Wine or V-Box

[wanderingarcticfox]

I have been reading and researching and I am trying to figure out which way to go. Should I use Wine or V-box to run programs written for Microsoft? If I use V-Box then will I have to actually install Windows or can I use Wine inside that?

There is a inexpensive CAD program, [well two actually] at the Office Max I live near. One even says it is written for Windows and Mac.

I see a lot of post in using the 'search' function in how-to's, etc. so I am a little concerned with Wine as that my skill set is still on a sharp learning curve. I am also wondering about security when using Wine and if Firestarter is a sufficient enough firewall for protection if using Wine.

My final question at this time is that if Wine is going to install in my /home then will this make my /home folder open to attacks?

[GreyGeek]

Re: Wine or V-Box

IF you own a licensed INSTALLABLE CD of Windows the best option is to use VirutalBox.

IMO, WINE is the last option.

[wanderingarcticfox]

Re: Wine or V-Box

Can Windows [full license] be installed into a logical partition? Or is it more secure to install it inside V-Box?

My biggest concern is security, that is why I built my system with Linux. I do not want to open the back door of my system to threats common to windows, but I would like to run some software [CAD] that is not designed for use with Linux at this time.

I have a few programs I downloaded and installed via the Ubuntu Software Center ; I did it that way because I have to use Gnome to utilize the 'Proprietary Drivers' from ATI in order to have 3D from my V4800 workstation card. I will be checking those programs out during the next couple of months.

[claydoh]

Re: Wine or V-Box

virtualbox is theoretically safer, as you can always make a copy of your VM as a backup and use that if you get any windows malady - which you would still be able to get. in that VM - it literally is an instance of Windows running. And as it is such, it can really slow your system down as you are running 2 OS's at the same time.

Wine is Ok, but only if you know that your desired program runs well using it - else you may have to find out how to get it to work, pull your hair out, scream, swear, and then give up

Dual-booting is usually feasible if you don't mind rebooting to run those windows apps you need.

There are also any number of CAD programs in Linux
http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/08/8...for-linux.html

[SteveRiley]

Re: Wine or V-Box

I've configured both Wine and Virtual Box running a Windows 7 guest. I need full Windows 7 because I have to use Office 2010 for work, which won't run under Wine. I keep Wine around for the little Windows things that I use when I'm not "at work" -- mostly for Adobe Digital Editions, which is required to download e-books from the Seattle public library.

No performance problems here, but I'll admit my laptop is a bit tricked out with 6 GB RAM and a 160 GB SSD. 64-bit CPUs with hardware-assisted virtualization really helps to make a difference, too.

Regarding security...Windows 7 is vastly improved over XP. Windows 7 is reasonably secure by default: a firewall is enabled, automatic updates are enabled, and user account control is enabled. I'd suggest adding Microsoft Security Essentials, a free download that's better than the included Windows Defender. My entire family runs this configuration and never have security problems.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Wine or V-Box

Can Windows [full license] be installed into a logical partition? Or is it more secure to install it inside V-Box?

My biggest concern is security, that is why I built my system with Linux. I do not want to open the back door of my system to threats common to windows, but I would like to run some software [CAD] that is .
...

Running Windows as a guest OS will be safer in terms of back doors or remote entries, but Windows ActiveX technology makes it vulnerable to any email or browser attack. I'd never run IE or Exchange in a Windows guest OS. And, I'd install Microsoft's Security Essentials AV software, which is free and has regular updates. IMO, it is the best AV software available for Windows.

When installed Windows ALWAYS hogs the disk. IF you decide to install Windows and Linux in dual boot mode the best procedure is to use GParted to break your HD up into two partitions, according to the size you want to give to Windows and Linux. Then, install Windows FIRST. Then install Kubuntu. One of the options will be to install Kubuntu on the second partition. Choose it and continue with the install. When done, you will be presented on boot up with a menu offering Windows, Linux and some test and recover options.


BUT, if your reason for using Windows is for a CAD platform allow me to recommend that youFORGET installing Windows and check out the several CAD options available as native apps under Linux. I used QCad's free offering, available in the repository and with excellent tutorials, to draw my house floor plans. I have also played with Open Cascade and CYCAS. Both are excellent as well. I've installed FreeCAD and SweetHome3D, but haven't gotten around to trying them out yet. Believe it or not, Blender has also been used as a CAD tool.

So, free or $$$, there are excellent CAD apps out there, and hence no need to install Windows.

[oshunluvr]

Re: Wine or V-Box

As someone who's uses both V-Box and Wine, IMO it's not an all-or-nothing proposition. Some apps run better under wine than winblows, some not at all. Some require Vbox, some don't.

You have to research and try - it's the only way to really know what's the best option.

Besides, with that new power machine of yours with all the drive space - it's not like you can't do both

[SteveRiley]

Re: Wine or V-Box

As someone who's uses both V-Box and Wine, IMO it's not an all-or-nothing proposition. Some apps run better under wine than winblows, some not at all. Some require Vbox, some don't.

Exactly why I'm doing the same.

Here's another neat idea: you can set up your Virtual Box VM to listen for incoming RDP sessions. So if you want, you can start your VM and shove it to the background, then use KRDC to connect to it. I'm not convinced that's actually easier than letting VBox operate in its rather neat seamless mode, but still...when I tried it today and it just worked, I thought "wow, that's kinda cool."

[wanderingarcticfox]

Re: Wine or V-Box

Thanks to Everyone for the input I am checking into the CAD for Linux and the ones in Ubuntu repository. I think I will check those out first to see if they can meet my needs. I do appreciate the dialog because I learned a few things I did not know.

[doctordruidphd]

Re: Wine or V-Box

Just to add my $.02:

I use both virtualbox/windows7 and wine. About the only thing I use the vb/win for is applications that need to attach to hardware devices, specifically radio scanners and the like. Hardware devices that attach via USB generally won't work using wine.

That said, I should also point out the many hardware arrangements won't work with either wine or vb/windows, specifically things that use USB for audio connectivity. The WINMOR program for radio packet communications won't work at all, either with wine or vb/win. And I have been so far unable to program my Razer Lachesis mouse using vb/win. So hardware connectivity is just not reliable via either method, though for some strange reason it DOES work for the radios (probably because they use digital handshaking which catches the errors).

Games are a mixed bag. Some actually work with wine, some work poorly, and others don't work at all. Games in a virtualbox are a losing proposition -- the video and cpu demand just can't be met that way. That would apply to pretty much any 3d graphics, video, or even audio processing software.

There is yet another alternative, and that is Codeweavers, a commercial version of wine, made specifically to run MS Office and other programs. Check out their website to see if the program you want to run is supported. The price is about half that of windows, though as I understand it you do need to buy a new license every year.

If you can find a program that meets your needs that was written for linux, that's the best choice. Next would be to check the wine website's appdb section, and see if you can find a program known to work with wine that does what you want; keep in mind that wine costs you nothing, so if it works, you're in business. Failing that, try the Codeweavers website, and lastly, windows in a virtualbox (there is also VMware, a commercial virtualbox-like program, that many prefer).

In the end, there is no guarantee that any windows program (or "for windows" hardware) can be made to work properly, or even work at all, under linux. But then again, one of the reasons I quit windows is that so much of the "for windows" hardware and software doesn't work under windows, either...

[GreyGeek]

Re: Wine or V-Box

...
Games are a mixed bag. Some actually work with wine, some work poorly, and others don't work at all. Games in a virtualbox are a losing proposition -- the video and cpu demand just can't be met that way. That would apply to pretty much any 3d graphics, video, or even audio processing software.

Another problem with WINE for some apps is that after you spend some time configuring an app to run WINE the next release of WINE breaks your config and you can't get the app to run again under WINE. The "wine bottle" paradigm has reduced this problem to some effect, but it is still a problem.

There is yet another alternative, and that is Codeweavers, a commercial version of wine, made specifically to run MS Office and other programs. Check out their website to see if the program you want to run is supported. The price is about half that of windows, though as I understand it you do need to buy a new license every year.

They have two versions. The professional one costs more but includes updates for the year. But, CrossOver Office works better than WINE for most Windows office applications, which is its target base. While you don't have to renew your license annually, sometimes updates to a Windows application will break its compatibility with CrossOver and you have to get an update. With the lower cost version that requires purchasing the updated version, WHEN the update comes out.

A difficulty I have with CodeWeaver is that their version of WINE, when installed, has hijacked the audio and video playback mimes. This problem may be solved but it is the reason why I uninstalled version 7 of the professional and never install my copy of version 8.

In the end, there is no guarantee that any windows program (or "for windows" hardware) can be made to work properly, or even work at all, under linux. But then again, one of the reasons I quit windows is that so much of the "for windows" hardware and software doesn't work under windows, either...

For most Windows apps that I have had to run (which don't, as you point out, require hardware connections), an actual copy of Windows running under VB is, for me the best option. I HATE dual booting or WABI because I want to switch back and forth between Linux and Windows at times.

[doctordruidphd]

Re: Wine or V-Box

Thanks for the clarification on Codewavers versions.

Another problem with WINE for some apps is that after you spend some time configuring an app to run WINE the next release of WINE breaks your config and you can't get the app to run again under WINE. The "wine bottle" paradigm has reduced this problem to some effect, but it is still a problem.

The only difference from windows itself is I think they plan for windows to do that.

I'm basically so sick of windows problems that I actually quit buying games altogether. If Postal-3 comes out with a linux version as promised, maybe, but no more "for windows", no matter how cool it looks. It just isn't worth the frustration.

[SteveRiley]

Re: Wine or V-Box

That said, I should also point out the many hardware arrangements won't work with either wine or vb/windows, specifically things that use USB for audio connectivity. The WINMOR program for radio packet communications won't work at all, either with wine or vb/win. And I have been so far unable to program my Razer Lachesis mouse using vb/win. So hardware connectivity is just not reliable via either method, though for some strange reason it DOES work for the radios (probably because they use digital handshaking which catches the errors).

VMware Workstation 8, which you can get for a free trial, includes a new version of VMware player -- version 4. Although I'm pretty happy with V-Box right now, I'd be willing to switch to Player 4 if it had enough new features to justify the time spent converting my V-Box VM. Alas, I can't seem to find a detailed description of what's new and improved over Player 3.1.4, which is still what you get if you want to download it separately...

[oshunluvr]

Re: Wine or V-Box

I pre-ordered this game: OilRush because it came in native linux format.

Cool graphics and audio too. I'm really too busy for much gaming right now, but once in a while I steal a few minutes.

[dibl]

Re: Wine or V-Box

VMware Workstation 8, which you can get for a free trial, includes a new version of VMware player -- version 4. Although I'm pretty happy with V-Box right now, I'd be willing to switch to Player 4 if it had enough new features to justify the time spent converting my V-Box VM. Alas, I can't seem to find a detailed description of what's new and improved over Player 3.1.4, which is still what you get if you want to download it separately...

Caution!

I downloaded VMware Player 4 from here: http://softwareupdate.vmware.com/cds...80/linux/core/

and the 32-bit version puked up an error about the architecture of my 32-bit Toshiba NB205.

On 64-bit, I accepted the upgrade from 3.1.4, and promptly lost the ability to bridge or NAT network the VM. I was forced to reinstall 3.1.4 on two computers to get back to a networked VM.

There are no other reports of these bugs yet -- I feel like the "canary in the coal mine" at this point. But my advice is to stick to 3.1.4 until there's a convincing story to support upgrading to Player 4.