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    HP to make new server using linux and non-volitile memory

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/announ...011240408.html

    In fact Fink announced on Thursday that the company is working on a brand new free and open-source operating system and is inviting universities to help research and build it.
    He threw an little dig at Microsoft when announcing the news, saying:
    "We want to reignite in all of our universities around the world operating system research which we think has been dormant or stagnant for decades."


    On top of that, HP is working on a brand new operating system for The Machine based on Linux. And another one based on Android, Fink continued:
    "We are, as part of The Machine, announcing our intent to build a new operating system all open source from the ground up, optimized for non-volatile memory systems.

    ...
    We also have a team that's starting from a Linux environment and stripping out all the bits we don't need. So that way you maintain ... compatibility for apps.
    What if we build a version of Android? ... We have a team that's doing that, too."
    They are calling their new platform "The Machine". It is (or will be) a "state computer", the opposite of today's stateless computers.
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    The Machine's claim to fame is that it can process loads of information instantly while using hardly any power. HP wants this computer to replace the servers being used in today's data centers. But it also hopes the tech will become the basis for the next generation of PCs.
    ...
    And The Machine will not use Windows.
    ...
    "We want to reignite in all of our universities around the world operating system research which we think has been dormant or stagnant for decades."



    On top of that, HP is working on a brand new operating system for The Machine based on Linux. And another one based on Android, Fink continued:
    Here is where I think it will get squirrelly. We've seen this approach before, when Apple asked FOSS FreeBSD programmers to pitch in and help build "Darwin", which Apple plundered without returning any significant modifications back to the FreeBSD community. Apple even took Konqueror and made it the basis of their Safari browser, without returning anything to the KDE community. They did their exploitation by making the hardware interface (i.e., like libc6 library) a proprietary binary that only had the entrance ports public. When coders looked at the FOSS code they created but Apple modified all they saw were software hooks into proprietary binary blobs, blobs which they didn't have access to.

    And, IIRC, it was Steve Riley who pointed out that Microsoft is already selling smartphones that are running Android, so proprietary hardware companies using FOSS isn't new.


    The concept of a "state" is not new, either. Both machines and software can have "states", but it has been a lot easier to maintain a state in software than in hardware because of past limitations on the amount of memory available to hardware, since there can be only 2^N states in hardware, where "N" is the number of memory bits available. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_%...ypes_of_states


    An aside:
    Martin Fink's reference to "operating system research which we think has been dormant or stagnant for decades" recalls a time in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and my first experience with a "state" computer.

    In the spring of 1981, I flew myself and two of my Apple clients to a computer show at Springfield, Ill. They were local farmers using their new Apple's to do farm accounting, but were wanting to look at different software, and hardware if necessary, because spreadsheets and text editors didn't fill their needs. We flew there to see if there was new farm software available. Our plan was simple. They'd test the software and I'd test the hardware, if it wasn't an Apple.

    The giant building had a couple dozen vendor stations around its perimeter. We went to one after the other. Either the software was bad or the hardware was junk.

    Then we came to "DAVID". "DAVID" was one of a family of state computers made by the Logical Machine Corporation (LOMAC). The other members of the family were TINA, ADAM and GOLIATH. DAVID, like its siblings, is what is called a "State Machine", which usually depends on non-volatile memory. There is little on the Internet about this family of computers, but I did find this magazine article from March of 1981, "ADAM and Edlin", in which the marketing VP of LMC responds to criticism of "ADAM".

    Ned and Steve found "DAVID"'s software unique but workable. While Ned was playing with the software I asked Buddy Miller III what would happen if the power went out. He said "Like this?" and yanked the power cord from its socket. DAVID immediately blinked out. He then plugged it in and DAVID rebooted and returned to exactly the same place it was at when the cord was pulled. Ned was returned to exactly where he was when the machine suddenly lost power. The "state" of the machine and software had been preserved. It was perfect except for one thing, the price. But, Buddy also told us about "SAVVY", an "artificial intelligence" program, as he mislabelled it, which allowed one to communicate with the machine in ordinary English. And, it was being put onto a peripheral card for both the IBM PC and the Apple PC. That conversation about SAVVY (Excalibur Corporation) led to another adventure in my life, but that is a story for another time.

    DAVID died with LOMAC. HP want's to resurrect it! I wish them well, but I doubt it will benefit Linux or FOSS much. IF HP sold a Personal Computer which was a state machine running a modified (but proprietary) version of Linux, would you buy it? If their proprietary model prevented a timely update of security and bugs patches, like such as with Windows, would you still buy "The PC Machine"?

    EDIT:
    "The Machine" uses (or will use) what are called Memistors (memory +resistors):
    What is a memristor? Memristors are basically a fourth class of electrical circuit, joining the resistor, the capacitor, and the inductor, that exhibit their unique properties primarily at the nanoscale. Theoretically, Memristors, a concatenation of “memory resistors”, are a type of passive circuit elements that maintain a relationship between the time integrals of current and voltage across a two terminal element. Thus, a memristors resistance varies according to a devices memristance function, allowing, via tiny read charges, access to a “history” of applied voltage. The material implementation of memristive effects can be determined in part by the presence of hysteresis (an accelerating rate of change as an object moves from one state to another) which, like many other non-linear “anomalies” in contemporary circuit theory, turns out to be less an anomaly than a fundamental property of passive circuitry.

    Until recently, when HP Labs under Stanley Williams developed the first stable prototype, memristance as a property of a known material was nearly nonexistant. The memristance effect at non-nanoscale distances is dwarfed by other electronic and field effects, until scales and materials that are nanometers in size are utilized. At the nanoscale, such properties have even been observed in action prior to the HP Lab prototypes.
    Stanley Williams should get a Nobel (or some other significant) prize for this. First theorized in 1971, it has taken 53 years to create a working prototype.
    Last edited by GreyGeek; Jun 12, 2014, 08:14 AM.
    "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
    – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

    #2
    Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
    Apple even took Konqueror and made it the basis of their Safari browser, without returning anything to the KDE community.
    This is why strong copyleft licenses are better for the community (if a company improves it they improve it for everyone, because they have to ship it with the source code).

    Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
    Here is where I think it will get squirrelly. We've seen this approach before, when Apple asked FOSS FreeBSD programmers to pitch in and help build "Darwin", which Apple plundered without returning any significant modifications back to the FreeBSD community
    ...
    They did their exploitation by making the hardware interface (i.e., like libc6 library) a proprietary binary that only had the entrance ports public. When coders looked at the FOSS code they created but Apple modified all they saw were software hooks into proprietary binary blobs, blobs which they didn't have access to.
    This is really sneaky. Sounds a little bit like Tivoisation, apart from it's not hardware based. Perhaps something for the GPLv4, although I'm not entirely sure how that would work.
    samhobbs.co.uk

    Comment


      #3
      when Apple asked FOSS FreeBSD programmers to pitch in and help build "Darwin", which Apple plundered without returning any significant modifications back to the FreeBSD community. Apple even took Konqueror and made it the basis of their Safari browser, without returning anything to the KDE community. They did their exploitation by making the hardware interface (i.e., like libc6 library) a proprietary binary that only had the entrance ports public. When coders looked at the FOSS code they created but Apple modified all they saw were software hooks into proprietary binary blobs, blobs which they didn't have access to.
      That's not entirely true. Apple did give us CUPS "CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for OS X® and other UNIX®-like operating systems. CUPS uses the Internet Printing Protocol (IPP) to support printing to local and network printers."

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by NickStone View Post
        That's not entirely true. Apple did give us CUPS "CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for OS X® and other UNIX®-like operating systems. CUPS uses the Internet Printing Protocol (IPP) to support printing to local and network printers."
        Not quite. I know what the CUPS web page states: "CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for OS X® and other UNIX®-like operating systems."

        but...

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS
        Michael Sweet, who owns "Easy Software Products", started developing CUPS in 1997. The first public betas appeared in 1999. The original design of CUPS used the Line Printer Daemon protocol, (LPD) but due to limitations in LPD and vendor incompatibilities, the Internet Printing Protocol (IPP) was chosen instead. CUPS was quickly adopted as the default printing system for most Linux distributions (because it was under the GPL). In March 2002, Apple adopted CUPS as the printing system for the Mac OS X 10.2. In February 2007, Apple hired chief developer Michael Sweet and purchased the CUPS source code.
        Michael Sweet returned back to his own company, Easy Software Products. Easy Software Products was the vendor who originally invented the Common Unix Printing System (CUPS) and HTMLDOC software. It was founded near Washington, D.C. in 1993 and was located in Morgan Hill, California. ESP sold CUPS to Apple Inc. in 2007, but still developed and sold its HTMLDOC software until its closure.
        "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
        – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by GreyGeek View Post
          [URL]They are calling their new platform "The Machine". It is (or will be) a "state computer", the opposite of today's stateless computers.
          Are my eyes deceiving me?
          The story goes, about a year and a half ago, Fink and his colleagues gave a presentation to Whitman asking for her backing for the project. Their presentation lasted 2 hours, during which, they told her that as many as 75% of those employed by HP Labs would be assigned to the project. Vance reports: "At the end, Meg turned to [Chief Financial Officer] Cathie Lesjak and said, ‘Find them more money,’” said John Sontag, the VP of systems research at HP in charge of bringing The Machine to life (he also attended the meeting). “People in Labs see this as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

          The old HP is baaaaack!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
            Sounds a little bit like Tivoisation, apart from it's not hardware based.
            Well, you can always outfox the thing if it starts to think that you might be gay.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by SteveRiley View Post
              Are my eyes deceiving me? .... The old HP is baaaaack!
              One thing for certain, like the old HPs, "The Machine" will have unique components that would only be available through HP, just like it used to be. The first HP PCs wouldn't accept off the shelf peripherals because of its unique bus, or mounting configuration. It was HP's version of vendor lock-in, until people got tired of being robbed at peripheral point and opted for less expensive machines that could use cheap, off the shelf peripherals.

              It is more than likely that HP will have to develop peripherals that are also "state" devices, so that reboots are truly stateless. This means only one thing: $$$$$$$$ and a return to vendor lock-in. HP will have the memristor surrounded on all sides by patents and the only source of HP parts will be ... HP !!

              The original HP PCs were the "Cadillacs" of the PC industry, and this state computer will be the Bugatti Veyron of the PC:
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              Not bad for only $2.5 million!

              As a guess, how would $5,000 be for a price for a PC version of "The Machine", with a memristor capacity of, say, 6 to 12 TB? After all, as a state machine it does not need an HD, just lots and lots of state memory. And, as a state machine, it won't draw lots of power because it takes virtually zero power for a memristor to maintain the state across the two terminals of each bit. So the big power hog will be the display. For servers the display could be the monochrome ePaper that Kindle and other e-readers use. For the PC version the Color ePaper could make a comeback. Imagine having a desktop (laptop? Who knows how big physically 12 TB of Memristor would be?) computer that was powered by, say, a 50 to100 Watt Hour battery which could keep it going 24/7 for a month, or longer, on a single charge, and even when the battery ran down the state of the information held by "The Machine" remained.

              And, it uses Linux.

              Nirvana!

              EDIT:
              Well, I grossly mis-underestimated the size of "The Machine"'s storage capacity. Instead of the 6 to 12 TB range for a PC, I should have been in the 100TB range for a Memristor smartphone device!
              http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/11/hp-the-machine/
              http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06...r_the_machine/
              The result is a computer that can handle dramatically larger amounts of data, all the while using much less power. A Machine server could address 160 petabytes of data in 250 nanoseconds; HP says its hardware should be about six times more powerful than an existing server, even as it consumes 80 times less energy. Ditching older technology like copper also encourages non-traditional, three-dimensional computing shapes (you're looking at a concept here), since you're not bound by the usual distance limits. The Machine shouldn't just be for data centers and supercomputers, either -- it can shrink down to laptops and phones.
              ...
              When the tech is scaled down, Fink said, the memristor will make it possible to build a smartphone with 100TB of memory.
              The catch? It may be 2020 before we see the devices being offered for sale.

              EDIT2:
              Here is another interesting story about how Fink and his lab realized that effects they were seeing in their experiments could be explained by a theory created in 1971:
              http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-his-discovery

              EDIT3:
              Here is how the Memreistor fits into the scheme of things:
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              When I saw that my first thought was the "Flux Capacitor"!

              EDIT4:
              Here is a paper which describes the Memristor:
              http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&udd...df%2F1008.3452

              EDIT5:
              Here is a PDF showing logic and design circuitry:
              https://acrc.ee.technion.ac.il/uploa...0Kvatinsky.pdf
              Last edited by GreyGeek; Jun 17, 2014, 12:42 PM.
              "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
              – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

              Comment


                #8
                This morning I watched an excellent presentation by HP's project lead about the Memristor. It explains a lot about the history of the Memristor and its cousin, the Memistor, and the possibility of a 4D memory stack. You read that right. A cell in a 3D stack can be referenced by three numbers (x,y,z). HP has figured a way to add a dimension and use 4 numbers to reference an even bigger stack but in a much smaller space. The video gives the details. When the Memristor was theorized in 1971 Leon Chua said he couldn't think of any examples in the physical world. Since then, the pinched historesis curve characteristic of a Memristor hysteresis loop has been seen in over 1,000 research papers on various topics, non of which were about Memristors. Later, Chua himself discovered one: the neuron in the human brain! This lead the HP team to create a 10,000 cell Memistor (made from Memristors) along with neural net programming to emulate brain cells. My first thought was Data' "Positronic Brain" LOL!
                Here's the video:
                "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                Comment


                  #9
                  But, as the following article demonstrates, there is a LOT of jockeying going in the Memristor field. And, I suspect, a lot of ground-work being laid for submarine patents and future patent lawsuits, after the first marketable device reaches consumers.
                  http://www.science20.com/alpha_meme/...edition-135143

                  A rare opportunity, likely unique for many readers also in its clarity of how different interests clash, a look behind the curtains of ‘scientific peer review’ as it corrupts science; moreover, revealing sniffs of the stinking swamp that is the established community researching memristors, but the implications are general and can be only more severe with issues where more money than Hewlett Packard’s is involved or hugely powerful political interests like with global warming.
                  "A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.”
                  – John F. Kennedy, February 26, 1962.

                  Comment

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