I'm glad Kubuntu is stayiing with Wayland!

[GreyGeek]

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTQ1NjY

Intel, which is a company heavily invested in Wayland and has many full-time employees working on the competing display server (including Kristian Høgsberg, the Wayland founder), now doesn't want any XMir support in their mainline driver. It's interesting to see Intel management force the XMir removal from the Intel driver just days after it was committed and to publicly state a neutral stance on Canonical's controversial display server.

Canonical will now need to carry the XMir support out-of-tree from the xf86-video-intel driver. Canonical is also carrying patched versions of Mesa, xf86-video-[COLOR=#234865 !important][COLOR=#234865 !important]ati[/COLOR][/COLOR], and xf86-video-nouveau for being able to support Mir/XMir in [COLOR=#234865 !important][COLOR=#234865 !important]Ubuntu[/COLOR][/COLOR] 13.10. The binary AMD and [COLOR=#234865 !important][COLOR=#234865 ! important]NVIDIA [COLOR=#234865 ! important]graphics[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] drivers also remain incompatible with Mir.

[verndog]

...The binary AMD and NVIDIA graphics drivers also remain incompatible with Mir...

I found this to be true using my onboard nvidia graphics. Tested Mir and it failed measurably. I hope Wayland does a better job, or at least works.

[tek_heretik]

Yeah, me too (glad), because I'm really sick of distro hopping, that's how I wound up here. People just can't leave things alone if they work, huh? "Maybe we can make it better" doesn't always apply! I am hoping to build a new i7 machine soon, most likely using the onboard Intel graphics (why pay through the nose for a video card if you don't really need powerhouse graphics?), this kind of noise is scaring the poop out of me, if I have to buy a copy of WinDOHS 7, I will consider it the 7th sign in the end of days warnings, lol.

The "maybe we can make it better" syndrome seems to be rampant over at Ubuntu.

[GreyGeek]

.... People just can't leave things alone if they work, huh? ...

I stayed with SuSE from Sept of 1998 till Novell bought them in 2005. I hopped around a while but ended up going to Mandrake, then MEPIS, followed by PCLinuxOS and then Mandriva, before coming to Kubuntu in Feb of 2009. I plan to stay with Kubuntu 12.04 till 2017. After that it depends on the next LTS and if I am still around and cognizant.

I frequently added PPAs to my Precise install for the latest and greatest, and I added a PPA to keep the latest KDE on board. I used KDE 4.11 for several months.

When I reinstalled 12.04.3 from a LiveCD a couple days ago it dropped me back to KDE 4.8.5. There are a couple features in 4.11 that I liked, but I can't think of them right now. However, for the most part there is little difference between 4.8.5, 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11 except for perhaps some bug fixes that didn't make it back down to 4.8.5.

I agree with you, tek_heretik, change for change sake is becoming a problem. Here's my wish:
Hold off on KDE 5.0 and polish KDE 4.11, putting it in the Precise repository so we don't have to add a PPA to install it.
Fix all the broken, klutzy or poorly designed or implemented stuff.
For the next four years make Kubuntu Precise the BEST Linux distro ever made.

The Qt 5.0 API is out now, so I understand the KDE developers have frozen KDE 4.11 to security fixes and bug patches, while they devote most of their time on KDE 5.0.

I won't be moving to KDE 5.0 until Precise expires, and then only if it is in the next LTS. But, by then, they'll be working on KDE 6.0

Why won't my wish come true? Several reasons; progress marches on, there's aren't enough developers and other help, new hardware is always coming out and the latest desktop release always gets the software to handle it, etc....

What I did to slow the march of progress was to lock my critcal and well working components: the kernel, the video drivers and the network manager package.

[tek_heretik]

I frequently added PPAs to my Precise install for the latest and greatest, and I added a PPA to keep the latest KDE on board.

Here's a little joke...PPA = Probably Problems Ahead, lol.

The next LTS is due out next year, if it's any good, I will use it, if not, I will stick with clunky (but very stable and functional) 12.04.x.

Btw, your distro hopping roadmap sounds pretty much like mine, lol, go figure huh.

[Guest]

how much is a shuttle worth?

After Edges failure I actually feel alittle sorry for Shuttleworth. Now Mir looks to be outted by Intel. Thats what they get for going off on their own tangent yet again, ey?

Anyway, I tried the Ubuntu Beta with Mir the other night and it seems to run ok. I installed Steam, got a few games working with no problems. There were a few graphics glitches during the install screen, but nothing world breaking. Being a user of Kubuntu/Netrunner/Mint KDE (yes, i distro hop those 3) I am looking forward to Wayland coming to Kubuntu. I must say unity seems to work with more steam and desura games off the bat then the KDE distros. I did only come across from Win 7 three years ago, so I'm missing my gaming :-P

You guys know of any distros, other than the Rebecca Black thing I can give Wayland a shot with?

[kubicle]

Anyway, I tried the Ubuntu Beta with Mir the other night and it seems to run ok.

You can't deduce much from that, in 13.10 you're still running effectively running xorg on top of XMir and not MIr natively...so you can expect things to work pretty much the same way they used to (albeit slower): http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html

[Guest]

You can't deduce much from that, in 13.10 you're still running effectively running xorg on top of XMir and not MIr natively...so you can expect things to work pretty much the same way they used to (albeit slower): http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html

Sorry, yes I should have said XMir.

Maybe my final question should have been any test distros coming out where we can try XWayland?

[kubicle]

Maybe my final question should have been any test distros coming out where we can try XWayland?

In a similar way that ubuntu uses XMir? Haven't seen any (doesn't mean one doesn't exist), probably because there is little point in doing so...a footnote quote from the link:

[4] So why hasn't anyone done this with Wayland? Mostly because, as described above, there's no technical benefit in doing so. Wayland does have an X server for compatibility purposes, and if you wanted you could run it as a full screen client and run an entire session underneath it. But you'd gain nothing by doing so. The Wayland X server is intended for running individual clients rather than an entire X session. Run an X client under Wayland and it'll pop up in its own individual window and managed by your Wayland session's window manager, just like it would under X. XMir currently has no support for this "rootless" mode - right now if you want to run X apps under Mir, you'll need to launch an entire X session with its own window manager.

Arch seems to have Wayland (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland, haven't tried it though), and I seem to recall that there was a wayland livecd spin for Fedora (but I might be wrong).

[Buddlespit]

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...on-in-wayland/

I'm going to give this a try next week, when I go on vacation.

[dmeyer]

However, for the most part there is little difference between 4.8.5, 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11 except for perhaps some bug fixes that didn't make it back down to 4.8.5.

Little difference? Memory usage was massively improved. Nepomuk went from the tolerable mess that was in 4.8 to a really great tool in 4.10 (and amazing in 4.11). Speed ups everywhere. New printer management that is a lot nicer. More QML for better desktop stability and speed. Kwin improvements like no tomorrow (e.g. OpenGL3.1 Core Profile, more VSync options, rewritten animations). Better Multi-screen handling with KScreen. Kwallet got some huge improvements especially the GUI. Don't forget Kate got a ton of new plugins. Kontact and all it's constituents are much less hungry, a lot faster and stopped with the terrigfing notifications. What about the Notification widget? There are so many more changes I could list which substantially differentiate 4.8.x from 4.11.

Although, maybe on a fairly superficial level they are similar, but in all honesty KDE really came into it's element in 4.9. I think the differences thereafter weren't as big but they are still very much noteworthy.

[SteveRiley]

Canonical cares only about Mir now. Canonical offers XMir as a compatibility layer and nobody can be bothered to give a rodent's exhaust port. So who in *buntu flavor-land will become the maintainer of "regular" X and of Wayland? I see this as a major unresolved problem. I hope I'm wrong.

[tek_heretik]

Canonical cares only about Mir now. Canonical offers XMir as a compatibility layer and nobody can be bothered to give a rodent's exhaust port. So who in *buntu flavor-land will become the maintainer of "regular" X and of Wayland? I see this as a major unresolved problem. I hope I'm wrong.

Your statement conjures up images of ominous storm clouds on the horizon, hopefully by the time the next Kubuntu LTS is released, I should have an i7 built, if it runs OK on it, fine, if not, hmmm, back to distro hopping.