respectful request devs of video editing software

[woodsmoke]

One video editor does "this"

Another video does "that"

A third does a "bit of this and a bit of that".

There is one, only one, video editor that will reliably covert an "mpeg4" to "wmv". This kind of conversion REALLY IS needed by a variety of people, such as the old woodsmoker, who was requested by the college to "make a video" to put up on Blackboard to introduce myself to the students.

I made a video of me at a dive shop talking about how I use the SCUBA equipment to illustrate things in my Physical Science classes.

Wellll the problem is that........ the video is HUGE even on a Galaxy SIII. And it requires a relatively good machine to view the video.

MOST students will not have a "relatively good machine".....they usually have hand me downs.

So, I wanted to convert the mpeg4 to just a plain mpeg and also to .wmv, because, at least one, of the two files "should" be viewable on just about any OS.

And I entered video editing hell.

The problem is......that the phone's video.... when it ends up in the linux distro file system....

is rotated 90 degrees .....

and when the video editor tries to deal with it,

well i won't go into details.

But when attempting to do any type of conversion, using any of the editors...

a) the video may be rotated but all of a sudden it is three times normal width. And when going back to retry the "fill in the blank" to reshape the video...nothing happens.
b) Another editor will convert a video but won't rotate it.
c) another rotates randomly if one puts in rotate right it rotates left or flips,
d) another offers rotating and rotating and flipping and the rotation and flipping is random as to how it ends up.

After HOURS of doing conversions I was finally able to end up with a conversion to .wmv that was correctly oriented vertically.

I could NOT get that to convert to any other format such as .avi, that was in the correct x - y proportion AND also not "fat".

Believe me when I say.............I KNOW WHAT STRIDES HAVE BEEN MADE. After all I am the OLD woodsmoke, several people at this forum can attest that I have been around since the first of Xandros days.

So............my respectful request.

Why not have a "summer of code" financed by Blue Systems and respectfully request that ALL of the developers for ALL of the video editing applications meet at the summer of code, PAID by Blue Systems, for which Blue Systems will request that the community at large offer donations of CASH to finance the travel expenses and lodging of the developers.

The result of the summer of code to be:

a) ALL video editor applications end up with a "core" of software that will "convert" between the various formats, and provide reliable "rotation".
b) the DIFFERENT application developers can then develop their interface/GUI and particular methodology so that each developer can concentrate on "method" as opposed to the underlying software.
c) the DIFFERENT application developers can then add on any bells and whistles, again, to differentiate their particular app from the other apps.

just a respectful request from someone who has watched the great progresssion of the software but, by this time it would seem that..... as so eloquently stated in the Cathedral and the Bazaar....

it would seem that the various inhabitants of the bazaar should get together to show what the bazaar can do on these two basic things that just about everybody needs if they need the software at all.

woodrespectfulsmoke

[claydoh]

IA Couple of questions, to help get a ball rolling, discussion-wise:

Why wmv?
What about simply converting, i.e. not using an editor to convert? All the editors are using one of the command line tools to do that work. (I know this goes against The One Tool ideal) Avidemux comes to mind, as I used to use it to shrink t.v. shows down from HD quality to where I could fit a Number of episodes onto a DVD. This as well as Handbrake have presets for different uses and devices, such as phones/iPods etc. Avidemux can rotate video as well.

You have not said which you have used, or specified which one has which problem.

I will weasel my way out of taking about the problem and leave thoughts on complexity of creating video editing software, the bazaar, and Blue System's size and influence and funds (or rather the lack of them) to others


tl;dr taking a bazaar and forcing it to become a cathedral might not work any better than what we have now, and there are good tools available specifically to accomplish the task you need. Why did there have to be one monolithic thing?

Wow, it's 4 a.m., what am I doing awake at this hour?

Sent from my DNA using Tapatalk, like that really matters

[whatthefunk]

I dont hink this is the place to make such a request. Kubuntu devs drop by occassionally but I dont think anyone from Blue Systems is here and if they are, I dont know how seriously they would take a post like this. Rather than just assume that what you want to do cant be done currently, maybe you should start a help request thread. Although I dont do much video editing/converting, I have had no trouble converting video in the past...

[woodsmoke]

Hi
I stated why .wmv in the post, because the students will be using windblows computers.

As to stateing it here I've tried making requests at various irqs, etc. and was basically blown off.

As to cli, this is something that, one would think, would have moved beyond years ago for a seemingly simple thing like conversion and rotation, seemingly VERY basic things.

The particular problem is with the mpeg4 produced by every single android phone that is used.

If the devs are just working "abstractly" on the apps as abstractions then the situation is of little consequence to them, which is the normal reply one gets when one makes requests.

As long as one stays completely within the fence of "Linux" then things run pretty well, just don't get to close to the fence.

And, as a consequence those who are long time users of Linux should not rail against the sky about "why don't people use Linux?"

So again, I am well cognizant of the great strides made by the devs.

But in an ever increasingly "smart phone centric" world.... the number of people who say "i need to be able to do this" will increase.

woodsmoke

[claydoh]

If every phone is taking the video and it needs rotating, mebbe the phone needs to be held sideways (as it is designed to be held for video)?

Both my phones' files are sideways if i hold the camera upright: both the 3 year old model and the the now one-year old one.

You are seeing/wanting to see something like this: http://claydoh.com/vid-test/ ?
A before and after quickie. I saved as mp4 as the wordpress doesn't want to embed a player for the video in avi format; that is another format option for smaller file size and universality.

As to the cli, I meant that all the gui tools such as Avidemux are using something non-gui to manipulate the files, no matter what the OS. I don't use a terminal to mess with video; seeing the options with some sort of context is nice, as well as is having the Preview button

[Simon]

I am no video expert but isn't avi the best universal format?
Woodsmoke said,

"So, I wanted to convert the mpeg4 to just a plain mpeg and also to .wmv, because, at least one, of the two files "should" be viewable on just about any OS."

AVI is viewable by any OS. If I ran into video compatibilty issues in the past I used FFMPEG to convert and more recently I have used AVCONV. Either I am really lucky with the few video conversions or AVCONV is pretty good at converting video. From terminal I type;

avconv -i testvideo.mp4 testvideo.avi

That normally works and seldom ever do I need bitrate switches or audio. I am pretty sure I have all my codecs installed. However like I said, no video expert. I personally like to convert to flv format seems to be more compact.

[MoonRise]

I can attest to what Woodsmoke is saying to the fact that it seems video editing software, not just isolated to Linux, have their own ideas of video editing. I had to use between Windows and Linux 4 different Video editing programs to do similar. It think some of it comes down to the Phone manufacturers themselves. The issue I had was one smartphone seemed OK with the video even though rotating back and forth. Both Linux and Windows software handled it fairly well. Get to another smartphone's video and all !@#$ breaks loose and I had to really hunt and manipulate that video until it was "OK". Thing is both smartphones were Android so it was obviously something to do with the fact one was Samsung and the other was HTC. Clearly both using something different though Android. I guess to make it "proprietary". With that said I don't know how well video editing software vendors can keep up with smartphone manufacturers desire to "add" their own "improvements" to video formats to make them "unique" to themselves. At least how I see it anyway. The three I used mostly were KDEnLive, Avidemux and Roxio. The fourth was some off the wall application I found to do something or other. Can't remember it. Was on Windows and don't really have that running at the moment or no real desire to. Just my 2 cents if even worth that!

[SteveRiley]

I stated why .wmv in the post, because the students will be using windblows computers.

I really wish you would stop the "windblows" stuff. I am no fan myself, but the "funny" little names like M$ and whatever are rather childish.

Beginning with Windows 7, the built-in Media Player can handle most MP4 videos, which is probably about as close we'll get to a cross-platform standard.

[Simon]

OT:My issues with Microsoft didn't start until they scrapped XP and blatantly lied to people about Vista. XP was and still is the best they ever made. I cannot honestly comment on 7 or 8, except from what I have been told by others... so I won't.

But it would seem that with the proper codec installed you can use a crossover media player such as VLC?

[SteveRiley]

@woody: I apologize for my earlier outburst. I made the mistake of replying when I was in a cranky mood for an altogether unrelated reason and lost some self control.

[woodsmoke]

Ahhhhh SR thou are a good fellow, and having been in the same cranky state meseff, I can relate! It is all good sirrah!

And now back to the thread:

a) Claydoh: yes that is precisely the result
b) Moonrise: yes as long as there is proprietary stuff...

And to the others good comments all... and some good advice, but....

BUT...............

As Dogberry said and which I will loosly restate:

O (those here). write me down an ass!



the quote

Dogb. Dost thou not suspect my place? Dost thou not suspect my years? O that he were here to write me down an ass! but, masters, remember that I am an ass; though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. No, thou villain, thou art full of piety, as shall be proved upon thee by good witness. I am a wise fellow; and, which is more, an officer; and, which is more, a householder; and, which is more, as pretty a piece of flesh as any in Messina; and one that knows the law, go to; and a rich fellow enough, go to; and a fellow that hath had losses; and one that hath two gowns, and everything handsome about him. Bring him away. O that I had been writ down an ass!

The problem is not that many many people have not wrestled with how to rotate a a video file....

"THE ROOT PROBLEM" is that Dolphin "assumes" that the video file is supposed to be in landscape mode, no matter what.

Now it may be that there is no way for Dolphin to be able to determine a'priori the correct orientation of the "container". Dolphin does not "see" the video file.

There has to be code attached to the container in some way because........

It is beyond my ken that a commercial program would not automagically orient the video file correctly.

So the situation may be this;

a) the "orientation" part of the xml/whatever script is proprietary and therefore beyond the bounds of Linux.
b) nobody thought about it in the development of Dolphin

So....if, indeed, there is a bit of code attached to the video file then, there might really be a very simple fix within Dolphin itself! ? just wonderin'

lol....indeed.....write me down an ass!

woodsmoke

[whatthefunk]

Dolphin displays your video sideways because your video is sideways. In two minutes time, I shot a brief video on my phone and saved it as an mp4 file (which is supported out of the box by Windows, Apple, and Android). I sent it to my Kubuntu machine through KDE Connect and imported it in Openshot. I rotated it 90 degrees and exported it as an mp4 file. I checked it on every device I own and it plays fine on everything. I have no idea what youre complaining about.

[claydoh]

Dolphin displays your video sideways because your video is sideways. In two minutes time, I shot a brief video on my phone and saved it as an mp4 file (which is supported out of the box by Windows, Apple, and Android). I sent it to my Kubuntu machine through KDE Connect and imported it in Openshot. I rotated it 90 degrees and exported it as an mp4 file. I checked it on every device I own and it plays fine on everything. I have no idea what youre complaining about.

Agreed on the video being sideways. I do wonder if all the YouTube vids shot with a vertically held phone are rotated by the user before uploading, or does Google detect this and rotate it automagically?

Anyway, it is true that anything related to video editing and manipulation is a huge mess. Woody is right that, depending on the source material, each Linux tool has vastly different strengths and crappiness. However, unless one buys the super high end pro stuff, I'll bet it is the same thing in the Windows world.

Mp4 files seem to be a better source for editing than other common formats, like avi

Sent from my Droid DNA using Tapatalk, like that really matters

[woodsmoke]

Whatthefunk
you are completely correct, but, please consider what you just posted.

The phone was vertical( portrait mode) by the fellow recording the video. We, neither one of us, considered that there might be a problem,

The video, when it is transferred to the computer by dolphin arrives, or is interpreted, or is placed, I don't know what, horizotally in presentation, and the "video of woodsmoke jumping into the SCUBA pool" is laying sidewise.

The problem is a) converting the mp4 to simple mpeg and also rotating it. The only way that it was exported and kept the correct x - y dimensions was into a .wmv. When any and all attempts to export to mpeg were made by any and all of the apps woodsmoke's "body" was FAT.... because the only options are some kind of "amorphous" and "widescreen" and whatever.

So.... yes you are correct, but the question was why is it that the export to .wmv maintains the correct x-y ratio and also exports to .wmv.

The export and orientation are not done simultaneously for mpeg.

MP4 does, indeed export properly but......not all students will have the horsepower of a computer to necessarily be able to watch an mp4 without a lot of lag.

I have a relatively good machine and the video lags in mp4.

It does not lag in mpeg, or .wmv.

++++++

And yes snowhog, that is precisely why I did not post the "name" of the software, because I do not think this any one dev, or set of dev's "fault". It is a situation which has appeared in just the last few short years.

Previously, the apps were only having to deal with stuff from digital cameras, or the oddment of a video cam, displaying a portrait feed as landscape.

+++++++

I even installed Pitivi, which now is configured to export an mpeg and all it does is hang at "calculating" or some such for both an mpeg and also for .avi.

+++++++

I think that we can now consider the situation to be solved in a rather odd way:


The only REAL FIX.....

NEVER, never, never, shoot a video by physically holding the cell phone in one's hand in the "portrait" mode, that is vertically.

ONLY, shoot a video by physically holding the cell phone in one's hand in the "landscape" mode, that is horizontally.

The problem of course, is that all those kids at mega music events that are tokin' 'da dope, or drunk out of their minds on tequila ....um....not being able to think far enough ahead to hold the phone correctly. .

So.............no worries!


woodfortunatelyneverdiddadopeandnevershotavideowhe nplasteredsmoke

[claydoh]

Hmm, woodsmoke-er, just what do you let your students do during lectures, eh??



if it helps any, you can just export the video from a heavy (1920x1080 -1080p HD) mp4 to a lower res one, some of these editors and converters have presets for this. Anything 720p or lower should do fine on most any machine using mp4 format. DVD quality should do well also.