Originally posted by NoWorries
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Originally posted by kubicle View PostAnd you have tried unmuting with kmix? Just tested it and it seems to work fine on my end (but I'm still not on 5.17.90, so it's possible the results are different)
So all is well now.
BTW, this morning I have been updated to 5.18.0 and the most significant change was the colour in the Login screen. All other features that I have encountered are the same, kazam doesn't record sound with an image, ie totally silent.
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Originally posted by kubicle View PostProbably this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=407397
Older bug, seems it is still not fixed
As a workaround, you should be able to unmute using kmix (install package 'kmix'...or using pavucontrol). It shoud work after that (even if you uninstall kmix after).
OK... now two speakers in the kicker.. and THAT WORKS to unmute them... Umm I guess there is some other Audio control thing in the kicker now Its been Kmix in the past until So whats the other speaker widget thing? Oh let me guess some crud from pusle(phewftt)audio...
Any way thats solved.. Thanks... Really would like to some traction that bug...
You mean the actual sound files, or the settings for changing the notification sounds for apps?
BUT still missing the spot where you can "test" audio devices and it play what I call the KDE sound to test that its working... from 18.04 see screen grab...
Another thing I noticed.. can't run systemsettings5 via XForwarded ssh session.. 18.04 just did it.. and got that screen grab.
Other programs from synaptic to kate to fireturdkeyox ran in a remote X SSH session fine... (thats one of my big things...I've just not went through to change all that, yet for XDMCP etc.. need to change to LightDM, lightdm-gtk-greeter, some setup to turn on... just not done it yet, YET. ) but XForwarded on SSH at least on systemsettings5 doesn't work.. it shows up on the LOCAL desktop.. no errors or anything in konsole, just popups on the local desktop.
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Originally posted by chimak111 View PostI've seen quite a few Ubuntu users install whatever is listed first in their software center thus ending up with a snap instead of a deb.
Discover, in Kubuntu 20.04, currently seems to default to the deb with a Sources button allowing the user to switch to a snap instead
I don't know what Ubuntu's Software Center does in 20.04, but Kubuntu 20.04 should see fewer complaints of users installing snaps when they didn't mean to (chromium-browser excepted!).
1) apt-get/dpgk -i via CLI for stuff I know the names or stuff I get from a DEB on a site ...
2) Synaptic - and then after I get a name I may opt to revert to sudo apt-get install just depends...
3) source - compile it, rarely
discover, muon etc. are never used... or anything like what ever those software center things are... those things need to go, go go away and take their snaps and flatpaks with them!
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Originally posted by NoWorries View PostYes I did install kmix and I was puzzled that I did not see it on my desktop. I only found things different when I went to the speaker symbol on the panel and found a change in the controls which allowed me to unmute the event sounds.
BTW, this morning I have been updated to 5.18.0 and the most significant change was the colour in the Login screen. All other features that I have encountered are the same, kazam doesn't record sound with an image, ie totally silent.Originally posted by rec9140 View PostOK.. sudo apt... kmix
OK... now two speakers in the kicker.. and THAT WORKS to unmute them... Umm I guess there is some other Audio control thing in the kicker now Its been Kmix in the past until So whats the other speaker widget thing? Oh let me guess some crud from pusle(phewftt)audio...
You can still mute/unmute and change the volume in the settings (even if you previously couldn't). Continues to work even after reboot.
Originally posted by NoWorries View PostOther programs from synaptic to kate to fireturdkeyox ran in a remote X SSH session fine... (thats one of my big things...I've just not went through to change all that, yet for XDMCP etc.. need to change to LightDM, lightdm-gtk-greeter, some setup to turn on... just not done it yet, YET. ) but XForwarded on SSH at least on systemsettings5 doesn't work.. it shows up on the LOCAL desktop.. no errors or anything in konsole, just popups on the local desktop.
Originally posted by rec9140 View PostThere are 2, ok 3 ways to install software
1) apt-get/dpgk -i via CLI for stuff I know the names or stuff I get from a DEB on a site ...
2) Synaptic - and then after I get a name I may opt to revert to sudo apt-get install just depends...
3) source - compile it, rarely
discover, muon etc. are never used... or anything like what ever those software center things are... those things need to go, go go away and take their snaps and flatpaks with them!Last edited by kubicle; Feb 07, 2020, 01:06 AM.
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When I installed the latest updates using the command line, I noticed Discover snap packages being installed. So I checked with Muon and found snap for Discover. This is show in the graphic below.
These packages are only 295.0 KiB and 23.0KiB. Compared with the deb files which are 1.7 MiB and 8.8 MiB. I have removed them and Discover seems to still work. I must confess that I very rarely use it and keep it for when Muon configurer software sources fails, I can restore it with Discover.
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Originally posted by NoWorries View PostWhen I installed the latest updates using the command line, I noticed Discover snap packages being installed. So I checked with Muon and found snap for Discover. This is show in the graphic below.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]8655[/ATTACH]
These packages are only 295.0 KiB and 23.0KiB. Compared with the deb files which are 1.7 MiB and 8.8 MiB. I have removed them and Discover seems to still work. I must confess that I very rarely use it and keep it for when Muon configurer software sources fails, I can restore it with Discover.
The 'plasma-discover-backend-snap' and 'plasma-discover-snap-backend' are not snap packages, they are the snap backend for discover so one can install snap packages with discover if one chooses to (they depend for obvious reasons on snapd, but are not snap packages themselves, and can be uninstalled without issues if one chooses to...you just can't install snaps with discover without the backend). The reason there are two of them is that the package name has changed from plasma-discover-snap-backend > plasma-discover-backend-snap (and the former is now a transitional package that depends on the latter for smooth upgrades). There are also similar packages for the flatpak-backend, which aren't flatpaks, but regular debs (https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?k...lasma-discover).
plasma-discover is also a regular deb in the focal repos.Last edited by kubicle; Feb 07, 2020, 04:38 AM.
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Thanks VERY MUCH for the clarification. This is important for those, like me, who do not want snap packages at this stage.
As you are probably aware, I tend to take risks. However, I only take those risks with Kubuntu sources and not those new ideas being promoted by Canonical.
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Well, there's always good oldCode:sudo apt autoremove --purge snapd
The next brick house on the left
Intel i7 11th Gen | 16GB | 1TB | KDE Plasma 5.27.11| Kubuntu 24.04 | 6.8.0-31-generic
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Originally posted by kubicle View Postkmix has it's own icon in the notification area, the other is the newer "plasma-pa" volume widget. And if I wasn't clear in my previous post, you only need to unmute once with kmix, you don't need to start it automatically at startup or even have it installed after that (So you don't need to have to volume icons in the notification area...of course you can also disable the plasma volume widget if you prefer kmix). Once you've unmuted once with kmix, it will continue to work even if you don't have kmix running or uninstall it.
You can still mute/unmute and change the volume in the settings (even if you previously couldn't). Continues to work even after reboot.
Originally posted by kubicle View PostThat suggests systemsettings5 doesn't respect the DISPLAY env variable for some mysterious reason, when I have some free time I'll see if I'm getting the same. EDIT: Ah yes, have to wait for Plasma 5.18 and/or Neon 20.04 to test that, works fine on Neon 18.04/Plasma 5.17.5.
Originally posted by kubicle View PostI am an "aptitude" guy (replaced synaptic for me a few years back), I don't use any GUI installers at all (or have any installed), just apt and aptitude (when I need to do more complex package management or browse packages).
Originally posted by kubicle View PostI also don't shy away from compiling stuff if I need to.
What rules... COMPLETE RECIPES on what is needed to compile their software!
Don't give the trite ./configure make sudo make install line..
Your README.TXT should include
sudo apt-get install libsuperduper-dev livsuperduper, etc. right on down the line to all dependencies...
Don't expect me to decode 1000 lines of make errors to figure out libs/dependencies needed.
Originally posted by kubicle View PostBut there are also valid use cases for contained package formats, they don't need to go away (except snaps, of course ), but should always be just options, not forced. I also think Discover is fine for new users, or users who don't like to work with cli (although I think everyone should ).
DEB is an OUTSTANDING package management system.. compared to RPM (spit! pffft! spit! blech!) I don't know that rates right up there with some other garbage.. snaps, systemurd, pulseaudio...2 of those have bled their cancer into distros... and I am not going willingly with the first.. I fought the other 2 and lost those battles. ALSA is a great thing and can do a lot.. unfortunately you have to have written it or being able to figure out its black magic to get it to do all that it can like plugins, loopback..
I have no intention of giving into the loss of DEB!
These things are appealing to new users in line with the application "stores" on certain phones... meh.. not the path to take in my view... I think DEB via synaptic can offer all that is needed... Just new users are not willing to get into learning the steps... Like the sounds setup.. I don't mind digging through some menus.. but geez people.. that stuff is not very intuitive to me where its at now... its a least 2 layers too deep.Last edited by Snowhog; Feb 11, 2020, 07:33 AM.
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Originally posted by rec9140 View PostI don't have an issue with compiling IF IF YOU DEVELOPERS FOLLOW THE RULES. 9/10 they do not.
What rules... COMPLETE RECIPES on what is needed to compile their software!
Don't give the trite ./configure make sudo make install line..
Your README.TXT should include
sudo apt-get install libsuperduper-dev livsuperduper, etc. right on down the line to all dependencies...
Building stuff takes some extra work, that's why we have distributions and binary packages. If you build stuff that is available in the repos, there are apt commands to get the build dependencies quite easily (https://www.guyrutenberg.com/2017/09...get-build-dep/ and https://askubuntu.com/questions/2137...s-of-a-package). Unfortunately that only works for sources in the repos (which you usually don't need to compile, but it can help if you're compiling a newer version that is available in the repos).
Originally posted by rec9140 View PostDon't expect me to decode 1000 lines of make errors to figure out libs/dependencies needed.
---
This is actually one of the problems contained package delivery offers one solution to. A developer can make an appimage (or flatpak) available for the freshest version of their software (which should work as is in any distro), and distributions can package things in their own package formats/repos based on their own update/release schedule. Best of both worlds, kind of. One can install binary packages from the repos (or build them if they so choose), and if you really need a version that is newer or software that hasn't been packaged yet by your distribution, you can get a contained package without much hassle (that is often associated with building from source).Last edited by kubicle; Feb 10, 2020, 03:24 AM.
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Originally posted by kubicle View PostThat is... source).
While I see you perspective and point. No. if I am the developer I KNOW WHAT libs were needed to create my superduper software...
Telling some one to
download source
untar
cd to dir
./configure, make, sudo make install
and the they get 1000's of lines of errors because this lib, that lib, some other lib, even more lib is not there...
Thats my job as a user to figure out this Really ? Thats a USER PROBLEM? Thats rich.. really rich... and thats my public snowflake version.
Thats just pointless... the DEVELOPER KNEW THIS TO START. Advise the users.. You developed this you KNOW/KNEW you installed libsuper-dev and libsuper on your distro.. That is not that hard to cross between Debian/Ubuntu land and lesser package systems like RPM etc..
And the work you are saying this is for developer.. well thats part of developing software.
I don't see this as being a leg for snaps etc. to be the route forward over DEB...
There is no point in going further this is way off Focal development...and as I started off with ... we are not in agreement and never will be. And this site is not welcoming to vociferous discussions any way.
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Originally posted by rec9140 View Postif I am the developer I KNOW WHAT libs were needed to create my superduper software...
You developed this you KNOW/KNEW you installed libsuper-dev and libsuper on your distro.. That is not that hard to cross between Debian/Ubuntu land and lesser package systems like RPM etc..
There is no reason for agitation, I apologize if I come across as confrontational (not my intention), I'm just telling you how things are. You don't have to agree, I'm fine with that. And you are of course just as free to voice your opinions, but developers don't owe you anything (or have to do any of the work for you, even if you think they should, unless you are paying them to do it)...you don't want to put an effort into building stuff, use the binary packages provided by your distro.
Also, software sources aren't normally directed at regular users (users that build from source are a very small minority), but at other developers and software distributors (who usually know very well what is needed in their distro). All extra time spent on doing things that will only offer any real benefits to very few, is always time away from doing things that will benefit basically everyone, like improving features, fixing bugs etc. Telling them what you think they should do does not magically increase the resources they have available for development.Last edited by kubicle; Feb 11, 2020, 08:27 AM.
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Originally posted by rec9140 View PostAnd this site is not welcoming to vociferous discussions any way.vo·cif·er·ous
/vōˈsifərəs/
adjective
(especially of a person or speech) vehement or clamorous.
"he was a vociferous opponent of the takeover"
expressing feelings or opinions in a very loud or forceful wayWindows no longer obstructs my view.
Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes
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Originally posted by Snowhog View Post"You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."
"You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all the time and those are pretty good odds." - Shady Deal at Sunny Acres
I can definitely see both sides to this (and I have developed software as well, although some people would probably call it lazy developing as it is with the Electron framework and not plain jane C++ or similar). And there is for sure a difference in the naming schema of packages between distros (one package that I get for mapping my drives on ubuntu its "x"-common and on say Arch it's "x"-utils.
As to using distro repos if don't want to build from source, some software is only available with building (unless they have say github setup to compile everything and have it under releases section of the repo), no other option. No PPAs, no AURs, nothing. That will take out the "normies", if it is only available via building from source. That could also take out a pool of users that could help with bringing in bug reports and/or feature requests as well.
It's not quite as black and white as lot of people would like to think.
Originally posted by kubicle View PostAll extra time spent on doing things that will only offer any real benefits to very few, is always time away from doing things that will benefit basically everyone, like improving features, fixing bugs etc.
Now, for the devs that just release a project in the hopes that it helps others, but it was mainly done due to a need that the devs themselves had and that's it, it won't matter one way or the other I would imagine. And that's fine. It is what it is. It all depends on what the end goals are for the project. Those projects that fit into this later category are probably not going to be ones that are going to see a wide adoption as it is. And that's fine, I'm not trying to say that it isn't.Lenovo Thinkstation: Xeon E5 CPU 32GB ECC Ram KDE Neon
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