Sorry,
I know that I am nobody and shouldn't be adding again to a discussion that has already happened and it has been decided... but I beg you to reconsider having Plasma 6 in Kubuntu 24.04 LTS, because I think it is a huge mistake from your side no to have it the way it has been decided.
Here you have some points:
a) KDE 5.27 is not THAT stable. I have Kubuntu 23.10 running in my system and it periodically has errors and things that die and ask me if I want to report them. And that is when using X11. In Wayland, if I am not mistaken, it is even worse. In fact, I would argue that the fallacy is thinking that 5.27 builds on the stability of 5.26 that builds on the stability of 5.25 and so forth. IT DOESN'T WORK THIS WAY! Some versions in the 5th stack are stability driven versions and some other push the boundaries. So you shouldn't decide which version to use BECAUSE of the number, but BECAUSE of the ability to maintain and improve on that version for two years.
In fact, the case is specially painfull in last iterations of Plasma5, as Wayland introduction has been harder to work with and only in 5.27 wayland experience started to be "not bad". Even with this, 6.0 on wayland may be much more stable and nicer that in 5.27. Not just newer, but more stable, because, at least in 5.25 and 5.26 there were lots of show stoppers.
b) Kubuntu is not Ubuntu. I understand that Ubuntu must make sure that is rock solid being LTS, but that is for its main GUI, which happen to be Gnome's. Nobody is installing Kubuntu in big numbers on servers or so, they install Ubuntu. Canonical responds for Ubuntu.
c) It has been reported that Plasma 6 is VERY stable. So, here again, if KDE 5.27 is not that stable and Plasma 6 is very stable... where is the trade off?
d) Plasma 6 has been MOSTLY TESTED in KDE neon, so over Ubuntu stack. That means that if there is a distro where you can expect Plasma 6 to be stable, that is going to be Ubuntu!!!
e) Once Ubuntu 24.04 is released, we can expect KDE Neon is going to jump to Ubuntu 24.04 as the basis to develop upon. So anything that do not work is fastly going to be solve AGAINST UBUNTU STACK FIRST!
f) There is not too much to be done to make KDE 5.27 run over Ubuntu 24.04, as it already works over 23.10. You could make it the other way around, let people have a PPA with kde5 and most of the work would already be done.
g) You have a month and a half to stabilize things if needed. In fact, if you need more time, we all can wait.
h) It is a well known fact that, if you need Ubuntu/Kubuntu for a critical environment, you shouldn't jump into the wagon of 24.04, BUT into 24.04.01 that will be released sometime in june/july. That gives you still a couple of months more to stabilize whatever needs to be stabilized.
i) IT IS A FALACY that you can wait till 24.10 and then have Kubuntu running Plasma 6. The way Ubuntu works, let the users no option to install interim releases easily. If you jump to 24.10 THEN YOU ARE FORCED to follow that path until 26.04. No matter if a version is stable or not. You could argue... wait until 24.10 if we could be certain that there would be a clear path from 22.10 to 26.04. But if you jump to 22.01, then you are forced to make the jump every 6 months, and if one of the releases is more experimental that others... then you are going to live with that release for at least 6 months, because the livespan of an interim release is 9 months. So jumping to 24.10 means that you will need 25.04 and 25.10 to be stable enough. And that, we don't know.
j) PPA for Plasma6 is a very bad solution. Having to install 900 packages belonging to Plasma5 in order to be able to install other 900 packages of Plasma6... makes no sense at all.
k) Every security flag that appear in Plasma6/QT6/Wayland will have to be ported to Plasma5/QT5/X11. You'll be ALONE in this endeavour, as every distro but Ubuntu will have gone the correct way.That means some errors and security problems will not be backported. And it means that some others, while backported, will break things in Plasma5/QT5/X11 so stability, in the long run, will be worse instead of better. Again, no trade off.
l) NVIDIA drivers, wayland, and apps in general will take profit of what QT6 and Wayland has to offer. That will break things in elder Kubuntu Plasma5/QT5/X11 stack.
m) NVIDIA drivers and STEAM sooner or later will work better in Wayland that in X11. Ubuntu can control what people install in their systems, but we usually install NVIDIA drivers and Steam by ourselves.
Now, is there an alternative?
Sure it is!
You simply have to tweak the KUbuntu installer so, when you install, you are asked if you want to install Plasma5 or Plasma6. That easy! Let people with edge cases install Plasma5 if they want to (it is already working in 23.10 so it shouldn't be a big problem) and let people install Plasma6 if we want to. Put some recommended or experimental flags if you want to.
And then, once you realize that 95% of Kubuntu users install Plasma 6, you can decide where to put your efforts into, maintaining an old code or building on the new one.
I know that I am nobody and shouldn't be adding again to a discussion that has already happened and it has been decided... but I beg you to reconsider having Plasma 6 in Kubuntu 24.04 LTS, because I think it is a huge mistake from your side no to have it the way it has been decided.
Here you have some points:
a) KDE 5.27 is not THAT stable. I have Kubuntu 23.10 running in my system and it periodically has errors and things that die and ask me if I want to report them. And that is when using X11. In Wayland, if I am not mistaken, it is even worse. In fact, I would argue that the fallacy is thinking that 5.27 builds on the stability of 5.26 that builds on the stability of 5.25 and so forth. IT DOESN'T WORK THIS WAY! Some versions in the 5th stack are stability driven versions and some other push the boundaries. So you shouldn't decide which version to use BECAUSE of the number, but BECAUSE of the ability to maintain and improve on that version for two years.
In fact, the case is specially painfull in last iterations of Plasma5, as Wayland introduction has been harder to work with and only in 5.27 wayland experience started to be "not bad". Even with this, 6.0 on wayland may be much more stable and nicer that in 5.27. Not just newer, but more stable, because, at least in 5.25 and 5.26 there were lots of show stoppers.
b) Kubuntu is not Ubuntu. I understand that Ubuntu must make sure that is rock solid being LTS, but that is for its main GUI, which happen to be Gnome's. Nobody is installing Kubuntu in big numbers on servers or so, they install Ubuntu. Canonical responds for Ubuntu.
c) It has been reported that Plasma 6 is VERY stable. So, here again, if KDE 5.27 is not that stable and Plasma 6 is very stable... where is the trade off?
d) Plasma 6 has been MOSTLY TESTED in KDE neon, so over Ubuntu stack. That means that if there is a distro where you can expect Plasma 6 to be stable, that is going to be Ubuntu!!!
e) Once Ubuntu 24.04 is released, we can expect KDE Neon is going to jump to Ubuntu 24.04 as the basis to develop upon. So anything that do not work is fastly going to be solve AGAINST UBUNTU STACK FIRST!
f) There is not too much to be done to make KDE 5.27 run over Ubuntu 24.04, as it already works over 23.10. You could make it the other way around, let people have a PPA with kde5 and most of the work would already be done.
g) You have a month and a half to stabilize things if needed. In fact, if you need more time, we all can wait.
h) It is a well known fact that, if you need Ubuntu/Kubuntu for a critical environment, you shouldn't jump into the wagon of 24.04, BUT into 24.04.01 that will be released sometime in june/july. That gives you still a couple of months more to stabilize whatever needs to be stabilized.
i) IT IS A FALACY that you can wait till 24.10 and then have Kubuntu running Plasma 6. The way Ubuntu works, let the users no option to install interim releases easily. If you jump to 24.10 THEN YOU ARE FORCED to follow that path until 26.04. No matter if a version is stable or not. You could argue... wait until 24.10 if we could be certain that there would be a clear path from 22.10 to 26.04. But if you jump to 22.01, then you are forced to make the jump every 6 months, and if one of the releases is more experimental that others... then you are going to live with that release for at least 6 months, because the livespan of an interim release is 9 months. So jumping to 24.10 means that you will need 25.04 and 25.10 to be stable enough. And that, we don't know.
j) PPA for Plasma6 is a very bad solution. Having to install 900 packages belonging to Plasma5 in order to be able to install other 900 packages of Plasma6... makes no sense at all.
k) Every security flag that appear in Plasma6/QT6/Wayland will have to be ported to Plasma5/QT5/X11. You'll be ALONE in this endeavour, as every distro but Ubuntu will have gone the correct way.That means some errors and security problems will not be backported. And it means that some others, while backported, will break things in Plasma5/QT5/X11 so stability, in the long run, will be worse instead of better. Again, no trade off.
l) NVIDIA drivers, wayland, and apps in general will take profit of what QT6 and Wayland has to offer. That will break things in elder Kubuntu Plasma5/QT5/X11 stack.
m) NVIDIA drivers and STEAM sooner or later will work better in Wayland that in X11. Ubuntu can control what people install in their systems, but we usually install NVIDIA drivers and Steam by ourselves.
Now, is there an alternative?
Sure it is!
You simply have to tweak the KUbuntu installer so, when you install, you are asked if you want to install Plasma5 or Plasma6. That easy! Let people with edge cases install Plasma5 if they want to (it is already working in 23.10 so it shouldn't be a big problem) and let people install Plasma6 if we want to. Put some recommended or experimental flags if you want to.
And then, once you realize that 95% of Kubuntu users install Plasma 6, you can decide where to put your efforts into, maintaining an old code or building on the new one.
Comment