Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

[jeroenvrp]

Maybe some people are going to flame me, but I'm prepared for that.

I find it very very frustrating that there are two Kubuntu forums. One as part of the Ubuntu forums and one right here. A lot of issues in Kubuntu are actually the same as Ubuntu issues. It is much better if Ubuntu-users could help Kubuntu users with these kind of problems. KDE issues can be dealt with in the Kubuntu specific sub-forums.

With merging I mean is to put the current topics in this forum into the Ubuntu forums. If that is not possible, an archive of topics who where posting here can be put in the Ubuntu forums.

Unite!

[aysiu]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

This has been discussed many times, and it's not going to happen.

Frankly, I don't see what the big deal is. If you want better support, go to the Ubuntu Forums. If you want only Kubuntu support, come here. I visit both, and it's not that big a deal.

[jeroenvrp]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

From an user point of view it is a big deal!

I totally understand that it is hard to leave our own forum, but we are Ubuntu, based on KDE.

The strength of a forum is how many people read it and post on it. We want to be an user friendly distro, so having a large forum is the best solution for the Kubuntu users.

[askrieger]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

There is another factor as well. I have found an unacceptable (to me) number of flame posts on the Ubuntu forums. I don't want to waste my time reading that stuff. How do you plonk people on a forum? I sometimes search over there, and I will look at a reference from here to threads over there, but I feel more comfortable here.

[Open Source]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Its quite simple, this site is just a little place dedicated to Kubuntu users (it is growing at a nice rate). I find posting at Ubuntu Forums can be overwhelming for a new person, and more importantly in the past (not sure about now) most of my searches never went through because the server was too overloaded. Thanks for the comments, but as aysiu mentioned, this has been discussed many times before.

[jeroenvrp]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Come on, let's give an example.

An user installs Kubuntu and is going to use some non-KDE-apps, because he/she is familiar with those apps and thinks those apps are just better, like Open Office and Firefox. Also he/she wants a good Photoshop-replacement and finds out that The Gimp is the best replacement on Linux. So the user has a KDE desktop, with some daily used non-KDE-apps. Ok, so far so good and I think a lot of people will recognize this.

Than this user has problems with either Firefox or OOo and it goes to the forum of his/her distro, right here. People will say: "Please try at the Ubuntu forums, there you have more change people will know the answer." They are off course totally right about that, but for the user is a few more extra steps:

1. Has go to another site.
2. Has to register again.
3. Have to understand another forum.
4. Have to come back to two forums for answers.

That is not user-friendly, even worse: it is very irritating and frustrating.

[Fenyx]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Won't happen coz:
1. Some people over the Ubuntuforums will object (there was one who even wanted the Kubuntu section kicked out )
2. The admin said it won't happen.

But I must admit it is at times confusing and difficult for some users to keep track of two forums (that's the reason I was asking if an RSS feed would be made available soon). I don't know how aysiu manages it, but I'm trying to do that as well. I've started to regularly post and answer questions here, as well as on the other side.

There has been little Kubuntu/KDE-related flame wars over at Ubuntuforums lately, and most of the flaming (about other topics) actually just involved two people replying to one another. Down times of Ubuntuforums has been few (the most recent involved the re-organization of the forums and adding new features).

Rather than merging/breaking off from Ubuntuforums, is there a way that we can make it easier to use both forums? Ubuntuforums has great Ubuntu/Linux support, while Kubuntuforums focuses on Kubuntu (and I find some features of this forum software a bit nicer).

[aysiu]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Well, the two are the same distro, actually, which is the whole point of your thread.

So when you say you go to the site of your distro, you could be coming here or the Ubuntu Forums.

You can see pretty easily that there are more forum members at the Ubuntu Forums than here and generally more activity.

Also, you often don't have to register at the Ubuntu Forums to get answers. Usually a simple Google search like site:ubuntuforums.org name of the problem will get you the answer.

In response to Fenyx, I don't find it difficult to use both forums. I just registered (same username, as you can see) on both and I have them both bookmarked at "new posts" so I don't have to check all the different subforums.

[Fenyx]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Wow! I'm also doing that! I have 2 bookmarks (one for Ubuntuforums, the other for Kubuntuforums), both bookmarked to the Subscribed Threads/New replies to your posts pages. And I have some sections of Ubuntuforums (Absolute Beginner, Kubuntu Support, and Ubuntu Cafe) in my RSS reader so I won't have to check the webpages often. The posts come to me! (Which reminds me. @Open Source: if you ever implement the RSS feeds, would it be possible to make one per section/sub-section, or even just the main sections)

But still, for new users, registering at 2 forums, maintaining posts at 2 forums, and monitoring 2 forums, might be a daunting task. I'm used to multi-tasking so it's not an issue for me.

[claydoh]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

I also am registered at both place and have no real issue dealing with looking/posting at both, though obviously the sheer number of members/posts over at Ubuntu's forums will lead to flames, moderated posts, etc. for the size of the place, imo it is a pretty mild place, especially considereing the vast expanse of posts.

Until more technically adept people post here, the place for the underhood stuff is going to the official forums, but most of that stuff is not DE specific anyway. So good or bad, using both forums is still a sensible way to do things.

And, as a little helper in searching Ubuntu's forums, http://mycroft.mozdev.org/ has firefox search addons for the forum, bugs and the Ubuntu wiki

[Hestia]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Sorry to drag up an old thread, I didn't think my question warranted a second new thread. Basically, I came looking for the official kubuntu forums and I'm a little confused. There's a kubuntu section on the well known ubuntu forums but there's also this forum that is linked to from the kubuntu site. The ubuntu forums have the canonical copyright in the footer, this forum states only the lewismedia copyright. So is this forum the official kubuntu forum? OK, most people will never look at the footer but it's not just the fact that there are two forums. It's also the look. All of the ubuntu site blends together nicely with matching designs for the various areas e.g. kubuntu site. The user then clicks on the kubuntu forum link and is faced with a portal that just doesn't fit in with the rest of the site. I first thought I must have clicked on the wrong link and went back to check. The fact that this portal just doesn't fit in with the rest of the site could put off some new users. It feels so out of place and if this is an official canonical run forum, it also feels like this part of the site has been neglected.

[Fenyx]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Um... I have to correct you on some things.

What you say is the Canonical copyright at the bottom of ubuntuforums.org? It says that the Ubuntu Logo, Ubuntu (name of OS), and Canonical (name of company) are copyrights of Canonical Ltd.

Official Ubuntu Forums. Ubuntu Logo, Ubuntu and Canonical are trademarks of Canonical Ltd.
vBulletin Version 3.5.3 - Copyright ©2000 - 2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Notice the dot after "Ubuntu Forums"? It means that it is not part of what is covered by the copyright of Canonical Ltd. The 2nd line states that the vBulletin software used by ubuntuforums is copyrighted by Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Now, at the bottom KubuntuForums.Net you see this:

Kubuntu Forums | Powered by SMF 1.0.6. © 2001-2005, Lewis Media. All Rights Reserved.

All it says is that KubuntuForums.Net is using the SMF software that is copyrighted by Lewis Media. Nothing else.

Also, Ubuntuforums is not an official Canonical forum, in the sense that the Admin/Moderators of the forums are not employed by Canonical (last time I checked). There are other Ubuntu forums (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/forums), but the ubuntuforums.org is by far the most famous one, because it is the only English Ubuntu forum. It's basically a volunteer project that has been blessed, but not stamped, by Canonical.

This forum is also not an official Canonical forum. It was created due to number of factors. There are many threads discussing what these are, but I'm a bit tired to look for them all. I'll be happy to add them here when I find them.

What's the difference between the two? It's quite simple. Ubuntuforums caters to the majority of Ubuntu users, who are most probably using GNOME while KubuntuForums.Net caters primarily to Kubuntu users. Because of its wider coverage or older existence, Ubuntuforums might contain more information regarding hardware, networking, customization, etc. It also has a very active section for any topic under the sun (Ubuntu Cafe), solely because more people go there. However, because we (KDE users) are a minority, we do not always get our questions answered, not because they don't want to answer, but because the might not know the answers. Here, Kubuntu users can ask questions and share knowledge without having to be told to run gedit instead of kate/kwrite (as aysiu so poetically says, not an exact quote though). Also, I've observed lately that Kubuntu support on the other side seem to be waning a bit (there are fewer answers than there are questions) compared to previous months. Of course, it might only be a seasonal/temporary thing.

As for the looks, it's only superficial and due to the fact the different forums use different forum software. Ubuntuforums is using vBulletin, while KubuntuForums uses SMF (Simple Machines Forum). I admit it may be confusing at first, but you will get used to it, specially when you start subscribing/joining other forums, which also use other software, like phpBB. Also, the look is not always permanent. About a month ago Ubuntuforums underwent a major makeover that drastically changed how it looks.

Hope that clarifies a few things for you.

[Hestia]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Thank you for your detailed reply. It certainly answers my question. However,

I admit it may be confusing at first, but you will get used to it, specially when you start subscribing/joining other forums, which also use other software, like phpBB.

I'm not new to forums and I'm very familiar with the popular forum software like vbulletin, phpBB, invision and SMF, I don't have any issues using the forum whatever is powering it .

My previous post was also meant as site feedback. Today isn't the first time I have been to this forum. I waddled over here [the kubuntu site] after hearing Shuttleworth's talk at Linuxtag. I'm a big KDE fan so I was like "Yay! it's about time" but finding this portal was very discouraging and disappointing. People don't know that this forum (or the ubuntu forum) is not run by canonical (it's easy to make the assumption that since the kubuntu and ubuntu sites are linking to both forums that they are 'official'). I'm sorry for my harsh words and please don't think that I've drifted over from the ubuntu forums because I haven't, I don't hang out over there at all, but, whether they are endorsed or not, they've made an effort to blend in with the rest of the site. This portal hasn't and unless someone makes the effort to locate threads clearly explaining that this forum is not run by canonical, many people will get the impression that this part of the official site is rather neglected. Do you see where I'm coming from? Ubuntu gets a really nice vBulletin powered forum complete with custom design matching the whole ubuntu look and Kubuntu gets a errr portal with a not very nice style. (Again, sorry for the harsh words, I do know that alot of effort goes into setting up and maintaining forums and I'm not saying that alot of hard work hasn't gone into this portal.) New users don't know that both forums are run by others and that the work is that of volunteers and come on, lets be honest here, how many people will make the effort to find out?

[Fenyx]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

People don't know that this forum (or the ubuntu forum) is not run by canonical (it's easy to make the assumption that since the kubuntu and ubuntu sites are linking to both forums that they are 'official').

There were a few discussions over at ubuntuforums that the admin mentioned that they're not employees of Canonical. Although it might help if the admin officially announced that they (ubuntuforums and kubuntuforums) are not completely "official" (they're only official insofar as they are recognized), it might also discourage people, thinking that the forums might not be that reliable.

I'm sorry for my harsh words and please don't think that I've drifted over from the ubuntu forums because I haven't, I don't hang out over there at all, ...

Nothing really harsh in what you've said. Actually, I might be the one that sounded harsh and reprimanding. Sorry 'bout that.
And there is no competition of loyalty here (I think). It doesn't matter where you hang out more often. I hang here and there. And so do other members here.

they've made an effort to blend in with the rest of the site.

Coul you clarify this? I'm not sure I see that clearly. Except for the colors, and some links (so maybe we lack some links?), there is nothing else that ubuntu.com and ubuntuforums.org has in common, at least to me.

This portal hasn't and unless someone makes the effort to locate threads clearly explaining that this forum is not run by canonical, many people will get the impression that this part of the official site is rather neglected.

In a way this site is really a bit neglected (not by Ubuntu/Kubuntu itself). We don't have as much people with the same knowledge as the people over there, especially in hardware and networking. You can be assured, though, that we have people who know KDE because it's what they use (presumably ).

Do you see where I'm coming from? Ubuntu gets a really nice vBulletin powered forum complete with custom design matching the whole ubuntu look and Kubuntu gets a errr portal with a not very nice style. (Again, sorry for the harsh words, I do know that alot of effort goes into setting up and maintaining forums and I'm not saying that alot of hard work hasn't gone into this portal.)

Well, we'll have to ask Open Source why he chose to use SMF rather than vBulletin. But personally, there are some features in SMF that I prefer over vBulletin. And also, did you know that the forums itself is embedded withing an MKPortal software, giving you features such as side bars, shout boxes, blogs, etc? You can't find that in vBulletin alone. (Not sure if MKPortal works with vBulletin, though). Also, you have to consider that ubuntuforums.org was probably started by a team, while this one, AFAIK, was initiated by Open Source alone (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

New users don't know that both forums are run by others and that the work is that of volunteers and come on, lets be honest here, how many people will make the effort to find out?

New users won't know, and won't be interested to know. They come in here usually looking for answers. If they don't find it, they look elsewhere. If they want to find out how to fix someting, sometimes urgently, they can't be bothered by information that tells them that the site that they are viewing is not a Canonical-run site, is different from Ubuntuforums.org, is run by volunteers, and is running on SMF software. It's only when they decide to settle in and be a part of the community, then they will begin to ask questions. Then, we will begin to give answers.

Note: Don't take my word as final and irrevocable truth. As you can see from my profile, I'm not an Admin or even a moderator. I guess we'll have to wait in suspense until Open Source comes in.

[Open Source]

Re: Merging the Kubuntu forums into the Ubuntu forums

Well, I was just reading through all of these comments, and Jucato you are correct in that I initiated this site last year. There are several moderators and one admin, myself. As far as the look of the site goes, I thought our header and theme looked very Kubuntuish, so I am surprised to hear otherwise. However, I am very open to any suggestions anyone may have. As far as why I use SMF; that is because it is free and has the most features of all the free forum software that I have researched. I started this site just to help other people like me with kubuntu. The main reason is that my searches at ubuntuforums.org kept timing out due to server overload. Anyhow, if Hestia, or anyone else has any artwork, or specific suggestions on how to change the look of the site, let me know and I can see about implementing them. Sorry for taking so long to reply, but I had been out of town.