Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

[Fenyx]

Just a simple question that has been lingering in my head for quite a while. I'm not bashing anyone. I'm not implying any bias. I'm just really curious as to how things are developed "behind the scenes", specially with regards to Kubuntu. So here it goes:

- Firefox 1.5.0.3, the Firefox version shipped with Ubuntu Dapper, is found in Dapper main.
- Amarok 1.3.9, the version shipped with Kubuntu Dapper, is also found in Dapper main.
- KDE 3.5.2, the release shipped with Kubuntu Dapper, is also found in Dapper main.

- When Firefox 1.5.0.4 and 1.5.0.5 came out, the upgrades were made available through dapper-security main
- When Amarok 1.4 and 1.4.1 were released, a special repository had to be created and added in order to upgrade.
- When KDE 3.5.3 and, just recently, KDE 3.5.4 were released, a special repository also had to be created and added.

Now, by definition, packages in Main are those that are fully supported by Ubuntu, and would come with security updates. Now, it could be argued that the Amarok releases are not strictly security related updates, but KDE's releases are.

Now my question really is: Why do upgrades in Kubuntu have to be put in a special repository? What's the development/upgrade process in Kubuntu?

Just really interested to know. Hope I haven't offended anyone with the post.

[sky]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

Hi,

It's not really shocking me this kind of packaging...
kde upgrades are not really security fixes as usually they are adding fonctionnalities...

I think ubuntu cycle of dev is to keep of stable versions of software in the main repos and add few one for people who can't wait for new release of ubuntu to get the latest software (little bit like me as I'm usually always using a beta version of ubuntu )
But I know some people who are upgrading few weeks after exit of last stable version and stay on it with only security updates but no kde or amarok one...

One more thing, amarok is not really a security update between 1.3.9 and 1.4 as they change the engine of collection, so old collections were not compatible with new version of software (if I remember well)

Cheers
PS : Don't be afraid, you didn't hurt me at least It's an interesting question

[claydoh]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

No offence was seen by me

Here goes (from a quick conversation with a Kubuntu developer on irc) :
(K)Ubuntu 's release process involves freezing software versions at some point in the development process, and both KDE3.4.2 and Amarok 1.3.9 are (for Dapper) frozen at those versions.

The Amarok/KDE3/Koffice repos are not official releases, and they are done by some of the devs simply as a service to us Kubuntu users, that way we don't have to wait for edgy if we don't want to. We are lucky that they are able to get these packages to us quickly, and even fix some major bugs rather quickly, and I offer my many thanks to them for their work!

[Fenyx]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

Thanks for the inputs. claydoh, who were you able to talk with?

I guess I was just pretty confused or maybe even a bit jealous that GNOME was upgraded to 2.14.3 in Ubuntu through the repositories, while it was also a maintenance release, with some new features, just like KDE's.

I never knew that the KDE releases in Kubuntu were unofficial. I thought they were official Kubuntu (but unofficial Ubuntu) packages. I'm grateful to them for it, though. But maybe they could just give a "slight" warning saying that's it's not really that official?

Anyway, do you have any idea if these maintenance releases will make it to the backports? someone from MEPIS is claiming that the new KDE releases are always placed later in backports.

[claydoh]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

I do not know why Gnome gets more current versions in Dapper than Kubuntu, maybe it is a manpower issue, maybe the versioning is really minor compared to KDE, perhaps K has a slightly different release regimen than Ubuntu. that is a good question to ask, that is for sure. But as we still get the latest and greatest, I find it no big deal where it comes from

[Fenyx]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

Well, it becomes a big deal when it's time to ask for help. It's not in Ubuntu's repos, so it's definitely not under Ubuntu's support. Because it's unofficial, where do you get help? Tried the forums, and the IRC. Nada...

And after getting into a discussion with an Ubuntu dev, it sounded like "it's jriddell's repository so it's experimental, no support here...".

[claydoh]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

If you go to #kubuntu-devel on freenode, thats where the Kubuntu devs hang out, I am on dialup at the moment, and cannot tie up my phone for very long, so chatting, even email becomes rather difficult.

Yes, It is jriddells' repo, it's his gpg key you import to "trust" the files. He is often seen in #kubuntu-devel, and on the kubuntu-users mailing list iirc

[Fenyx]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

I was able to have a (very) brief conversation with Jonathan Riddell over at the IRC (#kubuntu) and I asked him about these questions.
(It was just a few minutes after you left. I mentioned "Riddell" and totally forgot about Konversation's notification. He must have heard an alarm or something... )

These were the answers I got:

1. Why isn't KDE 3.5.4 in dapper-updates:
- KDE 3.5.4 had some problems so he didn't want to put it in -updates
- manpower issues
- the Kubuntu team has more freedom to do what they want/need to do if it's in just in Kubuntu.org

2. Is the special repositories for KDE official?
- Yes, it is official Kubuntu (take note, Kubuntu, not Ubuntu), since it was made by Jonathan Riddell. And for those who might not know it yet, Jonathan Riddell is Kubuntu.

3. Will it ever be put into the Backports?
- While backports is the best place for it, backports has been non-functional for quite some time and has no signs of changing, so it can't be used

Well, that has satisfied my curiousity and taken away my doubts. I would have asked Riddell more, but I immediately got sweaty hands an butterflies in my stomach just talking to him.

[claydoh]

Re: Why are Kubuntu/KDE upgrades upgraded differently?

Good info!

Don't be afraid of Jonathan, He doesn't bite ( I think )
For a Kubuntu dev, (and KDE as well) he sure seems to be able to find the time to chat in irc (#kubuntu-devel mostly) and in the mailing list, always level headed and well spoken imho.