Where is all the printer utility software?

[RLynwood]

I've kind of thought that HP was the only one that provides all that Windows-like detail to its Linux-based printer software; it's the only one I've seen. But that's what the distros build into their foss software, esp. in HP's case. I see all their components in the Muon Pkg. Mgr. with what looks like hplip names. But, does Kubuntu, e.g., include the Device Manager component in its distro.? In other words, can I remove the hplip software and then use the distro's hplip-based components and still have the Device Manager? I'd swear that I saw the Device Manager in the Muon Package Manager the other day, but I didn't see it this morning when I checked last.

[Qqmike]

I guess I'm a little lost here. Fwiw, most of us here simply use the hplip provided by Muon Package Manager. I believe hplip now comes with Kubuntu (whereas, before you had to separately install it after installing Kubuntu). Then, if hplip-gui is not already installed, you install it, and that gives you your graphical front-end (to Device Manager). And install xsane (or something) for scanning. And, in my experience you have what you need, including the Device Manager.
Edit: It sounds like you may be having a different experience.

[RLynwood]

Sounds like you aren't lost at all. You just already have gotten what you want without having gotten into HP's foss site. I got to it the other way around. I've used the distro-provided printer software until a couple of years ago, too. But I never had any of that extensive maintenance/customizability software available. I just thought that that was the trade-off for using foss. Then, a couple of years ago, I found the hplip site and tried it, finding that it provided the Device Manager, essentially the same software as I'd seen in Windows. I've used that ever since. Now that I'm into Kubuntu, thinking this will be my final distro and wanting that device manager but preferring to use the distro's own software, I'd like to know how to get it. You just described that. But I've wound up with two whole systems installed, one of each. And I'm having a problem with each. The hplip software's Device Manager doesn't show my color cartridge, and Kubuntu's software doesn't show the Device Manager, and I can't find its downloaded user manual. (Actually, I have; it's just that it is a collection of web pages, not organized into a single file, as a pdf, and it's buried in the file system, not out in the Device Manager, System tray icon, or anywhere normally accessible.) Now, I want to totally remove the hplip-installed software and try Kub's. But I haven't seen how to do that. I'll try what you've described, though; that's the way to go, I think.

[claydoh]

Oh, I am lost a bit here, too. I think. maybe we simply don't quite understand your question, perhaps?

hplip from HP, ands the HP specific software you can install via Muon are the exact same thing (other than version numbering)
The device manager I think you are referring to is specific to HP devices - hplip-gui as found in Muon is the portion that has the HP device manager in debian/ubuntu based distros.

What most distros provide is a basic printer config tool that has zero brand-specific monitoring tools, used for setting up various printer config options and selecting drivers if the underlying cups print system does not automagically find and set that up for you. Kubuntu has its own tool, but KDE has one as well, as does Unity and Gnome and other desktops and distros. Manufacturers are the ones that have to create these, or provide information on how to interface with their products. I believe in Windows, the OS's printer tools there are much the same in scope as they are in Kubuntu, but the ink level monitoring, and advanced stuff is done by the manufacturer's software. Last I looked, at least. (It has been a while).

So, if I think I have your question correctly understood, no there is no native KDE or Kubuntu or Gnome or Unity software that does what the hplip stuff does, so you have to use hplip-gui.

[RLynwood]

What most distros provide is a basic printer config tool that has zero brand-specific monitoring tools, used for setting up various printer config options and selecting drivers if the underlying cups print system does not automagically find and set that up for you. Kubuntu has its own tool, but KDE has one as well, as does Unity and Gnome and other desktops and distros. Manufacturers are the ones that have to create these, or provide information on how to interface with their products. I believe in Windows, the OS's printer tools there are much the same in scope as they are in Kubuntu, but the ink level monitoring, and advanced stuff is done by the manufacturer's software. Last I looked, at least. (It has been a while).

Right. I thought most of that but didn't know and am glad for the explanation of some of it. So, the Device Manager is written by HP for and made available to foss via the hplipopensource site, which they take no responsibility/liability for.
"Kubuntu has its own tool, but KDE has one as well, ..." Which one do I see when I click System settings/Printers? I assume it's (K)ubuntu's, unless Kubuntu uses a (modified?) version of KDE's. The one I see is so basic that it contains virtually no configurability at all. In effect, it says, yep, you've got this particular printer, and you can use it. Further, if I had used Kubuntu's printer-detection-and-setup software to run the printer, how would I have gotten the Device Manager to be displayed? Would it be readily available, or would I have to right-click the printer icon, then click Properties to get it? (I've written this same question in a different form below.)

hplip from HP, ands the HP specific software you can install via Muon are the exact same thing (other than version numbering)
The device manager I think you are referring to is specific to HP devices - hplip-gui as found in Muon is the portion that has the HP device manager in debian/ubuntu based distros.

I'm sure you're right. When I compared the package names in HP's hplipopensource installation with those listed in Muon's Package Manager, they appeared to be identical. But, the Muon pkg mgr showed all of the hplipopensource's software as not being installed, including the basic package, which, I think, contains the device manager. I don't understand that. That's why I spoke of them as being different. Maybe, most likely, I just don't know enough to tell what has been installed by what. Yes, the Device Manager (that's its name) definitely is specific to the HP software. As I think you said above, HP is the only printer mfgrer that makes its utility suite available as foss (or at least a foss version of it).

"I believe in Windows, the OS's printer tools there are much the same in scope as they are in Kubuntu, but the ink level monitoring, and advanced stuff is done by the manufacturer's software."
That's nearly my understanding, except that I thought MS provided virtually NO peripheral software, that the printer's (in this case) manufactuerer provides the driver and all utility software for separate installation (via CD/DVD). "Linux's" having at least the drivers built into the kernel and the detection-installation software built into the distro. is one of the great advantages of it over Windows.

So, if I think I have your question correctly understood, no there is no native KDE or Kubuntu or Gnome or Unity software that does what the hplip stuff does, so you have to use hplip-gui.

That's fine. My question is, when I use Kubuntu's device-detection-&-installation tool to connect and run my HP printer, how and where in the process do I get the Device Manager--that's where all the configurability is provided and the ink-level is displayed--to be installed and be readily accessible? And, is there a setting that let's me put an icon in the system tray, as HP's installation protocol (via its hplipopensource site) puts into the tray? It's clearly an HP proprietary icon, and right clicking it gives context menu entries for invoking the Device Manager, its Settings dialog, and gives print-job status. That's very convenient. Can I do that with Kubuntu's printer-detection-&-installation version of the hplip software?

Separately, I now want to completely remove what the hplipopensource protocol has installed and use Kubuntu's detection-installation utility to detect and install my printer, but I see absolutely no removal protocol on the hplipopensource site. I guess I'll have to ask about the in the--I can't think of its name right now--site.

[Qqmike]

I'm gonna let claydoh carry the ball here. Just a personal "story": As you know, I used only the Kubuntu-Muon versions of all this printer stuff. That proprietary HP logo-icon shows right up in my system tray, no issues. I rt-click it and get a useful context menu including Device Manager.

how and where in the process do I get the Device Manager--

and that's what makes me feel I don't get what we are talking about:

hplip-gui
(as I, and now claydoh, have tried to make clear--I stated it several times now; and claydoh explained it more technically, more precisely)

[RLynwood]

At this point, I don't recall exactly what all you've said, but I believe that you've said that the Device Manager was available and how to get it. But I think you mentioned installing it via command line, invoking hplip-gui. But gui just means graphical user interface, a graphical display; it doesn't imply a complete software suite, as the Device Manager, although I'm pretty sure that you said that HP's Device Manager was included in the gui; I just didn't know how/where. And you did not say that using the hplip-gui puts that icon in the system tray or at least allows one to. That's the exact answer to what I've asked about four times now.

Now that I know that, I'd like to completely uninstall all the printer software I've installed and reinstall it using Kubuntu's/Muon's means. But, as I said above, I can't find any uninstallation protocol on the hplipopensource site. Launchpad is the site I wanted to mention above that I guess I'll have to go to to learn how to do that.

[claydoh]

Hmmm a quick googling found an answer. Assuming you installed the software using the .run package they provide, there is a command line utility that they include to do this (alas, not clearly documented anywhere)

run the command:

sudo hp-uninstall

This will uninstall it.


The printer config in System Settings is not really very bare




You just cannot get ink levels in it.

[RLynwood]

Thanks for the work. Your snapshot shows more information than I had with Kubuntu's System Settings/Printers display, but not as much as HP's Device Manager provides. I really do want those ink level displays (right now the color one is missing) and the rest of the Device Manager's info/controls. So, I guess I need to stay with the hplip-installed version, unless Qqmike can provide a snapshot of his system showing the ink levels and system-tray icon.

[Qqmike]

With the standard Muon-provided hplip + hplip-gui, I have ink levels (which some/many people will tell you are notoriously wrong much of the time, or so very approximate as to not be useful for planning). You want to plan for ink?, you keep extra cartridges on hand. And, the official HP-logo icon is, I assure you, in my happy tray. I shall not tell a lie. Device Manager's controls have always been more than adequate for my printers (all HP brand). The way to do this is to install something--anything--then try it and test it for a week; if it works, keep it; if it doesn't work, try the other alternative. If you have an idiopathic, specific printer issue, well, that then becomes yet another and a separate problem to solve.

[vinnywright]

this is an old screenshot ,,,,,I do not have an HP printer any more ,,,,,,,,but this is the hplip-gui tool that you can install with your package manager (muon) ,,,,you should always look to the package manager first for software for kubuntu ,,,,,,then to external sites if not their .



VINNY

[Qqmike]

Thanks Vinny ;-)
Vinny's HP-logo tray icon is identical to mine.

[RLynwood]

I chuckled at some of your comments. Thanks for all the reassurance.
As for installing and trying it, I've done that with the hplipopensource-provided software with no problem on a couple of computers and even successfully used the scanning function in preparing the rebate information for the components for the new computer (now using), but the scanning function did not work in the Kubuntu installation recently. No doubt I'll get that going eventually. I haven't been using the hplip software long enough to see how well the ink-level graphs work; we'll see. I'm sorry to hear of their poor performance reputation.

You people have been wonderful. I really appreciate all your attention and help. Thanks again.

[Qqmike]

Ink levels, I wouldn't stamp it as "poor performance," but as sometimes unreliable. It may say you've got 15% or 20% left (by the graph), yet the next page prints almost white. Not always, not with every machine, but it happens. Like I say, Wal-Mart (or on-line sales), stock up on ink. Better yet, try not to print hard copies! Just kidding. But it is expensive.

[RLynwood]

It sure is expensive, and I don't normally print. In fact, when I got my two cartridges recently, I asked the vendor (of remanufactured cartridges) how long they were supposed to last. He said the ink itself should last about five years, but I had to keep the jets primed by printing something, however minor, about once a week. So far, I haven't had to, as I've had small printings about that often. Still, if I haven't had any printing to do for a while, I'll print a skeleton Gmail, which prints a minimum of color and black. But I have been concerned about the ink-level graphs because they make it look like I'm running out of ink awfully quickly. I'll have to have them checked to compare their actual fill level with the graphs.