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**Telengard** · Jul 06, 2010, 11:21 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Originally posted by http://www.answers.com/taxonomy

tax·on·o·my (tăk-sŏn'ə-mē)
n., pl., -mies.
. . .
3. Division into ordered groups or categories

Canonical produces an operating system which is a distribution of GNU/Linux software. It is named Ubuntu, and includes the Linux kernel, GNU core utilities, and a selection of the most popular Free and open source software. At this point we are taking about an operating system which consists of little more than the Linux command line and X. The operating system is subdivided into Desktop and Server, and each of those is further ordered by architecture 32-bit and 64 bit. The Ubuntu Server system is pretty much complete at this point.

Most desktop users don't consider a command line only operating system to be complete. To make the system complete for them we need a desktop environment and all kinds of GUI applications for users to get work done. Canonical initially chose Gnome to be the desktop environment for Ubuntu Desktop users. Because Gnome uses the GTK libraries it only makes sense that the choices for all the desktop applications be limited to those applications which also use GTK libraries. Firefox, Open Office and Gedit are among these desktop applications.

Every 6 months Canonical gets the latest upstream versions of the Linux kernel, GNU core utils, system libraries, and desktop applications. They also look for new applications to better serve the needs of users and keep the distro competitive with other contemporary Linux desktop distros. The new packages are all bundled together for the latest release of Ubuntu, which is numbered according to the year and month of release. Because Canonical feels that users don't like to remember numbers they also name it after some obscure but cute animal.

Some users don't like Gnome and its applications, so Canonical decided to make a sister project call Kubuntu. (correction) Kubuntu is Ubuntu, except that it uses the K Desktop Environment instead of Gnome. That is to say, the two share the same kernel, GNU core utilities, system libraries, X server and everything else right up until the desktop layer. Because the system software is essentially the same releases of Kubuntu use the same version numbers and cute but obscure animal names as their Ubuntu counterparts.

KDE uses its own libraries based on QT instead of GTK. For the sake of efficiency, and to save space on the install CD, Kubuntu ships with mostly KDE desktop applications such as Konqueror, KOffice, and Kate. Kubuntu users enjoy a distinctive KDE environment while sharing almost exactly the same base system as Ubuntu. The overall system is similar enough that you can easily install either desktop environment on the other distribution, provided they share the Ubuntu release version is the same. Many people do this by installing the gnome-desktop-environment package on KDE or vice versa.

When it comes to Xubuntu and the rest of the *buntus it is essentially the same story, except that these flavors are all targeted at different groups of users with specific needs.

I probably didn't explain this right, and more than likely don't understand it completely myself. There is far more of the story to tell, but I'm too lazy to write here what is explained in The Official Ubuntu Book. You can learn a great deal more by reading the book, browsing the Ubuntu web site and wiki, and reading the posts which will probably follow mine. Forgive my shortcomings, but I still have a great deal to learn myself.

Hope that answers your question, or at least gives you some ideas to research more.

**Ole Juul** · Jul 07, 2010, 12:10 AM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

That's a nice clear discussion of the subject. GTK favoured by Ubuntu and QT by Kubuntu. It kind of looks like it's mostly a matter of branding. I can't really make out any strong distinctions outside of the favoured package management system.

I just ran "uname -a" on an installation with Ubuntu Server 10.04 and it came back:

Code:

Linux CDX 2.6.32-22-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 23:14:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux

Another has Ubuntu Server 8.04 and it says:

Code:

Linux CCB 2.6.24-23-server #1 SMP Wed Apr 1 22:22:14 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux

I don't have a 10.04 desktop to check, but it looks like 10.04 may not be using separate kernels for desktop and server. There used to be a difference in the scheduling. Anyway, my feeling is that there is not really anything distinctive about Ubuntu or Kubuntu except branding and out-of-the-box preference settings and programs.

Anyway, if it's not fresh off the CD, I wouldn't know what to tell people.

**Fintan** · Jul 07, 2010, 03:03 AM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

@Telengard: Nice summery.
Actually, following that logic ubuntu should be called Gubuntu or Gnubuntu.

Now that would confuse things

Just for clarification:
Desktop Kubuntu 10.04

fintan@fintanws2:~$ uname -a
Linux fintanws2 2.6.32-23-generic #37-Ubuntu SMP Fri Jun 11 07:54:58 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
fintan@fintanws2:~$

Server Ubuntu server:

power1@fintanws3:~$ uname -a
Linux fintanws3 2.6.32-22-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 23:14:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
power1@fintanws3:~$

They are not quite the same kernels.
pae = physical access extension.

Meaning this kernel will allow more than 4GB Ram

**Ole Juul** · Jul 07, 2010, 03:45 AM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

@Fintan: Yes, I see, not quite the same kernels. I wonder why the PAE would be default for the server. I see most commercial servers use under 3GB ram and they are quickly moving to 64 bit as well, where the PAE isn't needed. Also, I would think that one would want preemption off for a server and on for a desktop. Interrupts need to be quite high for modern desktop requirements like voip and you wouldn't want that on a server would you? Perhaps these concepts are out of date for modern machines.

Anyway, server or desktop, any more comments on what names to use for (K)ubuntu related systems?

**Telengard** · Jul 07, 2010, 10:12 AM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Originally posted by Fintan

@Telengard: Nice summery.

Thanks, but I know it is far from complete and could be much more precise. Just reading it again I notice many things I could have mentioned, such as the relationship with Debian. The whole process could occupy a book on its own. If anyone wants to correct, clarify, or add more info then please do.

When it comes to learning the identity of *buntu systems there are many things you can go by. I am in the habit of using three commands.

uname -a is most useful for kernel and architecture information.

Code:

$ uname --help
Usage: uname [OPTION]...
Print certain system information. With no OPTION, same as -s.

 -a, --all        print all information, in the following order,
               except omit -p and -i if unknown:
 -s, --kernel-name    print the kernel name
 -n, --nodename      print the network node hostname
 -r, --kernel-release   print the kernel release
 -v, --kernel-version   print the kernel version
 -m, --machine      print the machine hardware name
 -p, --processor     print the processor type or "unknown"
 -i, --hardware-platform print the hardware platform or "unknown"
 -o, --operating-system  print the operating system
. . .

lsb_release -a gives you Ubuntu release information. It doesn't seem to differentiate beween the *buntus though, which goes back to my point that they are really all the same OS.

Code:

$ lsb_release --help
Usage: lsb_release [options]

Options:
 -h, --help     show this help message and exit
 -v, --version   show LSB modules this system supports
 -i, --id      show distributor ID
 -d, --description show description of this distribution
 -r, --release   show release number of this distribution
 -c, --codename   show code name of this distribution
 -a, --all     show all of the above information
 -s, --short    show all of the above information in short format

kde-config -v gives you KDE and QT information, though I think this one got a new name in KDE4. Alternatively you can try konqueror -v, dolphin -v, khelpcenter -v, kopete -v, or I suppose any of the standard KDE desktop applications will give you the same output. I really don't know what the equivalent command would be for Gnome or for other *buntus.

On my old desktop computer with Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Desktop 32-bit:

Code:

$ uname -a
Linux Alia 2.6.24-28-generic #1 SMP Thu May 27 00:16:49 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:  Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS
Release:    8.04
Codename:    hardy
$ konqueror -v
Qt: 3.3.8b
KDE: 3.5.10
Konqueror: 3.5.10

On my new desktop computer with Kubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope Desktop 64-bit:

Code:

$ uname -a
Linux owner-desktop 2.6.28-19-generic #61-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 26 23:32:46 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:  Ubuntu 9.04
Release:    9.04
Codename:    jaunty
$ konqueror -v
Qt: 4.5.0
KDE: 4.2.4 (KDE 4.2.4)
Konqueror: 4.2.4 (KDE 4.2.4)

Take note of the way I state the full name of each system:

Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Desktop 32-bit

Kubuntu is the Ubuntu operating system paired with the KDE desktop
8.04 is the year and month of release (aka version or release number) and means April 2008
Hardy Heron is the cute but obscure animal name. It doesn't tell you anything technical about the system, but is easier for some people to remember than 8.04
Desktop tells you this edition is configured for end users with a desktop environment and matching applications. The Server edition would not include a desktop environment
32-bit is the system architecture which the software is compiled for. Very important to know this because 64-bit is quickly becoming more common

Kubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope Desktop 64-bit

Kubuntu = Ubuntu + KDE
9.04 = April 2009
Jaunty Jackalope = cute but obscure animal name
Desktop = Desktop environment included
64-bit = system architecture

And those are all the important things you need to know to distinguish between *buntus. Of course there are many other combinations and permutations.

**Yuri sss** · Jul 07, 2010, 12:36 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

We could come up with proper "K"-names for every Kubuntu release.
How about "Klever Kougar" for 10.04?

Originally posted by Fintan

Server Ubuntu server:

power1@fintanws3:~$ uname -a
Linux fintanws3 2.6.32-22-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 23:14:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
power1@fintanws3:~$

They are not quite the same kernels.
pae = physical access extension.

Meaning this kernel will allow more than 4GB Ram

It will allow you to have 4GB or more installed, but not to properly use it.
It's impossible for any 32-bit OS to use more than 3.25GB of ram in total and no more than 2GB per application. That's a limitation of the architecture, with no possible way around it.
This is no different for pae kernels. They are just using an ugly hack, doing lots of swapping in and swapping out in the memory to access the remainder of the memory.
Of course, the constant swapping comes at a noteable performance penalty, so if performance is of any concern, Pae kernels should be avoided. Thus, using a pae kernel for a server is not very smart at all. Pae is just an emergency solution if you're stuck on outdated hardware which doesn't support 64-bit and absolutely must access 4GB or more, and the speed is of no concern.

Back on topic, uname -a gives me for 10.04:

Code:

Linux ... 2.6.35-6-generic #9-Ubuntu SMP Sun Jul 4 17:36:53 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux

lsb_release -a

Code:

No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:  Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
Release:    10.04
Codename:    lucid

dolphin -v

Code:

Qt: 4.7.0
KDE Development Platform: 4.4.90 (KDE 4.4.90 (KDE 4.5 RC1))
Dolphin: 1.5

**Ole Juul** · Jul 07, 2010, 05:42 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Yuri sss: Of course, the constant swapping comes at a noteable performance penalty, so if performance is of any concern, Pae kernels should be avoided. Thus, using a pae kernel for a server is not very smart at all.

Interesting. I popped in a Ubuntu Server 10.04 CD and after a generic install on a 32 bit machine with 2GB ram it gave me this:

Code:

Linux CDX 2.6.32-22-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 23:14:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux

So what does Canonical not know about server kernels? I'm confused.

Anyway from what people are telling me, if someone asks me what OS I'm running, I guess (after clearing my throat and taking a deep breath) I'll have to say: "2.6.32-22-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 23:14:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux with fluxbox". By that time they'll be long gone and I'll be talking to myself. lol So what should I say?

**Telengard** · Jul 07, 2010, 06:17 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Originally posted by Ole Juul

So what should I say?

You should tell them whatever it says in the output of lsb_release -dc and also mention that you are using the Fluxbox desktop environment.

For example my computer would be "Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS Hardy with KDE".

If they still want to know more detail then you can give them the rest of the gobbledeygoop.

**claydoh** · Jul 07, 2010, 06:29 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Just say (K)Ubuntu, then if asked which version, say Kubuntu Lucid. Then if asked further, give the Kernel version

Kinda like this:
I have a Chevy
It's a 2005 Express Van
It is the 3500-series with the 6.0 liter V8 Engine

**claydoh** · Jul 07, 2010, 06:37 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Originally posted by Telengard

Some users don't like Gnome and its applications, so Canonical decided to make a sister project call Kubuntu. Kubuntu is Ubuntu, except that it uses the K Desktop Environment instead of Gnome. That is to say, the two share the same kernel, GNU core utilities, system libraries, X server and everything else right up until the desktop layer. Because the system software is essentially the same releases of Kubuntu use the same version numbers and cute but obscure animal names as their Ubuntu counterparts.

just a minor correction here:
Kubuntu was started by Jonathan Riddell as a community-driven side project to bring KDE to Ubuntu as a separate entity. Canonical ended up sanctioning it as an official Ubuntu project. And hiring Jonathan in the process

**Telengard** · Jul 07, 2010, 06:54 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Thanks claydoh. I added a link to your post because, disclaimer aside, I'm far too lazy to properly research, rewrite, and expand that post :P

**Yuri sss** · Jul 08, 2010, 12:26 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Originally posted by Ole Juul

Yuri sss: Of course, the constant swapping comes at a noteable performance penalty, so if performance is of any concern, Pae kernels should be avoided. Thus, using a pae kernel for a server is not very smart at all.

Interesting. I popped in a Ubuntu Server 10.04 CD and after a generic install on a 32 bit machine with 2GB ram it gave me this:

Code:

Linux CDX 2.6.32-22-generic-pae #36-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 3 23:14:23 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux

So what does Canonical not know about server kernels? I'm confused.

Anyone still using 32-bit for a server only does so because he is *forced* to use 32-bit due to outdated hardware not supporting 64-bit.
Servers with such old hardware can't be used for speed-critical applications anyway, so it doesn't harm to put the pae kernel inside.

**Ole Juul** · Jul 08, 2010, 04:28 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Originally posted by Yuri sss

Anyone still using 32-bit for a server only does so because he is *forced* to use 32-bit due to outdated hardware not supporting 64-bit.
Servers with such old hardware can't be used for speed-critical applications anyway, so it doesn't harm to put the pae kernel inside.

I see. Ubuntu still prominently offers a 32 bit server edition on their download site.Why would you slow down machines which were speed-critical a few months ago? Wouldn't faster still be preferred?

**kyonides** · Jul 08, 2010, 04:55 PM

Re: (K)ubuntu taxonomy

Well, I don't think Lynx is an obscure animal name...

Jackalope = A rabbit with deer like horns. According to some historians and scientists it was just a rabbit that suffered a disease that made it grow some kind of large teeth that looked more like horns. Wiki has info about it.

Meerkat

Besides which *buntu has x GUI, does policykit also vary from *buntu to *buntu?

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