Moonlight on Linux

[GreyGeek]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

sudo apt-get remove libmono-system1.0-cil libmono-system2.0-cil

But then if I

sudo apt-get install firefox gimp vlc

Oops! I got mono!

You sure?

I have all of those installed and

jerry@Sonyvgnfw140e:~$ sudo apt-get -s remove libmono-system2.0-cil libmono-system1.0-cil
[sudo] password for jerry:
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package libmono-system2.0-cil is not installed, so not removed
Package libmono-system1.0-cil is not installed, so not removed
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
jerry@Sonyvgnfw140e:~$

They work very well, too!

You must have something else installed that uses MONO. Banshee?

Seriously GG, which distro do I run to when all I want is to get away from M$?

Kubuntu has no MONO dependencies. I'm staying with it until Canonical gives me a reason to move.

[Telengard]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

No GG, that was supposed to be a hypothetical. I wrote if because I don't believe those apps have any M$ API dependencies yet.

But if everything you have written on mono and moonlight is correct then they will. All the major GTK apps will eventually incorporate M$ APIs because GTK+ will be dropped from Gnome in favor of M$ APIs. Those developers who want to keep their Gnome apps current will have no choice but to adopt M$ APIs.

That's why someday soon installing Firefox, Gimp or VLC on Kubuntu will bring along mono and maybe moonlight. That's why I am worried.

[MoonRise]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

No GG, that was supposed to be a hypothetical. I wrote if because I don't believe those apps have any M$ API dependencies yet.

But if everything you have written on mono and moonlight is correct then they will. All the major GTK apps will eventually incorporate M$ APIs because GTK+ will be dropped from Gnome in favor of M$ APIs. Those developers who want to keep their Gnome apps current will have no choice but to adopt M$ APIs.

That's why someday soon installing Firefox, Gimp or VLC on Kubuntu will bring along mono and maybe moonlight. That's why I am worried.

Same, but as I said, it was obvious from the start that M$ was going to defeat any Open Source project from the inside out. Look at their forcing of their Open Document format as a standard. There were also many counts of them doing under the table deals to make it happen.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

....
Same, but as I said, it was obvious from the start that M$ was going to defeat any Open Source project from the inside out. Look at their forcing of their Open Document format as a standard. There were also many counts of them doing under the table deals to make it happen.

Exactly.

Consider this news article last month: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n...-guideline.ars

...
The EIF's original definition of an open standard stipulated that the standard must be authored through an inclusive process and maintained by a nonprofit organization and that patents covering the standard must be made available under royalty-free terms. A standard had to meet that set of criteria in order to be considered "open" in the context of EU guidance on standards adoption. The original version of the EIF also explicitly acknowledged the interoperability benefits of open source software.

The latest draft version, which was leaked this week, looks very different. ComputerWorld UK points out that the section about open source software has been removed entirely and new text has been introduced that attempts to put "homogeneity" on equal footing with open standards. The new version also has a weaker and more ambiguous definition of what constitutes an open standard.
...

How did that sad state of affairs arise? Jonathan Zuck weaseled his way onto the committee that was writing the document defining the future of open source software in Europe for the next decade, or longer and he began making edits, changes and substitutions which totally reverted the intent of the document, as explained in leaked PDF which Wikileaks got a hold of:
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/European_C...raft,_Mar_2009

(If the wiki site is down the essence of that page is captured here.

Who is Zuck?

Jonathan Zuck is President of the Association for Competitive Technology and founder of Americans for Technology Leadership. He was very active on the software patents directive, taking a position in favor of patenting software. ACT seems to be tied to corporate members like Microsoft, and Mr Zuck has been visited by Mr Gates in February 2005. ACT has also taken positions to defend Microsoft against the antitrust ruling of the Commission.

Zuck's organization, ACT, was created by Microsoft after it's original front, ATL, got caught sending astroturf emails to Congress during the DOJ trial. When Microsoft started having trouble with the European Union Zuck set up an ACT office in Brussels to help Microsoft fight the EU. He ALWAYS mirrors Microsoft's position on important issues.

You can find out more about Microsoft's activities and front groups here.

[Telengard]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

oh man i would hate to lose FF, the GIMP or VLC.... sounds like its time for at very least those 3 programs to be forked and ported to QT4.

Is it realistic to hope for this to happen? Can we really expect devs to take up the challenge even if only for idealogical reasons?

[GreyGeek]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

Personally, I believe that a large number of GTK+, GIMP, FF, TB and GIMP developers would fork to save the GTK+ and the GPL GNOME.

[claydoh]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

I happen to actually have Moonlight installed, to see what the whole thing is, and to check for the off-chance that it had Netfix streaming support (nope) and I have absolutely no mono packages installed whatsoever.

I think it may be a bit too early still for the sky to fall on us over a flash-like browser plugin.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight

Moonlight 1.0 is licensed under the terms of the GNU LGPL, it is a pure C++ engine.

Moonlight 2.0 contains code that is licensed under the terms of the GNU LGPL and the MIT X11 licenses, it includes the graphical C++ engine, the Mono Runtime and the Mono class libraries.

Did you install the moonlight-plugin-core and moonlight-plugin-mozillar, along with libmoon? Those are a clone SilverLight 1.0. If you had the libmono-wcf3.0-cil installed then you'd have had the full mono library installed.

[Ole Juul]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

I think a big part of what drives Linux development, and uptake, is MS-Windows ideals. When it comes to avoiding the mono/MS problem in the future, that peer pressuer is going to be the difficult part to overcome. The lack of popularity of the BSD systems is actually their strongest point because it makes them less vulnerable to popular ideals and subsequent pressures.

[Zhao]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

I have all of those installed and

They work very well, too!

You must have something else installed that uses MONO.

I checked mine and there was mono packages installed. I removed all of them and everything is working like before (except for sysinfo that got removed, but it's not like I used it).

Linux is a alternative to other existing Operating Systems in every aspect. A very good one at the moment. If some people are lazy and only make software for Windows, that is their problem. Right now I find Open Source alternatives to almost every proprietary software I used on Windows and use some proprietary software like Adobe Flash. It's nice that Linux Distributions have given a great use to GUI and made it easier to use, but if they start becoming like Windows at their core I believe they stop being an alternative and might become with time cheap copies.

I am no expert and my opinion is only based on the commentaries of this thread and the pleasure I have when using Kubuntu. However I don't care some stupid hardware manufacturers and software developers are lazy with their drivers (Lexmark for example didn't even bother making some drivers to Windows Vista) and software that wont provide them to Linux users (many of them don't keep up with every Windows version that come out...), but each time I log in at Kubuntu is always some fresh air (I rarely log in at Windows now, only for some games or the stupid printer). Let's see what really happens in the future.

[sithlord48]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

removing my mono junk , makes me remove kdebindings-kde4...

[GreyGeek]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

Your've installed the KDE utility which adds bindings to several dev tools:

kdebindings-kde4
KDE 4 bindings for Python, Ruby and (CIL) C#

The offending library is "libkimono4.1-cil"

I'd use

sudo apt-get --force-yes remove libkimono4.1-cil

and see if that leaves the other dependencies behind. If not, I'd -s (simulate) a removal to see what removing kdebindings-kde4 will take with it and if you can live with that then commit it. My installation is setup to do development work and I don't have kdebindings-kde4 installed.

[sithlord48]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

naw i just droped the bindings.

it seams like a meta package w/ the ruby,python, CLI (mono/c#) . i don't use python but if i end up needing it i will just install its bindings..

[jpenguin]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

QT4 ports of those apps (VLC, FF)would be great, but I'm not sure it'll happen. What about FLTK? Does it rely on MONO?

[GreyGeek]

Re: Moonlight on Linux

No. FLTK is a cross platform set of C++ class libraries which make extensive use of "static" declarations. It is offered under the Lessor GPL, which allows for linking of proprietary static libraries, the source to which the recipient cannot request.

FLTK has been around since it was a Forms Library on SGI machines in 1998. To avoid conflicts with Florida's initials, which made Google search difficult, they modified FL to FLTK - Fast Light Took Kit.

For being around so long, essentially as long as Qt and GTK, one would assume that their GUI widget sets are very polished, like Qt's and GTK's, with an extensive collections of classes, methods and properties, but one would be wrong. The GUI presentations are very crude, except when they call exposed methods and properties of Microsoft's GUI classes on Windows platforms. Instead of sophisticated and easy to use Connect() functions, and Signals & Slots technology which Qt pioneered and GTK copied, FLTK uses a clumsy and limited pointer callback() functionality. After more than 10 years one would also assume that a large collection of applications built using FLTK would be available. But, like MONO, after 10 years there is still little to show. Currently, MONO can only present a GUI if it binds to GTK's gui tools, so at least FLTK is ahead of MONO in that respect.

FLTK prides itself on being "light". It's "Hello World" program is only 14 lines long and 100Kb in size.

#include <FL/Fl.H>
#include <FL/Fl_Window.H>
#include <FL/Fl_Box.H>
int main(int argc, char **argv) {
Fl_Window *window = new Fl_Window(300,180);
Fl_Box *box = new Fl_Box(20,40,260,100,"Hello, World!");
box->box(FL_UP_BOX);
box->labelsize(36);
box->labelfont(FL_BOLD+FL_ITALIC);
box->labeltype(FL_SHADOW_LABEL);
window->end();
window->show(argc, argv);
return Fl::run();
}

Qt4's "Hello World" program is only 9 lines long.

#include <QApplication>
#include <QPushButton>
int main(int argc, char *argv&#91;]) {
QApplication app(argc, argv);
QPushButton hello("Hello world!");
hello.resize(100, 30);
hello.show();
return app.exec();
}

Except that the Qt4 Hellow World has an interactive push button to close the application, and the FLTK relies on the ESC key to do the same. The actual graphic output are worlds apart in quality and ease of extension and modification. Qt4 widgets have many more classes with more fully developed methods and properties, giving it a much greater capability to easily add to and extend an application. And, what isn't used isn't compiled in, the executable size is remains small. Besides, with dual core and more CPU capabilities, GigaByte size memories and TerraByte size HDs, and sector sizes soon to change from 512 bytes to 4096 byes, few people will care that an application takes 1,500 sectors instead of 500 sectors, especially if the man-hours of development and support are a small fraction of that of the "lighter" tool because the "heavier" tool has more built in power and capability.

I've been on the computer programming scene since I took Fortran in grad school in 1968. Very heavily since 1978. I thought I had heard about most available programming languages, even those swirling in the small eddies of programming currents on minor tributaries of the C, C++ and Java rivers, but this is the first time I have heard of FLTK. After looking at its API I can understand why it has remained successfully hidden for so long.