Better organization for efficient start up

[onihr]

I'm new to Kubuntu and I have been a Windows user forever and I see that information is too spread out for people making the transition. I have spent hours and hours doing google searches, jumping to many different forums and tuturials, reading ubuntu and kubuntu guides etc...to help me accomplish simple tasks. Most people are all ready timid and hesitant to make the transition to a linux o/s and when they do a lot of them give up on it thinking it's too difficult. I don't think it's impossible for people to learn I think what makes it difficult is the lack of organization,structure, and focused support for transitioning windows users.

There should be a page just for windows users that breaks it down from point a to z. Here are some of the problems I encountered;

1. Burning the iso image file on cd(I had to do a google search to find this info on some boondock website/waisted a few cdr's when I tried using the nero wizard)
2. Once installed no interactive or visual wizard type tutorial to get accustomed to KDE(KDE's quick tutorial could be improved. I know it can be improved. Kubuntu is powerful-don't tell me we can hook it up with a flash tutorial or something interactive with voice and sound. I think the goal should be to have great support and tutorials that will make windows look difficult to use from a newbs prospective)
3. Windows users are used to "my computer" or knowing where their drives and files are(again a really quick tutorial at start up would be nice explaining the most common features"interactive tutorial would be ideal with tux doing the instructing")
4. I used up a lot of time trying to figure out how to download programs(the unofficial guide is just not good enough for people making the transition-I ended up finding where that was in a forum because the guide left some simple steps out like how to access and edit the sourclist.)
5. Be very thorough at explaining processes example: Editing the source list (unofficial guide says open up your /etc/apt/sources.list file then...blah blah.. Where is this sources.list and how do I get to it? Found out by posting a question in the forum and I found out there are a couple of ways but the easiest way for me, and the only one I figured out, was kwrite. Sudo nano within the terminal method required me asking another question like how do I select ^exit...oh ^ means control..got it.

Most ordinary computer users transitioning from windows want to do the following:
1.Download games
2. Download familiar or similar file sharing applications like limewire
3. Anything mp3
4. Use ms office type programs like open office.
5. Installing hardware and printers, scanners etc.
6. Setting up email

Point is we need a page just for non computer geeks transitioning from windows outlying the most simple and basic tasks that everyday computer users utilize. We don't need to direct newbs to an unofficial guide containing stuff that most newbs don't care to use(it just slows them down trying to sift through info to get to the bits they need-by the way the unnofficial guide is so hidden to the newb searching for info on kubuntu)

So please someone anyone please create a very clean crisp "welcome to kubuntu former windows users" page containing the foundation of applications (as listed above) that non geeks use. Make sure it's in jock talk not geek talk and don't skip steps. I shouldn't have to sift through ubuntu's tutorial, kubuntu's tuturiol, ubuntu's guide, kubuntu's guide, users sites, multiple forums, multiple threads, endless google searches, etc just to get the most basic information. KISS and build the info on one page just for former windows users!

I know their are some angry linux users and die hard geeks out there who are saying well we don't need you guys. But I feel, and I'm sure other people agree, pretty much everything should be open source therefore we need to make it usable and accessable for the idiot(this is done through an organized help and training support plan). Is it not the point to get more people to use open source software so we can advance tech? More minds=more creative ideas.

So please make a page or two for only transitional windows users. It should be clear and concise so that even my grandma could get started. Remember most people have kids and jobs and they just don't have time to try and sift through all this scattered data. Make it professional not like some geocities project. Recruit the most talented of volunteers and make a plan, become structured, unify, brainstorm, put yourselves in others shoes, and focus on quality and support.

[aysiu]

Re: Better organization for efficient start up

There should be a page just for windows users that breaks it down from point a to z.

I agree. In fact, that was a major frustration I encountered six months ago when I started using Linux as well. So what did I do? I wrote a page just like that:

http://www.psychocats.net/essays/linuxguide.php

It's everything I wish I'd known when I started out--mostly stuff I had to learn the hard way or glean from many, many Google searches.

If you don't like it, write your own page. If you like it, refer other new users to it.

1. Burning the iso image file on cd(I had to do a google search to find this info on some boondock website/waisted a few cdr's when I tried using the nero wizard)

http://www.wizardskeep.org/mainhall/tutor/neroiso.html

2. Once installed no interactive or visual wizard type tutorial to get accustomed to KDE(KDE's quick tutorial could be improved. I know it can be improved. Kubuntu is powerful-don't tell me we can hook it up with a flash tutorial or something interactive with voice and sound. I think the goal should be to have great support and tutorials that will make windows look difficult to use from a newbs prospective)

Kubuntu's not trying to imitate Windows. It's its own OS. Mac doesn't have something like this for new Mac users. I had a hard time learning Mac, but I sucked it up.

It sounds to me as if you'd be really happy with Linspire. They have My Computer. They have an interactive Flash-like tutorial with voice and sound. I'm not kidding.

3. Windows users are used to "my computer" or knowing where their drives and files are(again a really quick tutorial at start up would be nice explaining the most common features"interactive tutorial would be ideal with tux doing the instructing")

Once again, Linspire is targeted to migrating Windows users. Kubuntu/Ubuntu is not.

4. I used up a lot of time trying to figure out how to download programs(the unofficial guide is just not good enough for people making the transition-I ended up finding where that was in a forum because the guide left some simple steps out like how to access and edit the sourclist.)

I've generally found in Linux that complaining does very little. I found very little on this as well, which is why I made a little page with screenshots on installing software in Linux the easy way:

http://www.psychocats.net/essays/winuxinstall.php

5. Be very thorough at explaining processes example: Editing the source list (unofficial guide says open up your /etc/apt/sources.list file then...blah blah.. Where is this sources.list and how do I get to it? Found out by posting a question in the forum and I found out there are a couple of ways but the easiest way for me, and the only one I figured out, was kwrite. Sudo nano within the terminal method required me asking another question like how do I select ^exit...oh ^ means control..got it.

The unofficial guide is for quick fixes. It's when people are frustrated and just want to know how to get things done. It doesn't have explanations. It just assumes you know how to copy and paste. It definitely serves a purpose, but it isn't the be-all and end-all for documentation.

Most ordinary computer users transitioning from windows want to do the following:
1.Download games
2. Download familiar or similar file sharing applications like limewire
3. Anything mp3
4. Use ms office type programs like open office.
5. Installing hardware and printers, scanners etc.
6. Setting up email

I agree. Most computer users' needs are simple.

So please someone anyone please create a very clean crisp "welcome to kubuntu former windows users" page containing the foundation of applications (as listed above) that non geeks use. Make sure it's in jock talk not geek talk and don't skip steps. I shouldn't have to sift through ubuntu's tutorial, kubuntu's tuturiol, ubuntu's guide, kubuntu's guide, users sites, multiple forums, multiple threads, endless google searches, etc just to get the most basic information. KISS and build the info on one page just for former windows users!

Do you want to volunteer? A lot of the greatest things that have come out of the Linux community have been volunteer efforts.

I know their are some angry linux users and die hard geeks out there who are saying well we don't need you guys. But I feel, and I'm sure other people agree, pretty much everything should be open source therefore we need to make it usable and accessable for the idiot(this is done through an organized help and training support plan). Is it not the point to get more people to use open source software so we can advance tech? More minds=more creative ideas.

You won't find as many of those people in Ubuntu/Kubuntu. LinuxQuestions is full of those people, though.

So please make a page or two for only transitional windows users. It should be clear and concise so that even my grandma could get started. Remember most people have kids and jobs and they just don't have time to try and sift through all this scattered data.

People on these forums also have kids and jobs. A lot of the Linux community operate as volunteers. I'm a moderator at the Ubuntu forums, and everyone at the Ubuntu forums, including the administrators, are all volunteers. I have a full-time job, a wife, and a cat.

Make it professional not like some geocities project. Recruit the most talented of volunteers and make a plan, become structured, unify, brainstorm, put yourselves in others shoes, and focus on quality and support.

Recruit with what? Again. Do you want to step up to the plate? I'm not trying to scold you. In fact, quite the opposite--I'm trying to encourage you to become part of the community. It sounds as if you feel quite passionately about good documentation. Go ahead and create some then.

It appears to me you're operating under the assumption that the users on the Kubuntu forums have weekly meetings with Mark Shuttleworth, Canonical, and the Ubuntu Foundation about how to attract new users. We're not employees. We're users like you.

[onihr]

view from a newb

I guess I'm just new to the open source movement as are most people who transition from windows. Maybe I'm thinking somewhere that kumbuntu has a coporate office where people organize and get together and plan. I am going to research a little more on who was repsonsible for putting out kumbuntu. I know everyone contributes but someone had to come up with the name and some one is paying for the ubuntu.org site. From a business stand point I guess I think that with such a great product such as ubuntu and kubuntu there should be some type of leadership behind the push. And with that focused leadership they should have better support. The support does not have to be like windows I'm just asking for a quick nice set of instructions for a non geek user who does not have money to buy much of anything. I was thinking about making a site too but I was thinking that it should have been planned and have been made all ready before they pushed this distribution. Looks like I've got a lot to learn but let's not neglect proper training aids just because windows does it. Just about everything you find in linux has a similar windows program. If it has everything else why not a basic good structured tutorial from someone who invested money in this ubuntu project? I'm not asking for another windows program just a good set of transitional instructions to efficiently and effectively get me started.

[onihr]

i hate you

aiysiu,
I checked out your website and it's nice. It would have definately saved a but ton of hours off this computer if I had that info from the get go.

[onihr]

lindows linspire

Oh yeah and about lindows or linspire. I'm looking for something other than windows. I like linux and I'll do my part to learn so I'm not asking kubuntu to emulate windows. I want a free o/s with great comprehensive support that is powerful and effective at accomplishing daily tasks without having to be a nuclear physicist.

I think you have to pay for it too.

[onihr]

Better organization for efficient start up

Interesting info at this site thanks to ubuntu forum reply.
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I would like to say a lot of the things in linux are not that difficult to learn it's just that my problem is efficiently finding what I need to learn from a newbs perspective from one good source. I know we can degeek the instructions and tutorials. Computer enthusiasts and hackers don't need this intro info so why does it seem like we are writing it for them to read? Really good Special transition guide on the kubuntu site anyone? It's probably all ready been made and I'll find it sooner or later somewhere in the web but how about one for the kumbuntu site? Easy to find and locate.

[Patrick]

Better organization for efficient start up

All this:

There should be a page just for windows users that breaks it down from point a to z. Here are some of the problems I encountered;

1. Burning the iso image file on cd(I had to do a google search to find this info on some boondock website/waisted a few cdr's when I tried using the nero wizard)
2. Once installed no interactive or visual wizard type tutorial to get accustomed to KDE(KDE's quick tutorial could be improved. I know it can be improved. Kubuntu is powerful-don't tell me we can hook it up with a flash tutorial or something interactive with voice and sound. I think the goal should be to have great support and tutorials that will make windows look difficult to use from a newbs prospective)
3. Windows users are used to "my computer" or knowing where their drives and files are(again a really quick tutorial at start up would be nice explaining the most common features"interactive tutorial would be ideal with tux doing the instructing")
4. I used up a lot of time trying to figure out how to download programs(the unofficial guide is just not good enough for people making the transition-I ended up finding where that was in a forum because the guide left some simple steps out like how to access and edit the sourclist.)
5. Be very thorough at explaining processes example: Editing the source list (unofficial guide says open up your /etc/apt/sources.list file then...blah blah.. Where is this sources.list and how do I get to it? Found out by posting a question in the forum and I found out there are a couple of ways but the easiest way for me, and the only one I figured out, was kwrite. Sudo nano within the terminal method required me asking another question like how do I select ^exit...oh ^ means control..got it.

Can be found here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation

[aysiu]

Re: i hate you

I guess I'm just new to the open source movement as are most people who transition from windows. Maybe I'm thinking somewhere that kumbuntu has a coporate office where people organize and get together and plan. I am going to research a little more on who was repsonsible for putting out kumbuntu.

Well, Ubuntu is put out by the Ubuntu foundation, which is sponsored by Canonical, which was originally created by Mark Shuttleworth, a multimillionaire, who made his money off of open source software and wants to give something back. So Ubuntu does have a kind of corporate backing in a sense, but Mark and his people are too busy developing the OS and trying to get it into schools to bother with tutorials. I think you'll find in general the reason documentation in Linux is so scattered and not polished in the Linux world is that most Linux developers are too busy developing, which is a good and a bad thing. On the one hand, it means the product is constantly improving (I can't even tell you--just in the past six months I've been using Linux--how many improvements I've seen). On the other hand, it means a lot of people are having to get to know Google really well. I've found the best strategies are the following:

1. Google in quotation marks any actual error you get.
2. Google site:ubuntuforums.org howto whateveryouwanttofix.

I know everyone contributes but someone had to come up with the name and some one is paying for the ubuntu.org site.

That would be Canonical. The Ubuntu forums, however, are a strictly volunteer effort that's not funded by Canonical.

From a business stand point I guess I think that with such a great product such as ubuntu and kubuntu there should be some type of leadership behind the push. And with that focused leadership they should have better support.

The support is actually quite good for Ubuntu. It's one of the main reasons I'm using it, as opposed to Mepis or Blag (wonderful distros with lousy support).

The support does not have to be like windows I'm just asking for a quick nice set of instructions for a non geek user who does not have money to buy much of anything.

In all fairness, the support for Windows is pretty lousy. The truth is that no OS has really easy tutorials and support. Just yesterday, my wife and I were trying to figure out how to unsubscribe from IMAP folders using Mac OS X Tiger's Mail program. We Googled and Googled, and the only thing we could come up with was some obscure post on a Mac forum that had a perl script, and we didn't know how to run perl scripts in Mac.

I was thinking about making a site too but I was thinking that it should have been planned and have been made all ready before they pushed this distribution.

I'd say go ahead and make it. Linux generally follows the model of "Do whatever, and if it works, it'll grow." That's why there are so many Linux distributions out there. Most of them start up and die quickly, but Ubuntu, Mepis, Mandriva, SuSE, etc. have risen to the top because they're good. Likewise, there's a lot of lousy documentation out there. If yours is good, it'll rise to the top. Looking at the stats on my site, it looks as if a lot more people each month are linking to my Linux articles and clicking on those links.

Looks like I've got a lot to learn but let's not neglect proper training aids just because windows does it. Just about everything you find in linux has a similar windows program. If it has everything else why not a basic good structured tutorial from someone who invested money in this ubuntu project? I'm not asking for another windows program just a good set of transitional instructions to efficiently and effectively get me started.

I'm just speculating, of course, but I think, as I said before, it has to do with developing more and marketing less. I think, too, that Mark's hope is that (as seems to already be the case with HP) he will be able to preload Ubuntu on computers rather than having people like you and me have to manually install Ubuntu on our previously Windows-loaded PCs. Read more about what Mark Shuttleworth considers "The #1 Bug"

In fact, read more about Mark Shuttleworth and his goals.

aiysiu, I checked out your website and it's nice. It would have definately saved a but ton of hours off this computer if I had that info from the get go.

It would have saved me tons of hours, too. That's why I wrote it. Like you, I couldn't believe such simple things weren't readily available to new Linux users. I started out by checking out books from the library (mainly about Red Hat), and they didn't make any sense to me. They made too big a deal out of what the differences are between Grub and Lilo without really explaining how to use Grub or Lilo, for example. They went on and on about the directory structure (/var, /bin, etc.) without really talking about the practical implications about what directories you actually need to use. You're definitely identifying a truly large problem. There is something called the Linux Documentation Project, but as you can see, it's not very user-friendly at all.

All the information's out there... just not all in one place and in an easy-to-read format.

Oh yeah and about lindows or linspire. I'm looking for something other than windows. I like linux and I'll do my part to learn so I'm not asking kubuntu to emulate windows. I want a free o/s with great comprehensive support that is powerful and effective at accomplishing daily tasks without having to be a nuclear physicist.

I think you have to pay for it too.

I'm just saying... the thing about My Computer and the animation and sound--that is Linspire. Even if you get better and more centralized documentation, Kubuntu's never going to have that stuff because the developers don't want that.

Interesting info at this site thanks to ubuntu forum reply.
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

I love that article, especially the bit about the motorcycles and cars.

I would like to say a lot of the things in linux are not that difficult to learn it's just that my problem is efficiently finding what I need to learn from a newbs perspective from one good source. I know we can degeek the instructions and tutorials. Computer enthusiasts and hackers don't need this intro info so why does it seem like we are writing it for them to read?

Because the natural human instinct is to be self-centered: "I can understand these instructions. So everyone must be able to." It was really important to me that I write up my guide very soon after I started Linux so that I wasn't so entrenched in the lingo that I wouldn't understand where a new user was coming from. At this point (and I'm only in my six month), I think I may be too far off already. I'm not even close to an expert, but there are a lot of things I take for granted now that I wouldn't have four months ago.

Really good Special transition guide on the kubuntu site anyone? It's probably all ready been made and I'll find it sooner or later somewhere in the web but how about one for the kumbuntu site? Easy to find and locate.

No. It doesn't exist, as far as I can tell. The closest you'll come is the unofficial Kubuntu guide. It's a wonderful resource, but it's a lot harder to navigate than the Ubuntu Guide, and it's targeted toward 64-bit users (not the majority of Kubuntu users).