[SOLVED] installation [silently] failed

[rybnik]

On a machine with uefi firmware that came with windows 8 preinstalled, I tried installing opensuse 13.1 kde. I did not receive any errors whatsoever during the installation, but then when I turn on the computer, it just goes into windows without giving me any boot selection. As the release I tried installing uses kernel 3.11, I am led to believe that the problem is this, but I don't quite understand that thread fully. Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks.

To preempt some questions on what I did, let me clarify that I did all of the following before the install.

--set uefi/legacy to "both"
--disabled secureboot
--disabled "intel rapidstart technology"

After the installation, I tried changing the sata controller from ahci to "compatibility", but then I couldn't even boot into windows, so I changed it back to ahci.

On this subforum, I've noticed talk about uefi variables and boot parameters. I'm still enough of a noob that I don't know what those are about.

I remember now that the installer didn't ask me what directory I wanted to install the bootloader to. Could that be another issue?--that grub wasn't installed?

[rybnik]

Okay, so in another thread I see now that Steve Riley recommended using "uefi only" mode for dual booting. I'll change it to that, then try the install again, then post back here on how that went.

[SteveRiley]

The kernel issue has been fixed and backported to all supported kernels: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...x/+bug/1173423

Kubuntu 13.10 indeed may encounter problems when being installed on UEFI machines to dual-boot with Windows. The problem can be fixed after installation using BootRepair. The next release, 14.04, will not have this problem.

But you mention you're using openSUSE. This is a Kubuntu forum. While we certainly don't wish to discourage participation from anyone, you're more likely to find help for openSUSE-related installation problems on their forums.

[rybnik]

First of all--wow, Steve! You're really dedicated, posting on Friday night. I wasn't expecting a reply until at least tomorrow.

Okay, so in another thread I see now that Steve Riley recommended using "uefi only" mode for dual booting. I'll change it to that, then try the install again, then post back here on how that went.

And this fixed the problem. Or rather, it prompted me as to how to fix it. It was only when I ran the installer with the firmware set to "uefi only" that I was prompted that I hadn't set the efi partition to automount to /boot/efi. After I did that, the dual boot works fine.

But one question--the bootloader it gave me is opensuse-branded, rather than just grub. So will I be able to install kubuntu to another partition to triple-boot windows, opensuse, and kubuntu? If so, will kubuntu then install its own bootloader or use the opensuse one? But because of what you mentioned, I'll probably hold off on that until 14.04 is out.

[SteveRiley]

First of all--wow, Steve! You're really dedicated, posting on Friday night. I wasn't expecting a reply until at least tomorrow.

Ah, my Friday raver nights are now distant memories. I've got two kids in high school and my wife of 22 years is currently engrossed in watching a football game. What else am I going to do on a wet Friday Seattle night?

And this fixed the problem. Or rather, it prompted me as to how to fix it. It was only when I ran the installer with the firmware set to "uefi only" that I was prompted that I hadn't set the efi partition to automount to /boot/efi. After I did that, the dual boot works fine.

UEFI has a bit of a learning curve, especially for those accustomed to BIOS. But it's actually simpler to manage once you understand the details.

But one question--the bootloader it gave me is opensuse-branded, rather than just grub. So will I be able to install kubuntu to another partition to triple-boot windows, opensuse, and kubuntu? If so, will kubuntu then install its own bootloader or use the opensuse one? But because of what you mentioned, I'll probably hold off on that until 14.04 is out.

openSUSE uses GRUB, but with a fair amount of branding (like they do elsewhere in the system). I cannot predict what (K)Ubuntu's GRUB installer will do when it encounters a pre-existing GRUB. For one thing, Ubiquity (the graphical (K)Ubuntu installer) is rather basic. I don't use it to build machines -- instead, I build from the Ubuntu server ISO using the text-mode Debian installer, then add KDE after the installation is finished. Secondly, I've removed GRUB from my machines and replaced it with rEFInd, a simple and elegant boot manager that autodetects all bootable operating systems on all partitions and requires virtually no maintenance.

I would suggest that you convert your question into a learning opportunity. Install VirtualBox. In VirtualBox, install openSUSE into a new virtual machine. This VM will have openSUSE's branded GRUB, much like your "real" computer. Now power off the VM, attach the Kubuntu ISO to the VM, change the VM's boot priority to start from the virtual CD, and install Kubuntu into the same VM. This will give you a feel for how the installation will proceed. Does the (K)Ubuntu installer detect the existing GRUB? Can you boot both operating systems in the VM? Let us know what you find out.

[rybnik]

UEFI has a bit of a learning curve, especially for those accustomed to BIOS.

That would include me.

But it's actually simpler to manage once you understand the details.

sounds good. On that note, is the /boot/efi partition the equivalent of the MBR?

rEFInd seems legit. I should try that.

I would suggest that you convert your question into a learning opportunity. Install VirtualBox. In VirtualBox, install openSUSE into a new virtual machine. This VM will have openSUSE's branded GRUB, much like your "real" computer. Now power off the VM, attach the Kubuntu ISO to the VM, change the VM's boot priority to start from the virtual CD, and install Kubuntu into the same VM. This will give you a feel for how the installation will proceed. Does the (K)Ubuntu installer detect the existing GRUB? Can you boot both operating systems in the VM? Let us know what you find out.

Right! And that should have been obvious to me. Will do and report back, within the next week or so.

Ah, my Friday raver nights are now distant memories. I've got two kids in high school and my wife of 22 years

Regardless, I'm sure we all appreciate your time on KFN. Being at least a couple decades younger, nerdiness (and inertia) is my only reason for linux on friday night.

[SteveRiley]

On that note, is the /boot/efi partition the equivalent of the MBR?

Roughly. On an MBR disk, the first 512 physical bytes comprise the MBR. BIOS-based machines are designed to look for a bootstrap loader in this location, which occupies the first 446 bytes of the 512-byte total. The remaining 66 bytes comprise the partition table. The bootstrap loader is a tiny bit of machine language code that chainloads a larger boot loader, which loads the operating system into memory.

UEFI is designed to work best with GPT disks. In this case, there must be a FAT32 partition of type EF00 someplace on the disk. This is the EFI system partition, and is mounted on /boot/efi. This partition contains UEFI applications. In most cases, these "applications" are operating system boot loaders. Most UEFIs come with a very simple boot manager to display boot loaders that have been added to the firmware's NVRAM list. You usually have to press a key during system start to see the menu. You also have to ensure that each operating system has a corresponding NVRAM entry. Fortunately, this is handled automatically: the Windows installer creates the entry for the Windows boot loader; the GRUB installer creates the entry for the GRUB boot loader. GRUB also attempts to be a boot manager. It will configure its boot loader to be the system's default; GRUB then presents its own list of operating systems that it can detect, including Windows and Linux. Because GRUB tries to be both a boot loader and a boot manager, and because different distributions have different philosophies for packaging GRUB, there's not as much consistency for GRUB-EFI as there has been for GRUB-PC. As I said in another post here, GRUB is great big hack that helped overcome limitations caused by BIOS and MBR. We don't need anything so complicated now.

(To round out the choices... UEFI, when booted in BIOS compatibility mode, can boot MBR disks. And legacy BIOS can boot GPT disks if you're using a boot loader that understands how to deal with GPT's "protective MBR," but this is a weird configuration I wouldn't recommend.)

rEFInd seems legit. I should try that.

In the Linux philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, rEFInd makes for an excellent boot manager. rEFInd becomes the only entry in the NVRAM list. When the UEFI loads the rEFInd binary, it searches every partition for a UEFI-aware boot loader and presents them in a list. UEFI then loads the chosen boot loader and hands the system over to it, which in turn loads its corresponding operating system. Individual operating systems no longer need to concern themselves with managing their NVRAM entries.

Regardless, I'm sure we all appreciate your time on KFN. Being at least a couple decades younger, nerdiness (and inertia) is my only reason for linux on friday night.

LOL, and now it's Saturday morning. Off to bed, g'night!

[rybnik]

In YAST --> Bootloader, there is a checkbox for "Probe foreign OS." So in any multiboot environment, it seems like a safe bet to have opensuse's grub implementation as the default bootloader. I don't know whether the "probing" is as extensive as what rEFInd does, but it works for me. (I installed the rEFInd bootloader, but since it doesn't give me any advantages over the opensuse bootloader and was making booting a bit slower, I just reverted to putting the opensuse bootloader back at the top of my boot order.)

And yes--I'm beginning to see why UEFI is good. I was initially on the bandwagon of associating it with microsoft anti-competitive efforts, but that was "post hoc ergo propter hoc" and I see now that it makes things very configurable, a philosophy I really value.

[SteveRiley]

Does openSUSE also use GRUB? I'm not sure, it's been a while since I've looked. I'm surprised that rEFInd was slower for you. rEFInd's loader is very small, and it directly boots the kernel -- this process should be faster than multi-stage boot managers like GRUB and SYSLINUX.

Glad that you're enjoying learning UEFI. Its roots go back to Intel-HP Itanium days; it is not the Microsoft conspiracy some people believe. And if Microsoft had not mandated enabling Secure Boot for the Windows 8 certification logo, then none of the controversy would have arisen.

[rybnik]

Does openSUSE also use GRUB?

Yup. The reason I had initially thought otherwise was that I hadn't yet looked at any configs and my only sense of it was the gui boot selector, which they slap their own branding on. But yes, it's grub.

I'm surprised that rEFInd was slower for you. rEFInd's loader is very small, and it directly boots the kernel -- this process should be faster than multi-stage boot managers like GRUB and SYSLINUX.

I don't know what to say. That's just how it was. grub seems almost instantaneous, whereas refind took something like 7-8 seconds. lol, this age of caring about matters of seconds... But since yast lets me configure grub to list all OS's anyway, refind would just be redundant.