"Venting" section

[Oceanwatcher]

One forum that I am a member of has a section of the forum for blowing off steam. I would like to see this here as well.

With and opensource project it is not easy to vent your frustrations without being told that you are either insulting someone or trolling as the responsibility for the project is spread so wide it is close to non-existent. And the people that are developing it deserves our thanks because they do it for free. So there are nobody left to "yell at" when something goes horribly wrong and you need to let out the steam that has built up in the process.

So it would be nice to have a section of the forum where one is allowed to call Kubuntu as many bad names one can think of :-) This also means that there is a place to move threads to when it becomes clear that the OP is not actually asking for help. Care must be taken though to not move threads without asking the OP if he really needs help before moving the thread. Otherwise it might be used as a form of blackmail - "Shut up, or we will move the thread" is not too friendly (even if it is not a blatantly put as that).

I think it would help this forum to have a section like this, and it could help some of the more seasones members so they can give help where it is needed instead of having to waste time on threads that does not really need help.

Does anyone have a good name for this section? Here are a few to get things started:

Bashing Kubuntu
Venting
Steam out
Exploding
Red hot
I'm going crazy
Group therapy

[dibl]

Re: "Venting" section

How about

"I hate Kubuntu and I need to share my 87 reasons"

or

"Hostility Overload"

or

"I've nothing better to do than rant"




p.s. I like "Group Therapy", actually.

[GreyGeek]

Re: "Venting" section

How about "TE's Comments" or "Astroturf laid here" or "If you don't like it just leave"

[grizzler]

Re: "Venting" section

Just "Venting steam" or "Why Kubuntu doesn't cut it" would be my choice.

Don't pick a funny or suggestive name that could make people feel they're actually being ridiculed by posting there. This section is not for Kubuntu or Linux adepts or fans who -almost by definition- will not agree with these posters or think they must have some ulterior motive.

The people venting steam there have an excellent reason for doing so and nothing what you or anyone else might think or say can change that. Make sure the name reflects it.

[Oceanwatcher]

Re: "Venting" section

How about "TE's Comments" or "Astroturf laid here" or "If you don't like it just leave"

I see you are already venting your frustrations here!

Actually, a name like one of these would defeat the sole purpose of this section. I think that words like astroturfin, troll, fanboy, windoze etc. should be banned from the forum. These words have become a fashion tool to label and "control" discussions. If you want to shut someone up, just call them a troll. Or a Windows fanboy. Or astroturfer.

Venting is venting - and it goes both ways. Nobody scores any points by being confrontational with someone that sits up to his neck in trouble and is just blowing off some steam to prevent totally exploding.

It might be fashion to use all these names, but it is excluding, not including. If anyone used the same approach in real life, they would very soon find themselves pretty alone. Nobody want to be around people that call others names.

F.Y.I. In the forum I mentioned, this section is called "Brazil bashing" and all threads that fit the category is moved over. It helps to keep the other forums clean and helpful. And the name fits. Anything is allowed in that section :-)

[dibl]

Re: "Venting" section

The people venting steam there have an excellent reason for doing so

Wow, grizzler I think there are many, many examples indicating the contrary is true!

However, be that as it may, I personally hold a strong view that arguing in online forums is one of the least productive activities on earth -- it's up there with pushing a piece of string up a hill. So I won't be posting in this one, regardless of what the name turns out to be.

[Oceanwatcher]

Re: "Venting" section

pushing a piece of string up a hill.

Sorry for going a little off topic here, but as I am not a native English speaker, I am not always familiar with some of the expressions used. I have heard about pushing a rock up a hill, or something to that effect - possibly from a myth about someone pushing a rock up a hill and it always roll back down. But a string? Never heard about that one :-) Care to enlighten me a little?

[GreyGeek]

Re: "Venting" section

.....
The people venting steam there have an excellent reason for doing so and nothing what you or anyone else might think or say can change that. Make sure the name reflects it.

I don't believe that everyone "venting" on this forum has clean hands. I think this is especially true of low number posters who don't ask for help with any specific problem but suddenly post a "Kubuntu sucks" message with a page of canned rants and defenses against anticipated reactions, as if they've been posting like this on other forums and have already been flamed.

One poster, Wong, on SEVERAL other Linux web sites, was dumb enough to leave a trail to an "About Me" page which listed his occupation as a newly hired Microsoft Technical Evangelist. In case you are not aware of what a TE does consult: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic....71023002351958
About half way down the page (page 8 or 27) it begins talking about "the slog" and the "stacked panel". Read about them. Then read about Joe Barr's experience on the 1996 Canopus Forum, just four years after Plamondon was hired to create and lead the TE team: http://web.archive.org/web/200709121...com/slime.html
The TE's hijacked the OS/2 forum known as Canopus and converted it into a Windows puff site.

Earlier this year a group of MS fanbois hijacked the HuskerLUG, and now it posts mostly pro Windows discussions, or comparisons of Windows and Linux, with Windows always being superior, and the occasional anti-Linux rant. Their primary attack was that ANY criticism of Windows or Microsoft was "bashing" by "MS Haters", regardless of the evidence of past and current evil deeds by Microsoft and its TE group.

It isn't bashing when you can back up your criticisms of Microsoft and its behavior with facts. In fact, if it weren't for the release of subpoenaed MS emails in several court cases we wouldn't know about the TEs nor understand why events have happened the way they did because of TE dirty tricks. BTW, besides the subversion of the ISO OOXML standardization process, the most recent KNOWN example of an MS proxy hijacking a FOSS project is: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/How_to_Hij...Strategy_Paper

So, my advice is be gentle with newbies who request help for a specific problem, even if they precede it with a frustration rant, IF they respond to your first reply with more details to help identify their problem or thanks for the solution. In other words, they demonstrate sincerity.
If their second reply is just an extenuation of their rant with more accusations designed to counter your help or reply, then you know you are dealing with a disruptive poster. Rather than have their post turn into 6 or more pages of rant/counters, giving the jerk more air time, the thread should be moved into a side forum like the one being considered here, but not included in any search results. If the poster creates another rant then he/she should have their account removed. Rants by anonymous posters should be deleted immediately.

[grizzler]

Re: "Venting" section

The people venting steam there have an excellent reason for doing so

Wow, grizzler I think there are many, many examples indicating the contrary is true!

Look at the subject line and read Oceanwatcher's original post again. In a venting section the person doing the venting is right. He has just spent hours trying to get something done and it just doesn't work. So he vents his frustration. He has an excellent reason for doing that, no matter what anyone else thinks.

However, be that as it may, I personally hold a strong view that arguing in online forums is one of the least productive activities on earth -- it's up there with pushing a piece of string up a hill. So I won't be posting in this one, regardless of what the name turns out to be.

That's probably just as well, because if you feel you need to argue in the venting section, I don't think you've grasped Oceanwatcher's idea...

[grizzler]

Re: "Venting" section

.....
The people venting steam there have an excellent reason for doing so and nothing what you or anyone else might think or say can change that. Make sure the name reflects it.

I don't believe that everyone "venting" on this forum has clean hands.

My comments are about the venting section, not the entire forum (see my reply to dibl).

I suppose there will always be people like this Wong character. I've seen them on other forums as well. They won't be able to do much harm in the venting section, because everybody will expect rants there...

[leadwt]

Re: "Venting" section

I really do not see the requirement for a 'venting' section - it sounds like a lot of hot air to me and anyway when posters do have a rant most of us just ignore them!

In my view this thread should be sent to the trash can (or rubbish bin here in UK) it's not worth recycling.

Yours,

'Just minding my own business' and content too. (Smug little sod ain't I?)

[kbunt]

Re: "Venting" section

I think it's a good idea but it depends how tolerant others are and I do mean forum regulars and admins.

I believe that the Ubuntu forums named theirs, 'Testimonials' or something like that and apparently, people get the idea to vent their concerns and frustrations there.

I disagree with the posters who say they don't want help or aren't asking for help. I can sympathize with the people who rant because I have done it myself, unfortunately. I agree, though, it is not productive but you cannot help it, sometimes. If you are able to compose yourself or maybe you are just more skilled at problem solving or more adept at Linux or whatever, and you've never encountered enough frustration that provokes you to rant. That's good.

But, I feel that these people do want help but feel helpless. It sounds obvious enough but it's also true, imho. Sometimes, it is difficult to obtain help on forums or online. It's just the way it is. Although, (imho, anyway) forums have saved many Linux users from utter frustration and Google is probably the Linux users' best friend and best support instrument ever, there are still many occasions in which you cannot solve a problem and it is serious enough that it impacts your enjoyment of your machine/OS or whatever it is you're trying to do.

It is also frustrating sometimes, when you obtain the inevitable answer, 'it works for me....' and it is expected that is sufficient to ensure you that 'you're the problem' or somehow, your concern can be easily dealt with. I guess what I am trying to say, I can see both sides of the coin. There are a lot of smart people on forums who are really adept at dealing with problems and find some complainer who rants and raves to be unnecessary and childish but at the same time, I think it's reasonable to assume the frustrated user has valid concerns and the problem is probably serious enough from their perspective to excuse some rants - just realize people are just human and some deal with frustration differently than others. They still want help but figure it's not coming anytime soon hence the rant.

Maybe I am not making much sense or you don't agree. I was just trying to play devil's advocate and be as objective as possible.

[Snowhog]

Re: "Venting" section

Expressing frustration, with no other purpose than venting, serves no purpose within this forum - IMO.

As stated in Open Sources Welcome: "This community is here to help each other,..." If one merely 'rants/vents/etc' without at least following it with specific questions for assistance/help/understanding, then such posts serve little value (here).

All of us who use *buntu (Kubuntu specifically here), desire to see Linux useage in general, and Kubuntu specifically (again, here), increase. These negative vents/rants tend towards emotional outbursts. As such, little, if any, objective views, based on sound observation and evaluation, are expressed. This isn't always the case, but does appear to be the norm for such posts.

Unfortunately, it appears that those who feel it necessary to post these 'vents/rants' do so without wanting anyone here to provide them assistance. If you don't want help, we can't provide help. And if that is your position, please don't post.

If one stands on the prow of a ship, faced squarely into the heart of the storm, and decides to take a piss,...Well, we all know the results of that.

[lmilano]

Re: "Venting" section

Yes, these are useless posts. But I think the original idea is good, because it makes it easier to deal with these posts (which will happen no matter what), you just move them there.

Another (similar) idea is to put them in "Testimonials" (we do have this category here). I think we need more people with the rights to move posts to the right place, or to add a button to suggest (please move this thread to ...) so anyone can help the admins.

Another thought, we should all abide by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct (whether we like or dislike Kubuntu). We have a copy here.

Something that would help a lot is the ability to vote for things that seem broken, need attention, wish list items, etc. This is only useful if the Kubuntu devs will be reading these threads and using that info. This sort of feedback and kind of missing (at least, not implemented in an institutionalized way).

[grizzler]

Re: "Venting" section

I think it's a good idea but it depends how tolerant others are and I do mean forum regulars and admins.

I believe that the Ubuntu forums named theirs, 'Testimonials' or something like that and apparently, people get the idea to vent their concerns and frustrations there.

Indeed. But I get the impression that section is really only intended for positive testimonials. I've seen a recent thread there, where the poster gave a true testimonial of his failure to get Ubuntu to work. It was not appreciated. Even when he clarified that his story was nothing but a testimonial - and he did that several times, because the vultures kept coming down on him - he got a lot of flack. So that name is out, in my opinion. If you want to give people the opportunity to vent, make sure everyone understands that that is what the section is about.