know it's basically a simple matter of copying the requisite file(s) onto the EFI partition, but that's where I get hung up. I have absolutely NO IDEA how to access the EFI partition from inside Win7 or Kubuntu. I'm sure it's not that difficult but it's one of the things I haven't gotten around to figuring out how to do.

[GKNByNW]

Ok, so I found a way around my lack of access to the EFI partition... The other day I downloaded the rEFInd live CD .iso and used Unetbootin to drop it onto a flash drive instead of wasting a disc on something so tiny. Anyway, as we've stated in previous replies, the live rEFInd has an EFI shell while the installed HDD version does not. After adding "showtools shell, about, exit, shutdown, reboot" to refind.conf, there was still no shell option at boot, as you discovered as well. Copying the file "shellx64.efi" from the root directory of my flash drive to "/boot/efi/EFI/tools/" did the trick. Apparently I was wrong in thinking that the shell file had to be located on the EFI partition.

In the root of the flash drive are two other shells: "shellx64-refind-signed.efi" and "shellia32.efi". The IA32 shell has me boggled because I thought UEFI was only on 64-bit systems, but I'm sure I am wrong. I'm going to copy the "shellx64-refind-signed.efi" the "/boot/efi/EFI/tools/" to see what that's all about.

EDIT: Turns out I had to rename shellx64-refind-signed.efi to shellx64.efi in order for rEFInd to display it as an option. All of this is merely educational because, as I've stated before, I really have no need for an EFI shell. I simply am doing this so that I know how to gain access to these kinds of things should the need ever arise. When it comes down to security, however, it seems to me that if an EFI shell IS needed then the safer option would be to use efibootmgr to add it to the startup menu OUTSIDE of rEFInd. While that really wouldn't stop anybody from gaining access to a system and messing things up, it does remove it from rEFInd and make it a tiny measure harder to access.

[Qqmike]

SteveRiley's note on this, another view on it, from
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...l=1#post299154

I now, by habit, install the EFI shell on every UEFI machine I encounter. I strongly encourage you to do the same.

1. download the shell from Tianocore's repository
2. in your computer's EFI boot partition, create the subdirectory \EFI\boot (this is likely to be mounted to /boot/efi)
3. copy the EFI shell binary into this subdirectory, and rename it from Shell_Full.efi to bootx64.efi (the full filespec of this will be /boot/efi/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi -- wordy, but "standard")

You will not actually add the EFI shell into your UEFI boot manager. Instead, when you need to boot the shell, press your computer's boot interrupt key, which displays the boot manager menu. In this menu you'll see a list of installed boot loaders ("ubuntu" in the case a a default grub-efi install) and also a list of bootable storage devices. Select the device containing the EFI boot partition. In this case, UEFI will automatically look for any boot loader called \EFI\boot\bootx64.efi and run it. That's why you need to rename the downloaded file. I'd also recommend downloading a copy of the shell command manual.

Note the link to download the shell command manual (PDF).

As I've indicated, I'm not interested in the EFI shell, not now anyway. But it is good to try to compile a list of sources.

Arch wiki:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...ace#UEFI_Shell

[GKNByNW]

SteveRiley's note on this, another view on it, from
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...l=1#post299154

Note the link to download the shell command manual (PDF).

As I've indicated, I'm not interested in the EFI shell, not now anyway. But it is good to try to compile a list of sources.

Arch wiki:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...ace#UEFI_Shell

I skimmed through the ArchLinux Wiki article that you linked a while back and I must have been half asleep because none of it stuck in my brain. However, I am sitting here doing a facepalm at how boneheaded I am:

\EFI\boot (this is likely to be mounted to /boot/efi)

because I never even considered that the EFI partition would be mounted right along with the rest of the filesystem. Basically you just gave me the explanation of why what I did managed to work LMAO I simply thought that /boot/efi/ was just another folder in the / filesystem. I should probably just walk away and admit that I've had enough computer for one day

[Qqmike]

because I never even considered that the EFI partition would be mounted right along with the rest of the filesystem. Basically you just gave me the explanation of why what I did managed to work LMAO I simply thought that /boot/efi/ was just another folder in the / filesystem. I should probably just walk away and admit that I've had enough computer for one day

Well, I noticed how you were referring to the "EFI partition" (above) and should have said something. I like calling it the EFI System Partition (ESP), and, AFAIK, it is always mounted in the Kubuntu filesystem at /boot/efi (no matter where it is: sdxy, though usually it is sda1 or sda2). I have experiments here where I created three ESPs, at sda1, sda7, and sda10. But within each OS, its ESP that it is using is found at /boot/efi.

I can't recall what links I've dropped,
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...l=1#post346604
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...l=1#post373198
https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...l=1#post376040

I should probably just walk away and admit that I've had enough computer for one day

Ha! Boy, we've all had those days! But the driving obsession to do one more test or check one more source usually does ya in!