What CPU and video for a new computer? (It's here!)

[Chopstick]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Btw. I have a question of my own regarding the i7 core temperature (and monitoring thereof) - I posted it here:

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3106042.0

Maybe some of the other i7-users know?

Thanks,
Chopstick

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

If you want good graphic fps rates avoid midrange Intel chips like the GM45, or you will be luck to get 50 fps.

The tip about Foxconn --- they are a BIOS supplier of which MSI is a major user. Becareful of mobos which have the MSI brand on them.

Foxconn wrote a Linux trap into their bios so that if the BIOS detected that it was running a Linux OS it would, in SEVEN different places in the BIOS, divert Linux into a null vector address, causing all sorts of crashing and instability at various and random times. Linux was always blamed for the instability, "since Windows runs just fine", until a developer reverse engineered the BIOS and discovered the anti-Linux traps. The BIOS also detect various versions of Windows. When the developer substituted the vector addresses given to Windows into the code detecting Linux, Linux ran without problems. Why would Foxconn specifically trap Linux into null land and give Windows a good vector address? Ask Microsoft.

[Chopstick]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Where did you get that information about Foxconn? Just curious... google only revealed and older problem from 2008 which is apparently fixed by now...

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Where did you get that information about Foxconn? Just curious... google only revealed and older problem from 2008 which is apparently fixed by now...

This from a year ago:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249
and it apparently affects MSI mobos as well:
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=118715.0

Foxconn snubbed the Linux user and told him they didn't support Linux.

Feeling the FOSS outrage and publicity, Foxconn owned up to their dodgy behavior (falling on the sword?) in a July 29th announcement:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2307
and lists the mobos affected.

The buggy BIOS also allegedly affects the following motherboards:
- MSI P965 Platinum
- Asus P5K-E
- Asus P5E WS
- Asus P5E WS PRO

Kingsly-Hughs claims no conspiracy, but apparently he didn't look at the code.


Foxconn announced a patch a few days later, around Aug 2nd, but problems persist. A bug report concerning the problem was posted on July 24th, 2008:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/251338

but post #35 stated:

Per a decision made by the Ubuntu Kernel Team, bugs will longer be assigned to the ubuntu-kernel-team in Launchpad as part of the bug triage process. The ubuntu-kernel-team is being unassigned from this bug report. Refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies for more information. Thanks.

As late as mid-March of this year Linux users are encountering the "fixed" bug in the machines. The latest posting, #37, involved an AMI bios, which you can now add to the list. That last posting about the bug, on June 5th of this year, claims "This bug was fixed in the package linux - 2.6.24-24.53".


So, the fix is two parts, Foxconn's patch of their bios, which Linux users are supposed to apply and hope it won't brick their computer, and the 2.6.24-24.53 kernel release, which is supposed to clear up the remaining troubles with the Foxconn bios. This assumes, of course, that new PCs containing the Foxconn bios have the patched version installed. Buyer beware.


Karmic is presently at the 2.6.31 kernel release, but if someone gets a hold of an MSI or AMI mobo with an unpatched bios then this kernel isn't going to help.


Currently, the one way to buy a new PC off the shelf and be sure it works is to take a LiveCD with you to the store and ask to be allowed to boot it, run it, and throughly test out everything you can. Or, better yet, visit one of the Linux PC dealers, like
http://www.zareason.com/shop/home.php

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

If you want good graphic fps rates avoid midrange Intel chips like the GM45, or you will be luck to get 50 fps.

Why would a mobile chipset be in my desktop computer? Did i misunderstand you?

The tip about Foxconn --- they are a BIOS supplier of which MSI is a major user. Becareful of mobos which have the MSI brand on them.

Thank you very much for the warning. Do you have specific recommendations for Linux friendly motherboards and BIOS-es to add?

I have updated the first post of this thread with the list of components I am currently looking at, although it is only CPU and RAM for now. The graphics card issue is getting hairy because of all the possible complications no matter which one I choose, so your input is greatly appreciated.

[Chopstick]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

I think the i7 920 is by far the best value. If money matters... (it usually does...) I recommend investing in two monitors and a good keyboard instead ;-) (if you are coding), or a better GPU (if you are gaming).

RAM is good. I have the same. Remember that i7 CPUs want triple channel RAM, but your selection is fine. You need a 64bit system if you want to address more than 4GB of RAM, that is correct (because of the Memory address length).

Motherboard: I have the Asus Rampage 2 Gene. Its a MiniATX board but that does not matter much. It suits my needs perfectly, is good value, and I have no problems with kubuntu 9.04 so far (since mid-June). (Caveat: the Mini-Installer-CD (30MB) does not have the correct ethernet driver, so you need the standard CD-iso for 700MB)

Video: I have a GeForce 9400GT which works just fine, but if you are a gamer, you probably need more. Some of my friends and colleages have state-of-the-art ATI cards and have a lot of problems with that!

Hope that helps...
- Chopstick

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

This issue of a video card is a serious one. It generally falls to either Intel, ATI or an NVidia chip.
Many complain about the ATI but NVidia is in serious trouble for hiding defects in several of their chip series. The plaintiffs behind five lawsuits – brought by owners of Apple, Dell, and Hewlett-Packard laptops affected by the design flaw in certain Nvidia mobile GPUs – have agreed to join forces and seek class action status in an attempt to force Nvidia to address the issue once and for all. If they lose the class action suit filed against them it could put them out of business. They posted a $201.3M loss last quarter.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...class-action/1

Others are suing too:

http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-...hics-chips-439

Even as recently as a couple weeks ago owners of Sony VAIOs were reporting problems with NVidia chips:
http://www.itworld.com/hardware/7432...y-nvidia-chips

Fortunately, the SONY VAIO I am using is a VGN-FW, which is not on the list because it has an Intel GM45 chip.

Why would a mobile chipset be in my desktop computer? Did i misunderstand you?

The operative word there is "LIKE" a GM45. In other words, a midrange chip.

The NVidia 9600m gt is reported to be causing widespread problems in Apple Macbook Pro's and Ace

So is HP: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/HP-...sues,7669.html

I wouldn't use an NVidia chip at 9600 or below.

I'm just thankful my Sony VAIO had an Intel chip in it.

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

I think the i7 920 is by far the best value.

I really want my CPU to kick ass, but paying 3 times as much for less than 1 GHz increase seems absurd. I don't want to be forced to upgrade in 3 years, like I am now because my current machine came with a cheap processor.

Remember that i7 CPUs want triple channel RAM, but your selection is fine.

The RAM I chose is triple channel according to the sellers page. Is the seller lying? Is there better performing RAM out there for the i7?

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Also, most desktops are dual core now, meaning that they are 64bit. When you install Kubuntu install the 64bit version. You'll get a 10-20% performance increase right off the bat.

I got in the habit of running the 32bit version of the distros I tried because the 64bit support was poor. It's not now. With the ia32 libraries you can run 32bit apps without problems. The increase in file access, video performance, etc., is worth the upgrade to 64bit.

For example, on 32 bit SecondLife 3D environments rotate like an old silent movie, on 64bit the 3D environments rotate smoothly. On 32bit TORCS is unusable. On 64bit it is smooth and fun to play. ETC...

[Chopstick]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Quote from: Chopstick on Today at 07:42:29 pm
Remember that i7 CPUs want triple channel RAM, but your selection is fine.

The RAM I chose is triple channel according to the sellers page. Is the seller lying? Is there better performing RAM out there for the i7?

Apologies if I was not clear, but I did not mean to criticize your selection! It's triple channel and it's fast enough - if you are not seriously overclocking it's all that you need! I have the same, as I said, and I'm happy!

I'm also running the 64bit version and after some work I got everything (including Flash!) working. There is no reason not to go for 64bit. The only thing I've noticed is that the GUI/IDE of Matlab is somewhat slow, which, according to some forum posts, is a 64bit-related issue (but you can still run the 64bit GUI).

As I said before, I have a (relatively cheap) GeForce 9400GT and it is working fine, I have no issues.

@ GreyGeek: do you mean to say that there will be a lot of trouble ahead with driver support for nVidia? Or how do nVidias business struggles affect us as users?

[Chopstick]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

For your convenience and for reference, if you have any trouble getting multimedia stuff working with a 64 bit system, follow this thread (in ubuntu forums):

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=766683


Chopstick

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

@ GreyGeek: do you mean to say that there will be a lot of trouble ahead with driver support for nVidia? Or how do nVidias business struggles affect us as users?

If NVidia goes out of business or more than the $500M it has lost so far, and the lawsuits have just begun, it could mean layoffs and reduced services and support. With no coders writing Linux driver binaries for their new chips it could take months or longer for developers to reverse engineer the chips in "green rooms".

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

I have updated the first post in this thread with the components I am thinking about right now. Much progress has been made, but I still haven't nailed down the motherboard and video card.

GreyGeek, I want you to know that I take your warnings about nVidia seriously. Unfortunately I can't seem to figure out which cards are affected.

Is Kubuntu going to work well with these components? Any recommendations?

[GreyGeek]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Avoid MSI mobos that use Foxconn's BIOS for reasons previously mentioned. MSI, knowing that their Foxconn BIOSs sent Linux to random crash land still claimed that users were returning Linux PCs 4 to 1 over Windows.

[Telengard]

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer? (Preliminary picks)

Avoid MSI mobos that use Foxconn's BIOS for reasons previously mentioned. MSI, knowing that their Foxconn BIOSs sent Linux to random crash land still claimed that users were returning Linux PCs 4 to 1 over Windows.

But what about the components I picked?