Isn't It Supposed To Be Easier Than This?

[soundchaser59]

I ran a demo Kubuntu from a usb iso install and the only thing I really got out of it is "Now I understand why Joe and Jane Public don't want to use it." I couldn't even get the systray clock to display the correct time, it kept reverting back to Greenwich Mean Time, even though the control app for it would show my local time. No scroll wheel with the mouse, even though the control app says the wheel is working. With little "bugs" like that, it's no wonder this stuff won't catch on with the masses. Is it just because it was a usb "Try Kubuntu" install? It sure as heck wasn't awesome enough to make me install on my hard drive and make the switch from Windows. Is the transition supposed to be similar to a custodian becoming a rocket scientist?

Anyone have experiences with using Kubuntu Studio to do studio recording with a DAW app like Reaper? My biggest fear is that my old EMU interface won't work, even though I'm pretty sure Reaper will probably work just fine. I am absolutely itching to break away from this Windows ball and chain, but I didn't think I would have to research a thousand command line mods and esoteric file manipulations just to make Kubuntu as dummy friendly as some installs of Windows are.

Not ready to wipe out Windows until Kubuntu proves to me that I can use it without being an Einstein software architect in disguise. What am I doing wrong? Which classes did I sleep thru? Do I have to do a parallel install on my hard drive to get correct functionality, instead of running "try me" from the usb stick? The last help forum I read thru had people burning new images and editing files from command prompts and printing out system specs, and that is what led me to the "No wonder Joe Public won't use it!" moment. I didn't even want to dig into why video clips won't play or how to get music interface drivers for my home studio.

[Qqmike]

I hear that Mint is a good out-of-the-box-ready-to-click distro. Comes in different flavors.

[soundchaser59]

I hear that Mint is a good out-of-the-box-ready-to-click distro. Comes in different flavors.

Thanks, others are saying that as well. I'll try it.

[dequire]

Bye bye.

[GreyGeek]

Don't forget to post and tell us how Mint is working for you!

[soundchaser59]

Bye bye.

And this comment is intended to convey what message or meaning? Please elaborate.

[soundchaser59]

Don't forget to post and tell us how Mint is working for you!

I can do that.

[GreyGeek]

I can do that.

Thanks! I appreciate your input. I ran Mint KDE 17.2 for the first three months of this year and found it to be a very nice distro. I decided to return to Kubuntu because, IMO, it has a better btrfs setup than Mint, or openSUSE. I'd move to Mint in a heart beat and feel comfortable doing so if Kubuntu didn't work well with my hardware. That's what is nice about Linux -- choice!

[soundchaser59]

First quick and dirty impression.....if Mint were a book, it would be Ubuntu For Dummies. For example, I've read that audio has been a sticking point for newbies trying out Linux. So the first thing I tried (running Mint 18 from USB....Cinnamon would not load, some missing files or something) is playing some MP3's and some video clips. As I was clicking on things to figure out why the files would not play, a message popped up saying I could download missing drivers or codecs. It displayed a list of possibilities and I selected one, let it download and install, then restarted the player. The music played. Same process with the video clip.

So far it seems very intuitive and friendly, but I haven't done anything very dazzling yet either. Libre Office is already present, and there is something on the menu about "Install Multimedia Codecs - Add all the missing multimedia codecs" which is a nice touch. I haven't had to do any command line mods yet, having things I need install automatically at my choice is very nice.

There are places I go to read and ask questions where it seems there is an attitude underneath the "helpful smile in every aisle" skins that greet me. (you should recognize that cliche from your local tv ads!) I read that there may be some who don't want Linux to be friendly and more appealing to the masses. What kind of disposition that stems from I don't know. There may be some who feel like non-programmers should just stay the heck away and stop diluting the gene pool. (they are out there) I'm not into that. I'm not afraid of the command line and the other mods I see described, but I don't have time to fumble my way thru all of that just to see if the thing will do what I want to do. Too many customized distros and things that work here but not there is not necessarily a good thing when there are so many people itching to break away from the Microsoft Megamonster.

Maybe Mint can help change that. My approach is give me a distro that does the home / home office basics as is, without making me put on my Linus Einstein hats. Let the OS show me that it will do the basic stuff like word docs, spreadsheets, movies and music, email and internet right OOB. Get me hooked enough to let go of my death grip on the false security that is Windows. Then when I have made the switch, then I will become more curious about the in depth stuff. Previously, I couldn't even begin to sway anyone away from Windows by using any version of Linux. Now with something like Mint as a gateway OS, maybe those people will take another look and say OK, let's try this!

Hope that makes 50% sense. I know Mint won't handle my music studio needs, but if it can replace my home "office" Windows machine and get all the same tasks done, then I'm in. Eventually, like you, I will want to try more in depth stuff and experiment with more challenging distros. Maybe someday Linux will also get me out of my C# / ASP / SQL rut at work!

[soundchaser59]

Nice to know that Linux doesn't really need anti-virus goonware running at all times like Windows does. Man, a guy can catch a virus in 5 minutes flat on most typical Windows machines. Won't bother me to leave that scourge behind.

Nice to know I don't have to wipe my hard drive right away either. I can set up a dual system and learn Linux basics while still having access to my existing files on the Windows portion of the hdd.

Also realized I can solve one simple "problem" by getting a new usb mouse. I put this old single core machine in my home office many months ago and forgot that this is a ps/2 mouse I'm using. No wonder it doesn't like the scroll wheel.

I opened up Libre Office Base and I swear the table design view is almost identical to MS Access. I'll be playing with that soon, since I'm a closet db nerd at home and at work.

Once I get used to the command line syntax I'll have a lot more options and flexibility. Are the commands common among all distros? Or does each distro have its own dialect and syntactical idosyncrasies?

[soundchaser59]

And is it just me, or do all my graphics and videos actually look sharper and better under this OS?

(gratuitous post count booster upper)

[Qqmike]

Your cautious approach is common--let's say "normal" (hate that word, actually)--among those who switch (M$ --> Linux), or at least who also adopt Linux along with M$. I went from XP to Kubuntu around 2006 and never looked back. I have a good machine (built a couple years ago, Intel based with mainstream ASUS motherboard), but I'm still happily and trouble-free using Kubuntu 14.04.

I am no expert on anything (other than perhaps existentialism spiced with cosmology :-) ), but for my own use, I wrote up things on using the command line, that got expanded, and now--FWIW--I have it here in 3 parts:

https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...sole-Beginners

--> no theory (I don't know any command-line programming theory), just some nuts and bolts to help people get started with common tasks, and a few advanced tasks. BTW, FWIW, I seldom use the command line lately, not when there is a reliable GUI handy; but the command line is handy sometimes for bootloader stuff (GRUB2), using a high-powered copy function called dd, and many other common tasks ... or dealing with recalcitrant graphics drivers ... (hurray for on-board Intel graphics) ...

[wizard10000]

...Are the commands common among all distros? Or does each distro have its own dialect and syntactical idosyncrasies?

With the exception of software management tools the commands are common. F'rinstance all Debian-derived distributions use a package manager called dpkg, where Redhat-derived distributions (and also SuSE) use a package manager called rpm (Redhat Package Manager). Arch uses its own package manager called pacman and more obscure distributions may use something different or nothing at all

Hope this helps -

[GreyGeek]

First quick and dirty impression.....if Mint were a book, it would be Ubuntu For Dummies. For example, I've read that audio has been a sticking point for newbies trying out Linux. So the first thing I tried (running Mint 18 from USB....Cinnamon would not load, some missing files or something) is playing some MP3's and some video clips. As I was clicking on things to figure out why the files would not play, a message popped up saying I could download missing drivers or codecs. It displayed a list of possibilities and I selected one, let it download and install, then restarted the player. The music played. Same process with the video clip.
So far it seems very intuitive and friendly, but I haven't done anything very dazzling yet either. Libre Office is already present, and there is something on the menu about "Install Multimedia Codecs - Add all the missing multimedia codecs" which is a nice touch. I haven't had to do any command line mods yet, having things I need install automatically at my choice is very nice.

Kubuntu used to have (IIRC) a check box during the install that asked if you wanted to install restricted codecs. There is a package in the repository, "kubuntu-restricted-codecs", that installs several of them.

There are places I go to read and ask questions where it seems there is an attitude underneath the "helpful smile in every aisle" skins that greet me. (you should recognize that cliche from your local tv ads!) I read that there may be some who don't want Linux to be friendly and more appealing to the masses. What kind of disposition that stems from I don't know. There may be some who feel like non-programmers should just stay the heck away and stop diluting the gene pool. (they are out there) I'm not into that. I'm not afraid of the command line and the other mods I see described, but I don't have time to fumble my way thru all of that just to see if the thing will do what I want to do. Too many customized distros and things that work here but not there is not necessarily a good thing when there are so many people itching to break away from the Microsoft Megamonster.

One thing that has always drawn me to this forum is its family friendly attitude. My grandsons visit here and I appreciate that the profanity and vulgarity, along with MOST of the hostile, responses present in many forums are absent here. Knowing the guy who posted it, the "Bye Bye" response was not meant to be hostile. People who post nonfactual negative or hostile rants and/or do drive-by shootings are usually not responded to and they soon get the message and leave. Posts about problems with ANY OS, including Windows, are welcomed here. One of our admins, Steve Riley, who is in absentia right now, is a former MS and Google employee, network security expert with published works, and all around genius. Blows a pretty good horn, too! He's getting acclimated to his new job at Gartner. With few exceptions all of us here have had to, or currently need to, use Windows. That doesn't mean we approve of the business ethics and practices of Microsoft, though.

Maybe Mint can help change that. My approach is give me a distro that does the home / home office basics as is, without making me put on my Linus Einstein hats. Let the OS show me that it will do the basic stuff like word docs, spreadsheets, movies and music, email and internet right OOB. Get me hooked enough to let go of my death grip on the false security that is Windows. Then when I have made the switch, then I will become more curious about the in depth stuff. Previously, I couldn't even begin to sway anyone away from Windows by using any version of Linux. Now with something like Mint as a gateway OS, maybe those people will take another look and say OK, let's try this!

As I get older and my memory isn't so good the one thing I appreciate about Kubuntu is that allows me to run it without going to the CLI, for the most part. I used to use a lot of the CLI but not any more. It's a result of the "can't remember squat" syndrome that comes with being 75. I still use "locate" and "apt-get", but that's about all. Now it's Dolphin or SystemSetting5.

Since I started using Kubuntu with the 9.04 alpha it has been fast, stable and easy to use. The 16.04 release is not as stable as previous releases. YET. There are three reasons for that:
1) The Qt API developers upped their version from 4.x to 5.x. It is an essentially incompatible jump. Thus, the KDE desktop was forced to make the change as well. Just like the jump from 3.x to 4.x, there is a lot of experimentation going on. Feedback is affecting how the developers make adjustments to Plasma5, as it should.
2) Upstart, which had, several versions ago, replaced sysvinit and previous init tools, has been replaced with systemd. Systemd is now in MOST distros now, with the exception of Slackware and PCLinuxOS, AFAIK. At first I disliked systemd but as I investigated it I saw its potential I became excited about it. It is making system management a LOT easier and puts everything in one place. It, too, will continue to evolve as user experiences are fed back to developers.
3) Wayland has replaced xorg as the video server in Kubuntu. Ubuntu, the base OS for Kubuntu, is remaining with Mir.

I used Mint while its version of KDE was based on Plasma4. It was everything I expected. The latest version of Mint's KDE is now Plama5, so you may find that it experiences some of the same problems that Plasma5 experiences in Kubuntu 16.04, since the KDE sources are the same.

Hope that makes 50% sense. I know Mint won't handle my music studio needs, but if it can replace my home "office" Windows machine and get all the same tasks done, then I'm in. Eventually, like you, I will want to try more in depth stuff and experiment with more challenging distros. Maybe someday Linux will also get me out of my C# / ASP / SQL rut at work!

When I was programming for the Nebraska Dept of Revenue I introduced them to Linux and KDE4 and used them to write their homestead and gaming apps. I had tried to convince them to choose PostgreSQL as their database but the suits excuse for going with Oracle was that it had paid support. The online support forums for PostgreSQL were free, so they "thought" that the support would be lacking. My son became the DB Admin there and after failing to get paid support for several problems (tickets would set for days and in some cases weeks without a reply) he went to the same forum that supported PostgreSQL and found answers to his problems within minutes and hours, rarely more than a day. Free. They started an Oracle subforum on that forum and just about everyone he knew who was an Oracle admin was logged in there. Now, Revenue spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for Oracle cal's. By now it wouldn't surprise me if their total license costs were several millions of dollars of taxpayer's money. And, Oracle keeps pushing them to upgrade, i.e., the old classic income churning treadmill.

I was using VisualStudio 6.0 with C++ and a TrollTech Qt plugin to write my apps. I found that if I moved the source code to my linux side and used Kate to edit and g++to compile, with KDbg to debug, against PostgreSQL running on a server in my office, I could compile and test homestead 2-3X faster than with VS+C++6.0. When I got things the way I wanted them I'd port the source to my Windows side and compile there against Oracle. I used compiler defines to chose between PostgreSQL and Oracle based on environmental variables.

Nice to know that Linux doesn't really need anti-virus goonware running at all times like Windows does. Man, a guy can catch a virus in 5 minutes flat on most typical Windows machines. Won't bother me to leave that scourge behind.

The old XP average time for a newly installed XP just connected to the Internet to get owned was 4 minutes!
However, Linux is still susceptible to various kinds of attacks. Social engineering is a big one. It doesn't matter how secure your Linux box is, if you download a file from an unvetted source, save it to the HD, add execute permission, and then run it, you are likely to get owned. Betrayal in high places can compromise Linux as well. The openSSL (TSL) code, written by a PhD and his grad student, had what many feel was a deliberate hole placed into it (unlimited text box entry), and it was in the wild for two years. Other TSL vulnerabilities are discussed here. The main point is that while Linux is probably secure from most small-time thieves and hackers, I doubt it could withstand a sustained attack by hacker team supported by a nation-state. Especially if they've corrupted a coder or repository.

...I opened up Libre Office Base and I swear the table design view is almost identical to MS Access. I'll be playing with that soon, since I'm a closet db nerd at home and at work.

I've used MS's Jet Engine for Access and I've also used LibreOffice since it began life as an editor as the old German word processor called StarWriter. The 3.1 release in 1997 was supported on Linux and I first tried Linux in May of 1998 using RH5.0 StarWriter actually became a quasi desktop because it presented a full screen GUI with an email, writer, browser, news and other features as icons on their 'desktop'. It wasn't till I saw an ad for KDE 1.0 Beta in SuSE 5.3 in September of 1998 that I switched to it to use KDE 1.0 About the same time Sun Microsystems released their proprietary version of OpenOffice and I purchased it. In 2000 they open sourced it and that's when I moved to the open source version.

I was amazed to see in 2000 the same table and design interface in OpenOffice that was presented to me when I used MS Access. Most people do not realize that that interface is still there and it is very easy to create a multi-form GUI that links a parent database, say "Customers" to a child database, say "orders" and be able to add and remove customers and orders at will with GUI components that were created automatically. Have a table of guests and you want to send them personal invites to your daughter's wedding? Use LibreOffice to create the table that holds their names, nick names, addresses, etc., including personal information. Then use the letter form to create a letter that accesses the guests table and populates the letter with their names, addresses and person info ("How is <guest.daughter1> doing?") Keeping stats for your son's baseball team and want to generate stat tables,etc., and mail them to their parents? Automatically? LibraOffice is your tool.

Once I get used to the command line syntax I'll have a lot more options and flexibility. Are the commands common among all distros? Or does each distro have its own dialect and syntactical idosyncrasies?

The CLI is pretty much the same for all distros. Wikipedia reports that the bash shell's name is an acronym for Bourne-again shell, punning on the name of the Bourne shell that it replaces and on the term "born again" that denotes spiritual rebirth in contemporary American Christianity. The bash shell has a LOT of built in capabilities, leading to entire books on shell scripts. In most repositories is a package called "abs_guide", i.e., Advanced Bash Shell Guide. It will teach you as much as you want to know about shell scripting. Occasionally, distro developers will write a shell script of a utility which adds to the ability of bash and include it in their repository. But, pretty much across the board, bash is the same and has the same capabilities and addons. Do a search for "bash" in your package manager.

Where you will notice differences between distros is how they implement their desktop setup, config and management GUI's. The base CLI utilities (ls, vdir, locate, man, mv, rm. mount, umount, etc) are pretty much the same. GNome2, GNome3, Unity, KDE, Cinnamon, Xfce, Enlightenment, LXDE, FluxBox and other desktops (perhaps 20 in all) present the user with different ways to see and run their desktop. I chose KDE because I could configure it to look like Win95 and later XP, which I was forced to use at work, so that there was less disconnect switching between desktops.

The major desktops all have their own configuration tools, but underneath, at the CLI, systemd is bringing them back together again. Do a man on systemd, systemctl and journalctl to see how they work. RH has a nice set of tutorials on their website, but understand that not all of the distros have implemented systemd to the same extent that RH has. But, eventually, they will. For example, in Kubuntu 16.04 the use of sysvinit or Upstart commands still work, and you can see their scripts in /etc/init.d/. But, check that same directory in the latest RH and you won't see much in there. In Ubuntu/Kubuntu 15.10 both Upstart and systemd were active and one could switch between them. In Kubuntu 16.04 a critical Upstart dependency is missing and can't be installed, making switch back to Upstart, or between Upstart and systemd essentially impossible. At least for me. I tried it and borked my system.


Also understand that there is ONLY ONE Linux kernel. There are many release versions, and each has additions and removals that make them unique in some ways. So, compatibility of a Linux distro with any particular laptop depends a lot on the version of the kernel that distro will install. Hardware is a moving target, and the kernel moves with it. It creates a "window" of compatibility, usually 3 to 6 years wide. Older kernels support older hardware, newer kernels support newer hardware. If you have a distro that runs your hardware perfectly, it may be practical to lock the kernel it is using to prevent it from being "upgraded" to a newer release, which may not have modules that were compatible with your hardware. In the nearly twenty years I've been using Linux the kernel has probably increased 10 fold over the first version I used in RH5.0. Like a distro, each version of the kernel has a beginning and an end of life. The 3.14.79 kernel was announced EOL on 9/11/2016. The "window" of compatibility depends entirely on the hardware. Distros usually cannot support what the kernel does not support.

My laptop, an Acer 7739, is six years old - two computer generations! The kernel I am running is
4.4.0-38-generic #57-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 6 15:42:33 UTC 2016 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
(use uname -a) to see what kernel your distro is running.
The latest stable kernel is 4.7.4. Sooner, rather than later, I suspect that some hardware on my laptop may not continue being supported as my laptop passes out of the range of supported hardware. Just like a distro, the kernel has a size limit to controlling what can be stuffed into it. I have a CDROM on my laptop. Modern laptops do not have CDROMS. My USB supports 2.0. Modern laptops have 3.0. I don't have a touch screen display. Sooner than later these features may not be present in a later 4.9 or 5.x kernel. Or, my laptop may just wear out by then. Already my thermal paste is drying out and I'm too shaky to take my laptop apart and replace the paste.

So, I hope you see why some hardware works with Linux and some doesn't. What is surprising is that one can buy a new laptop with Win10 (or 8 or 7) installed and find out that some hardware still doesn't work!

[soundchaser59]

Your cautious approach is common--let's say "normal" (hate that word, actually)--among those who switch (M$ --> Linux), or at least who also adopt Linux along with M$. I went from XP to Kubuntu around 2006 and never looked back. I have a good machine (built a couple years ago, Intel based with mainstream ASUS motherboard), but I'm still happily and trouble-free using Kubuntu 14.04.

I am no expert on anything (other than perhaps existentialism spiced with cosmology :-) ), but for my own use, I wrote up things on using the command line, that got expanded, and now--FWIW--I have it here in 3 parts:

https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...sole-Beginners

--> no theory (I don't know any command-line programming theory), just some nuts and bolts to help people get started with common tasks, and a few advanced tasks. BTW, FWIW, I seldom use the command line lately, not when there is a reliable GUI handy; but the command line is handy sometimes for bootloader stuff (GRUB2), using a high-powered copy function called dd, and many other common tasks ... or dealing with recalcitrant graphics drivers ... (hurray for on-board Intel graphics) ...

Thank You for the link, that is awesome that you put that together. Just glancing at it initially I can tell it will be very helpful. Your work is having apositive impact on another fellow human being. {)

BTW, I read all of the Castaneda books when I was in high school. The teachings are deceptively useful.