Linux isn't "free" Windoze

[The Liquidator]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

Didn't get very far I'm afraid.

The VMware converter software installation proceeded fine in windows - configuring it was another matter.

The wheel fell off at the point of telling the converter where to locate the virtual machine. Whilst it noted the disks earlier in the process by the time it came to the location they had to all intents and purposes disappeared!

From the Linux end, I tried to run the script in the installation file and got the following error:

"Warning: Unable to find VMware Player's main database /etc/vmware/locations."

It's not clear which needs to be set up first - any thoughts on this one?

Thanks

ian

[Fintan]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

I'll start and the end first:

if you downloaded the latest vmware player from the site you should unpack it to a folder of your choice. Open a teminal in that folder and run:

sudo ./vmware-install.pl

and accept the defaults.

vmware-player is independent of an existing / non-existing guest machine so it doesn't matter which you do first.

Now for converter.
It has been a while but this is the way I did it:
-I made a /Vmware folder on my /Data partition (fat32)
-I then followed the steps on page two from the how-to:
http://www.howtoforge.com/vmware_con...ndows_linux_p2
-I then pointed converter to the folder I had made previously.
-see this:
http://www.howtoforge.com/vmware_con...ndows_linux_p3
-I choose "allow to grow" in the file alocation menu and "NAT" in the network menu. (NIC doesn't want to work with samba)
-no customizatiom
-convert

One more thing.
I made a second and third folder in my /Data/Vmware folder called test and final respectively. and then copied the the converted xp over to the /test.
This is the version I cleaned up completely (not needed apps, firewall, etc)

I the copied that over to /final

This is the version I use with vmware-player to that version.

Sounds like overkill but that way I always have a backup of xp which can be "reinstalled" at will or used as another copy for testing ad stupidum

I hope this helps.

[The Liquidator]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

Thanks, I think I just got part way there but I got this error message during the install of vmware player and as a result the install program aborted

"Using compiler "/usr/bin/gcc". Use environment variable CC to override.

Your kernel was built with "gcc" version "4.2.3", while you are trying to use
"/usr/bin/gcc" version "4.2.4". This configuration is not recommended and
VMware Player may crash if you'll continue. Please try to use exactly same
compiler as one used for building your kernel. Do you want to go with compiler
"/usr/bin/gcc" version "4.2.4" anyway? [no]

For more information on how to troubleshoot module-related problems, please
visit our Web site at "http://www.vmware.com/download/modules/modules.html" and
"http://www.vmware.com/support/refere...es_linux.html".

Execution aborted."

Any recommendations on where I should go next with this?

Also can you clarify something for me - the Vmware converter package seems to suggest (and I think you agree) that the file to which you refer as the vmware folder is on a separate partition to the c: drive. That correct? In that case I would probably put mine on sda2 (the main folder of which is, coincidentally, date). However, I am wondering how big this folder is likely to have to be. Sda2 currently has 4Gb free whereas sda1 already takes up 12gb. If the folder is going to need to be as big as the source file i.e I'll effectively have 2 full-blown windows installations then I'm unlikely to have enough disk space, or am I missing something?

Thanks for your help.

[Runaway1956]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

Well, there are a million or more posts/blogs/articles on the internet, about why more people drive Windows than drive *nix.

And, driving is the key.

Driving a standard shift car or truck is so simple, a monkey can be trained to do it. A smart monkey, to be sure, but a monkey.

Driving an automatic shift car or truck is so simple, the monkey won´t feel challenged enough to try.

Alright, maybe I made that up.

Just the same, driving Windows is like driving your automatic, and racing *nix is like driving a high powered sports car, that you built yourself, complete with an oversized clutch, hurst shifter, competition rearends........ you get the idea.

The guy who has never SEEN a clutch, let alone used one, won´t appreciate your high performance sports car. He might get in, and admire the paint and upholstery, but he can´t get it out of it´s parking spot.

I know what makes cars work, I know what makes computers work. I´m just that kind of guy.

[Fintan]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

"Using compiler "/usr/bin/gcc". Use environment variable CC to override..............

I have never seen that

What are you installing this on?

How are you installing?

Did you do any kernel compiling?



As for space. Well my virgin (cleaned) virgin has 6gig and the final has something like 10gig but I also have a lot of adobe stuff installed.
So, yes you will probably run out of space.

How much space to you have on your HD?
Can you get an external / 2nd HD?

Yes, it should be on a separate (from c) partition. since you are converting C it can't copy the conversion to there as well.

Sorry I can't be of more help at the moment

[The Liquidator]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

Thanks for reply.

Dell laptop with centrino processor, running 2.6.24.21 generic (with 20 for backup). No user modifications.

The vmplayer did appear to go through the whole install routine. I ran the script to which you referred in the terminal as sudo. I must confess my perception of that problem was it was simply a case of the software saying to me "I'm too new for you". Being an impatient sort of chap I always go for the newest version of software and I note that the version I have tried installing is dated 26 August 2008 which no doubt postdates my kernel by some margin.

I would have downloaded an earlier version (which I strongly suspect would work) but wanted to clarify the space issue. My machine has a (sold as 60GB but in reality closer to 56Gb it would seem) hdd, which seemed decent enough when I got it, committed as follows:

Windows c:\ drive NTFS 15Gb
FAT32 data drive 10Gb. I have 4 gb free on this drive, could free up maybe 1Gb by archiving downlaoded programs but 4gb of this is the my documents folder which houses my mail/music/photos etc and is located there so I can access the data whichever OS I am running.
The rest is allocated to my home and root partitions (15 Gb each) Swap 1GB

In addition I do have a second hard drive, a 500 Gb USB drive that I use for backups and video staorage.

Can I take it that going the virtualisation route will mean that I will effectively have 2 copies of Windows installed? If that's the case I think I will have some uninstalling to do first! The space issue may also give me an answer as to why the converter didn't offer me anywhere to install the converted copy - there was nowhere big enough to house it!

[Fintan]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

In addition I do have a second hard drive, a 500 Gb USB drive that I use for backups and video staorage.

Well that should solve the space problem nicely If you can access that from linux you will have no problem.

If that's the case I think I will have some uninstalling to do first!

I would do the uninstalling on the cenoverted copy, just in case.
I resisted getting rid of my HD install when I was really sure I would never use it again.

The latest version of vmware-player should have no problem with that / those kernel(s).

Are you accepting the default questions when they are asked by ./vmware-install.pl?

[The Liquidator]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

On the space side of things I was thinking about uninstalling those things that become duplicated as a result of dual-booting e.g OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc. Then deleting the downloaded windows apps that I will no longer use from the data drive (or archiving them onto the USB drive) and then once both are cleaned up resizing them to make the d drive big enough. There are 1 or 2 major steps in there that would be needed by that game-plan before I've even got things up and running.

Am I reading into your latest post that you are suggesting setting up the VMWare folder on the USB drive? If so presumably that will involve a performance hit but it would be a non-destructive way of testing to see if it works for me? At which point when I am entirely happy with the way it works it would be possible to replace the HD install with the virtual one ?

I am confused by what happened with the install. I will as an experiment download the second newest version and try that although I note you say it should be backward-compatible.

Thanks for your help. I'm wondering if our recent posts ought to (and can be) moved to a different thread as I appear to have gone rather OT.

Ian

[Fintan]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

I'm wondering if our recent posts ought to (and can be) moved to a different thread as I appear to have gone rather OT.

I had the same thoughts.

make a new thread with the title something like:

vmware installation issue

That will surely attract others (more knowledgeable than me) that know vmware.

[The Liquidator]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

I'll start a new thread in the software section with a link to this one

It seems to be a very widespread issue, actually.

Just to finish, assuming I can get the VMware running, and I migrate from quicken 2002 Standard , my play with exporting QIF files shows Gnucash to be a winner over kmymoney2 by a considerable margin - it imports all the transactions which Kmymoney doesn't seem to. However, my data goes back to 1999 and was originally MS Money and IIRC migrating it to Quicken was not exactly a walk in the park either. Now, given that Kmymoney (which does look more user-friendly) can import Gnucash files - there's a thought!

Ian

[blackbelt_jones]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

Linux has a powerful Command Line Interface. Windows has a command line, but it doesn't really have the applications or the culture.

The Command Line is sadly misunderstood. People think of the command line as difficult and archaic, but making it a part of the desktop makes it a lot easier to learn, and believe me when I tell you it's going to save you a lot of time. These days, you don't really need it, let me repeat , it saves you a lot of time. I'm talking thousands of hours over a computing lifetime.

Because it's a part of the desktop, you don't have to learn it all at once. You don't really have to learn it at all, but I seriously doubt that you'll be able to see why people love Linux without it.

[Troberg]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

When I first started using Linux a few years ago, I too, was handicapped by the problem of wanting it to work like Windows. After a couple of months of frustration, I realized that I needed a new mindset. You have to approach the transition as if you were getting the first computer you ever owned and learning how to use it. If you want your computer to do something, figure out how to make it do it. Don't start the process by thinking "in Windows I would....". I think that those of us who began our computing prior to Windows may have some advantage here, because we experienced making a computer work without all the fancy Windows stuff. Working from the old DOS command line to get things done was a good learning experience. Most computer users these days have only experienced Windows before coming to Linux.

In my experience, the less experienced a user is, the easier the switch to Linux is, simply because they have not yet formed that mindset. They don't think about the details of what they do, they don't care about which browser they use or if it's a K menu instead of a Start menu or if it's called OpenOffice.org instead of Microsoft Office. They don't understand or notice the details, so they just adapt. Heck, my mother didn't even notice any major difference between XP and Vista.

The experienced power users, on the other hand, gets annoyed when the action occurs when the mouse button is pressed in one OS and when it's released in the other. Such minor annoyances grow on them, and gets blown out of proportions. They feel a bit threatened, as they fear that all their experience will be worthless. Of course, the truth is that if they would just give it a week or so, they would be up to speed and then some, but those minor annoyances block them mentally.

[Fintan]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

Just a bit of good fun:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/soft...9294810,00.htm

[Jonas]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

When I first started using Linux a few years ago, I too, was handicapped by the problem of wanting it to work like Windows. After a couple of months of frustration, I realized that I needed a new mindset. You have to approach the transition as if you were getting the first computer you ever owned and learning how to use it. If you want your computer to do something, figure out how to make it do it. Don't start the process by thinking "in Windows I would....". I think that those of us who began our computing prior to Windows may have some advantage here, because we experienced making a computer work without all the fancy Windows stuff. Working from the old DOS command line to get things done was a good learning experience. Most computer users these days have only experienced Windows before coming to Linux.

In my experience, the less experienced a user is, the easier the switch to Linux is, simply because they have not yet formed that mindset. They don't think about the details of what they do, they don't care about which browser they use or if it's a K menu instead of a Start menu or if it's called OpenOffice.org instead of Microsoft Office. They don't understand or notice the details, so they just adapt. Heck, my mother didn't even notice any major difference between XP and Vista.

The experienced power users, on the other hand, gets annoyed when the action occurs when the mouse button is pressed in one OS and when it's released in the other. Such minor annoyances grow on them, and gets blown out of proportions. They feel a bit threatened, as they fear that all their experience will be worthless. Of course, the truth is that if they would just give it a week or so, they would be up to speed and then some, but those minor annoyances block them mentally.

I couldn't agree with you more. But (there's always a but ) my sister, on the other hand, study at the Uni at the moment and they demand that some reports are written with a MS Office template. I've told her that she should either send me the templates to remake them for OpenOffice or demand that they give her templates for OpenOffice. She's not that bothered and think that it's ok to pay the ~50$ student price for MS Office.

I know OO works in windows too but it's about all the general "M$-just-works-BS", I remember when people complained about Firefox ~7 years ago, "it doesn't work with my fav-sites" etc now FF is as mainstream as it gets, and the only thing that make people use iE is that "it's just there".
I heard a funny comment at work some weeks ago, there was this guy who were set to help some less experienced user connect to the net for a centralised company review (or something, cant remember) and he said "double click on the internet logo" and pointed at iE icon .. made me crack up ... M$ owns internet ?

I'm relieved that I don't run windows any more (and slightly annoyed that I still have a partition with Windows still). I was, when I tried Ubuntu 8.04 soooo frustrated at some things, things that today feel really silly, yet then it made my whole experience with "Linux" a pain in the a**.

To get back to what Troberg said, and I agree, experience and pride do have impact on 'user vs OS'
but mostly it's not the user who have a mindset but the environment and surroundings. The simple thing as the annoyance of not being able to (instantly) see that funny clip/pic on youtube that your friends laugh about and such. I've come to the conclusion that if it don't work for me with Linux - it's not funny (until it do work) :P

Anyway to sum it up - I'm glad it's not windows, and I'm quite certain that my sister will be too, as soon as she make the transition ... cause I'm quite positive she will

[Troberg]

Re: Linux isn't "free" Windoze

As for school policies, we solved it like this back when I went to university (just before the dinosaurs went extinct):

Demand that the school either adopt a technology neutral stance or that they provide the technology to the students free of charge. Worked like a charm, they don't want the costs and will fold, I sailed straight through university math on my trusty HP48.