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    Non-technical users

    Greetings all. Could I suggest a forum titled “Anomalies”? Firstly, perhaps I should introduce myself to explain where I'm coming from. I am a non-technical user of kubuntu since about a year ago, (previously used SuSE for about 6 years), and find it extremely difficult. My background includes some competence in mechanical and electronic engineering, and I have been a technical author. This should be easy, but it is not. From my first awareness of Linux, I have been an enthusiastic fan, but have always wanted it as something to use, not as something to “have fun with”. That means I have always limited myself to the graphic interface, because that seems the obvious interface between the computer and the user. When I drive a car, although I happen to know quite a lot about what happens between the air intake and the driven wheels, I interact with it through the controls. Similarly with the computer, I expect a direct access to the applications that motivate me to having a computer. Ubuntu, then Kubuntu, seemed to promise this. As such a user, I am not particularly frightened by the terminal facility as a way of doing something unusual, but only if I am offered a keystroke by keystroke recipe. Something like “just open the tarball”, or “type in something like ........” doesn't help at all. I think I speak for a large number of users (and a huge number of potential users) when I look for an O.S. that allows me to use a computer, rather than design, develop, or fix one, or indeed, to play with one.
    Back to the subject of 'anomalies'. There is often something that clearly isn't right, and seems dangerous or at least an annoying inconvenience, but for which this simple consumer has no answer. There is no explanation available for the cryptic messages, and the user forums seem to be the domain of more or less competent linux experts who think exclusively in command line terms. Right now, for example, every time I try to add a program or respond to the 'upgrade available' alert, I get the “Another process is using the packaging system database ... Would you like to attempt to resolve ....” dialog box, in which none of the options solves anything, or is at all re-assuring. This is followed by “There was an error commiting changes. Possibly ..... would break packages.” Great! Do I worry or not? Am I corrupting the system and risking meltdown every time I try to upgrade?
    I don't think this is the place for a list of such troubling junctures, but I hope it illustrates the need for a place for a user, (this simple consumer-type user), to register this sort of problem, and hope for help.
    I have to repeat, I don't think there is a more dedicated, committed Linux user. But mostly, I must report that it feels that no one in the community cares a fig about users like me, when it is users like me that represent the way towards a radical expansion of the uptake of your beautiful idea.
    P.S. Instead of “Anomalies”, perhaps “Is this serious?” or “Should I Panic?” would give a better indication of the intent of the forum I'm proposing. Thank you.

    #2
    Re: Non-technical users

    Greetings!

    I see your point, and feel your pain (or used to, anyway).

    But, I respectfully disagree with your proposal. I think the problem with an "Anomaly" subject is, for the non-technical or new user, it is the replacement for the entire forum. After all, if you don't have any idea what the reason for an observed phenomenon is, then to you, it is an anomaly. So, we could simply dispense with the numerous categories that the Forum attempts to use, including "Help The New User", and simply have the Anomaly category. Doesn't seem like a useful move, to me -- what is the harm in asking non-technical folks to at least segregate their problems by release versions, hardware/software/installation/networking, and other large categories?

    Moreover, this Forum and Ubuntu Forum have accumulated years of searchable posts, such that, in truth, there are very few new "anomalies" at all. Searching is a little tricky, of course, you often have to try multiple combinations and terminologies to "hit", but most of these problems have already been asked and answered multiple times. For example:

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3090848.0

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3087547.0

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3090531.0

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3090310.0

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3089279.0

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3088146.0

    http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3090108.0


    So, regardless of how new or non-technical the user with a problem might be, anyone can enter "another process is using" in the search window and get lots of free help, instantly, and with no human intervention.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Non-technical users

      Hello,

      this might help you with adept manager issues...go to the konsole and type
      sudo dpkg --configure -a ( you might need to type your password)

      then
      sudo apt-get update and then
      sudo apt-get install

      I had the same problem with adept and it worked for me ( and others too).

      Byebye
      I break it, therefore I learn it.<br />

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Non-technical users

        Thanks dibl and Linuxgirl.
        I guess I failed in my attempt to set out my idea for a new project. While I warmly appreciate the attempts to help me with a specific problem, that was not the point of my post. What I am proposing is a way to make Linux (through the pathway of kubuntu) accessible to the ordinary user! How many of the contributors to this or any other Linux forum can recommend it to someone who has just bought his first computer? Every introduction to Linux I have ever encountered addresses itself to the Windows user, or the Mac user, and assumes that he/she was quite expert in that environment. Who would recommend Linux to an aunt, (or an uncle, not to be sexist about it)? When I stumble and don't know what do do next I have to ask for help from my wife, (who used to head the computer department for a health facility employing 150 people), and she applies her Windows skills to bail me out. This is a kindness on her part, because she wouldn't touch Linux with a barge pole, and finds my commitment to it incomprehensible.
        To get to specifics: Dibl, you use the phrase “non-technical or new user”, suggesting that in time, one will get over this condition. This is echoed throughout the forums with use of the word “newbie”. I am a non-technical user and intend to stay one, like the vast majority of computer users. I have nothing against and in no way deprecate expertise, or “geekdom”, it's just that I am a geek in enough other fields that I just want to use a computer to help me in those areas, and am quite happy to let other people design and develop the hardware and software to permit me to do this.
        As I mentioned in my first post, I have been totally convinced and persuaded by the Linux idea from the first time I became aware of it, and with the current state of development of Linux, of KDE, and of kubuntu, it seems that all the bits are there for a system that is totally accessible to anyone who likes the idea. All that is missing is the accessibility itself! The problem is that everyone involved is pretty good with computers! The system has got to be good enough that it can be used by people that are not good with computers.
        It seems to me there are essentially two ways to get there from here. One is to tackle it at a basic level. Initiate a project, (The Accessibility Project?) and starting at the desktop, re-design all the dialog boxes, giving clear instructions in plain language how to solve the problem, enter the required data, whatever. The installation screens are not a bad model of how simple it could be. Possibly even write a users manual. The other way would be more gradual, and require less resources. Start a forum and invite people like me (and all those people that wrote about Adept Manager problem) to identify obstacles to their use of the system, and then to solve them. I mean, to fix it. A clean installation of 7.1 should not trip over its own feet trying to install an upgrade it has just recommended!
        This letter is getting too long. I hope you find something interesting in it, and will respond with your ideas.
        P.S. I do not expect this to be a one-way street. For my part, I would be quite happy to commit say 5 hours a week to write, proof read, or edit chapters of a users manual, dialog screens, or whatever I might be asked to do. Thanks, mzee.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Non-technical users

          Dear mister,

          I must say I completely understand you and I also agree with most of what you've written. Like you, I could also be called a non-techical user. My first kubuntu was installed on my first laptop less than a month ago. It is true that I used Windows 98 and XP before that but I only used it to write in Word and use Media Player. I never installed it and if something was wrong I asked the computer technician to fix it.
          A friend of mine is a computer "geek" though and he presented to me the idea of Linux which seemed unbelievable and marvelous. He installed it for me and then...I was on my own. First I read a few articles about the begginings of Linux community and thus realized that there lay the reason why almost everyone who uses Linux OS ( I'd say about 85% ) knows his way well around computers - because primarily Linux was too complicated for a non-computer-specialist to use. I mean way too complicated. The second group of people who use Linux are those who have been using it for more than ten years ( I believe it was in 1995 or later that the first Linux distributions which were simple enough appeared. Imagine what someone in our position knows about Linux after they've been using it for so long.) I seems to me that when you become a member of the Linux community you kind of have to dedicate ( at least) one hundred hours of your time to get to know your computer and the OS, and then you slowly start to understand what everyone is talking about. And after a few years you can start to actively contribute to the community. Like I said, I am a new user but I have somehow been sucked into this "you can do anything you want with Linux," and I am now willingly entering the world of computer technology. From your point of view this is unnecessary and unwanted ( and nothing is wrong with that), the same way it is for my mum or my uncle. If a project you presented/proposed would be carried out, I believe many people would choose Linux over other OS's. Maybe there could be a special variant of the OS like " Gutsy Gibbons for people who want to use it and not study it" where everything would be as you described ( in our particular situation the Adept manager would display a window saying " Hi, something is wrong. Please open the Terminal located in System and type.....This will resolve your problem."). Since my computer- related knowledge is not that great, I don't know if that is even possible ( I mean that the system automatically finds a solution to the problem and displays it. I 've seen it in Win Vista but it usually doesn't solve the problem.). I think that with that kind of computer-user interaction, you would learn to use it more quickly-and without knowing it.
          Yet I somehow cannot imagine a bunch of computer experts writing programs and applications for people who know nothing about the computer science...It's like a professional defect - after studying or doing something for a long period of time you lose perspective on things and its hard to tell what's important and what not.
          If there will be any interest in your wonderful idea I would be willing to contribute in any way I can.
          I apologize for the direct answer to your question which was not the point of your post...I pictured you in my position (sometimes I just wish someone would tell me what to do instead of having to look through 20 pages to find what I'm looking for.)
          Secondly I apologize for the lenght of my post.
          Bye , Anna
          I break it, therefore I learn it.<br />

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Non-technical users

            Originally posted by mzeemwalimu

            Who would recommend Linux to an aunt, (or an uncle, not to be sexist about it)?
            I did, to my computer-illiterate 75-year old mother in-law. And it's working just fine - she does her web browsing, e-mailing, and online banking on a Kubuntu Feisty system I built last June (now upgraded to Gutsy), and she has no idea what it is.


            I think there are multiple dimensions to this question, and I certainly don't wish to be argumentative about it -- as I said before, I respect fully the other views. Here is mine:

            1. Linux seems pretty usable and reliable for a person like my mom in-law. She never touched a PC before a year ago, and she only wants to do those 3 things plus an occasional game of solitaire. I warned her not to go exploring among the menus, and she's not adventuresome, so there has been nothing worse than the panel inadvertently migrating about the screen for the past year.

            2. Installing and configuring Linux is a bitch. No kidding. Anyone who claims it is easy is lying and ought to be horsewhipped. But just routinely using it isn't difficult, IMO.

            3. A lot of folks have spent the past 15 or 20 years becoming "knowledgeable" on MS DOS and/or Windows. All that "know-how" becomes our enemy when attempting to configure a Linux system -- it's either useless or downright counterproductive to our efforts. Moreover, there seems to be an unstated expectation that we will acquire an equivalent level of expertise with Linux in what -- a week?

            4. "Easy" is like "beauty" -- it's all in the eye of the beholder. My observation on that subject is "Mandarin is easy for a native speaker."

            5. There is no "there" there for Linux. It is almost entirely a voluntary undertaking by uncompensated people of good will. The user who wants to do more than my mom in-law with his/her Linux system must become his or her own primary source of help and information, augmented by Mr. Google and these Fora. In that regard, I appreciate the proffer of some time -- I wish I had some time to offer, beyond the little bit that I can contribute to those who post for help here.

            Thanks for sharing your ideas!





            Comment


              #7
              Re: Non-technical users

              Originally posted by dibl

              2. Installing and configuring Linux is a bitch. No kidding. Anyone who claims it is easy is lying and ought to be horsewhipped. But just routinely using it isn't difficult, IMO.

              3. A lot of folks have spent the past 15 or 20 years becoming "knowledgeable" on MS DOS and/or Windows. All that "know-how" becomes our enemy when attempting to configure a Linux system -- it's either useless or downright counterproductive to our efforts. Moreover, there seems to be an unstated expectation that we will acquire an equivalent level of expertise with Linux in what -- a week?
              2. What OS isn't. I can honsetly say I've dealt with many, including all of Microsoft's, and they all are in their own rights.

              3. Agreed.

              My two cents. But I do also understand what is being discussed here. Which to any OS there isn't ever an easy path. Nature of the beast.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Non-technical users

                I have a strong sense of resonance in the room. While there are important ways in which I feel what I'm saying is different from what I hear coming back, I also feel convinced that there are strong chords, or perhaps accords, finding voice among the thoughts being expressed.
                To the details: Your (I mean of all respondents) descriptions of the present state of affairs re. kubuntu-linux certainly seem fair. For the people currently using (may I use KL?) it, and for the predictable regular increment of similarly motivated and informed joiners of the community, there is no compelling reason to suggest a major change in approach. But this is still a very small number compared to those who are going to buy their first computer this year, and default into the windows club, let alone the massive current user base of that O.S.. I am hoping that we can make it a serious question for this huge majority of users whether to take up the Linux option, or to lock into the windows environment.
                I am not suggesting that KL should be a windows, nor that there is anything to be gained by seeing it as a race to get more adherents than this, that, or any other O.S.. Just that, by working really seriously towards making KL truly accessible to the next person attracted to the Linux idea, it could establish itself as the important fraction of total O.S.s in use that any rational assessment of the options would suggest. To repeat myself, almost everything that is needed for this re-arrangement of the operating system world is in place. That is why the prospect is so tantalizing.
                Both Linux Girl and Dibl describe the user that might benefit from some simplification. I am not that user, nor is he the target of my proposals, but I certainly recognize the people you have sketched out. I had a father-in-law whose Parkinson's added to his age to make the computer virtually inaccessible to him. I installed 98 on an obsolete box, put wordpad on the desktop (stripping the tool bars to a minimum), adjusted the repetition rates on the mouse and keyboard, reduced mouse usage to a minimum, and equipped him with some templates to save keystrokes. This gave him some years of being able to communicate by mail as his contact with the world. My wife has a somewhat similar story relating to an aged cousin.
                But what I'm talking about here are people who want to Use their computers. I want to be able to install new software to be able to do illustrations in articles I write, to manipulate photographic images, to use musical notation, to develop the use of the spreadsheet as a virtual analog computer, etc. etc.. I need the computer to be as versatile and convenient as any tool imaginable, dare I say, an extension of my hands.
                Some nuts and bolts: Clearly the messages and the language in the current dialog boxes carry the necessary information to be useful and satisfactory for the present user base. But if each dialog box included a button labeled “plain language”, or rather better, if the current information was available through a button labeled “Advanced User”, and the default dialog box read, for example,”Adept Updater has run into a minor bug. Click 'continue' to let the system work around the problem, and wait for the message 'update complete' even though the screen will be partially blanked out during the install, then click “Quit”. Alternatively, go to kubuntuforums.net, find the board labeled xxx, and tap into the discussion of this problem.”
                Clearly, I would want to re-write the above once the true nature of the problem and its solutions was explained to me, but this is not 'dumbing down'. It's treating the user as an intelligent person who is not a computer expert.
                Again, I'll stop before I wear out your patience,(I hope), but I have many many more examples of obstacles to understanding that I'm sure don't need to be there.
                Thanks everyone, mzee.

                Comment

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