Re: So... is Karmic Koala going to be usable?
@ gregwalton
This:
"I have been trying to say that from the excitement that was created a few years ago when Ubuntu and its variants were first widely recognised as a possible alternative to Windows things seem *to me* to have gone backwards. I have also been trying to say that I think the Ubuntu family (or some of its members) missed an opportunity to capitalise on the early failure of Vista with a stable, easy-to-use, nice-to-look-at Linux."
and this:
"The point was that this history of Kubuntu apparently preferring to try out new toys over providing stability does not suit me and probably won't suit anyone who, for whatever reasons, has not the time, skill or desire to make a hobby out of their operating system."
We seem to be of like minds. Some time ago, I had posted comments/analysis similar to yours. Although a tech-type, I always think in terms of marketing for some reason. I agree with the two paragraphs I quoted of yours here.
However ... the big however! dot-dot-dot ...
The veteran Linux guys here pointed something out to me awhile back that I hadn't thought about. You need to shake your world-frame around, reset your assumptions. Kubuntu is not written per se for anyone, certainly not for any targeted markets or market targets. It just is, and it is what it is. No one is trying to out-do Windows in any sense, no comparison is valid. And--to further paraphrase the advice I got some time ago--Linux is all about choice. When encountering a bum distro version, it is normal for users to switch around to another version or even to another distro. (I might add a hypothetical counterpoint, though: What if, in the far extreme case, almost all users stopped using Kubuntu, except for a handful of testers? Would the devs/programmers/geeks keep developing it? keep on keeping on? I honestly don't know, but I sense they might.)
Now, I understand all that, it is a helpful frame to put around this issue you've raised. But I also don't like it as such. But even that is irrelevant. To the case in point here, I think we'd be surprised to see how many users have found a comfort zone in 8.04.3, as an example; or even Mint or sidux or Ubuntu (I hate their desktop look and feel, too). Like you, I'd prefer that Kubuntu get rock solid and stay that way (plus/minus an epsilon--do you happen to be a mathematician?); provide a no-question alternative to Windows; even grab some desktop PC market share. And, to your main point, no question at all: the issue of going backwards or regressing on key, important usability features is a valid issue because it is fact. But, as I say, it is what it is. You really do have to roll with the punches over here. Besides, it might keep us young to do so.
I enjoy it, and at the same time, it is sort of a hobby for me now as I'm retired from the "Microsoft Professional Office Suite" rat race.
@ gregwalton
This:
"I have been trying to say that from the excitement that was created a few years ago when Ubuntu and its variants were first widely recognised as a possible alternative to Windows things seem *to me* to have gone backwards. I have also been trying to say that I think the Ubuntu family (or some of its members) missed an opportunity to capitalise on the early failure of Vista with a stable, easy-to-use, nice-to-look-at Linux."
and this:
"The point was that this history of Kubuntu apparently preferring to try out new toys over providing stability does not suit me and probably won't suit anyone who, for whatever reasons, has not the time, skill or desire to make a hobby out of their operating system."
We seem to be of like minds. Some time ago, I had posted comments/analysis similar to yours. Although a tech-type, I always think in terms of marketing for some reason. I agree with the two paragraphs I quoted of yours here.
However ... the big however! dot-dot-dot ...
The veteran Linux guys here pointed something out to me awhile back that I hadn't thought about. You need to shake your world-frame around, reset your assumptions. Kubuntu is not written per se for anyone, certainly not for any targeted markets or market targets. It just is, and it is what it is. No one is trying to out-do Windows in any sense, no comparison is valid. And--to further paraphrase the advice I got some time ago--Linux is all about choice. When encountering a bum distro version, it is normal for users to switch around to another version or even to another distro. (I might add a hypothetical counterpoint, though: What if, in the far extreme case, almost all users stopped using Kubuntu, except for a handful of testers? Would the devs/programmers/geeks keep developing it? keep on keeping on? I honestly don't know, but I sense they might.)
Now, I understand all that, it is a helpful frame to put around this issue you've raised. But I also don't like it as such. But even that is irrelevant. To the case in point here, I think we'd be surprised to see how many users have found a comfort zone in 8.04.3, as an example; or even Mint or sidux or Ubuntu (I hate their desktop look and feel, too). Like you, I'd prefer that Kubuntu get rock solid and stay that way (plus/minus an epsilon--do you happen to be a mathematician?); provide a no-question alternative to Windows; even grab some desktop PC market share. And, to your main point, no question at all: the issue of going backwards or regressing on key, important usability features is a valid issue because it is fact. But, as I say, it is what it is. You really do have to roll with the punches over here. Besides, it might keep us young to do so.
I enjoy it, and at the same time, it is sort of a hobby for me now as I'm retired from the "Microsoft Professional Office Suite" rat race.
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