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**lmilano** · Aug 22, 2009, 08:47 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Hi,

I bought a new computer 6 months ago, with similar expectations. I always shop for value. With the phenom line, AMD is back in the game and give muchbetter value, so I got an X3. Right now the quads are much cheaper, worth the extra buck. For pure performance, Intel hands down.

Graphics: I got integrated ATI graphics (HD3200). Now HD3300 is around, and it is even better. NVIDIA has more robust binary driver support, but ATI is building Open Source drivers, so I decided to go for an IGP for now, and buy a dedicated ATI card whenever the 3D Support is usable for end users (my guess is 6 months for now). In the meantime, HD video, games, it all works (on a 17inch monitor)

Today, I would buy AM3 Phenom, DDR3 for sure, HD3300, and avoid Foxconn for the mobo at all costs (they screwed Linux in their BIOS, see the reports in Launchpad)

64 bit: it's a no brainer, PLEASE do yourself a favor and use it. You get better performance and everything works (including native 64bit flash). See my posts (and Dibl's) in the 64 bit forum. In particular, I have a post where I discuss this very topic (64 vs 32)

Guess I am talkative today, cheers!

**Telengard** · Aug 22, 2009, 11:21 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Hi lmilano,

Originally posted by lmilano

I bought a new computer 6 months ago, with similar expectations. I always shop for value. With the phenom line, AMD is back in the game and give muchbetter value, so I got an X3. Right now the quads are much cheaper, worth the extra buck. For pure performance, Intel hands down.

So I should choose Intel for better performance? If I read you correcty, you chose AMD for reasons of cost. I'm more interested in performance. My current single core CPU is being pushed to its breaking point by the demands I'm placing on it. I'm willing to spend more money to put my new machine ahead of the obsolescence curve. Will Intel do it for me?

Originally posted by lmilano

Graphics: I got integrated ATI graphics (HD3200). Now HD3300 is around, and it is even better. NVIDIA has more robust binary driver support

Which one will work reliably without me having to configure modules or fiddle with xorg, and perform well for games and HD movies? I like the idea of ATI making open source drivers, but you seem to imply they are not ready for end users. I definitely want to avoid problems in video performance and compatibility.

Originally posted by lmilano

Today, I would buy AM3 Phenom, DDR3 for sure, HD3300, and avoid Foxconn for the mobo at all costs (they screwed Linux in their BIOS, see the reports in Launchpad)

Wait , what? I will certanly look for these, but some links would help a lot. Thank you for warning me against Foxconn.

Originally posted by lmilano

In particular, I have a post where I discuss this very topic (64 vs 32)

Again, some links would help. I will certainly look for your posts.

Thanks very much for your reply. Please do post again with more details if you have the time.

Does anyone else have advice, or experience to share?

**lmilano** · Aug 23, 2009, 07:06 AM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Hi

This is the forum I meant, sorry I didn't have the time yesterday:
http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?board=106.0

Foxconn:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...pi/+bug/363868
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/251338
http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums....d.php?t=869249

CPU: a Phenom X4 would have amazing raw power, don't get me wrong. It will probably be 10 times faster than your current CPU in multithreaded programs. Especially if you go for DDR3. Intel can give you 50 to 70% more performance at, perhaps, 300% times the cost (or the CPU) at the very high level. I just checked where I bought my base system:

http://www.portatech.com/25350/Produ...th_AMD_CPU.htm
http://www.portatech.com/25351/Produ..._Intel_CPU.htm

Just look at prices per speed rating. Things are more even now than when I bought. This must be the Intel I7 (which kicks a** and not shown here) pushing the other Intels down, and also the success of the phenom pushing in the same direction. AMD is still better value at leasat with these folks, but not by scandal as 6 months ago. DDR3 is a must I think (I didn't get it because it was still a bit pricey)

Graphics: what games do you plan to play? At what resolutions? All the games my son plays are ok with the Integrated Graphics on our foxconn (ATI HD 3200). If you get an IGP, I would wait a bit before buying a card and see if you need it.

NVIDIA vs ATI. Both provide official binary drivers. They both work great, but the NVIDIA are more likely (though not guaranteed) to just work. On the other hand, Open Source drivers are a lot better (easier to support, supported out of the box, more stable, etc). NVIDIA has refused to provide specs to their hardware, so open source drivers (Noveau project) are being developed in the dark. ATI is releasing specs but also helping the development of opensource drivers. There is already 3D support in some synthetic cases, but real world support may be finished within 6 months or so (see Phoronix for continuous updates on this).

This is why _I_ built a system around AMD/ATI, with an IGP running the binary drivers for now (they work very easily in 8.10 but I had to sweat to get them to work in 9.04 -- I almost bough an inexpensive Nvidia card to get through, but it wasn't necessary). Whenever the OpenSource driver are finsihed, I will get a largre monitor and an ATI PCIe card to clebrate, and vote with my wallet, again.

Feel free to post more thoughts, I love to discuss HW

**Ole Juul** · Aug 23, 2009, 03:26 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

I will be buying a new computer sometime in the next few weeks, and I want to make sure it will work flawlessly with Kubuntu.

Are you able to specify all the parts? I once bought an off-the-shelf computer and have regretted it ever since - I'll certainly never buy a brand name unit again. IMHO you get much better value or quality by building you own. Besides, then you usually save on at least some parts like the PS, box, and optical drives.

One thing that was of concern to me last time I bought parts was thermal performance, because I moved to a place that gets pretty hot in the summer. Using good parts I am able to get along with only one case fan without any problems in 100°F (much hotter in the box) weather.

I am thinking of getting a quad-core processor and more than 4 gigabytes of RAM.

32 bit only supports 4 GB RAM. You'll need 64 bit to utilize more.

Are there any other possible problems or important choices with newer computers that I need to consider? For example, is SATA completely reliable in Kubuntu?

I have SATA on two machines which run Kubuntu 8.04 and Kubuntu 9.04. SATA was not supported by Debian a little while ago. I think all distros support SATA now. I have recently been looking at HD prices for a little project and IDE drives are very limited and mostly what appears to be old stock. For example, a large supplier that I like to use carries hundreds of drives and has only 3 listings for IDE! Non SATA druves are also generally more expensive. My thought is go with SATA and you will not run into pricey problems later on.

Make sure that the chip has decent support. Some are a bit iffy. If sound is important to you, research it thoroughly.

Last year I was introduced

to an internal USB card reader problem. From my reading, it would appear that some cheap brands have less than stellar support. They're a relatively cheap item, so you can always replace it. I'm just giving you a heads up. /2¢

**TuxLove** · Aug 23, 2009, 04:34 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

I recently built a machine containing the following;

Intel Core i7 CPU
3x2GB RAM
NVidia GeForce 9800GT graphics card

Reasoning:

Intel chips have a performance edge at the higher end
Intel has more active Linux support (see Moblin, etc.)
I've had hassles with ATI graphics drivers in the past but none with NVidia

After installing 9.04 and adding the non-free NVidia native driver, everything works fine -- including wireless.

**sithlord48** · Aug 23, 2009, 04:45 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

i recently built the following (a few months ago)

mobo: asus m4a79 deluxe (cpu socket is both am2+ and am3 meaning when i get a am3 chip i can use ddr3 ram)
4 gb (4x1gb) ddr2 @ 1066 mhz
amd phenom II x4 940 BE(unlocked clock) @ 3.0 ghz
ati raideon HD 4850 512MB (ddr5) pciexpress2 card (came w/ the mobo)

everything is working wonderfully w/ 9.04 althought the ati video driver did take a bit of tweaking to get working, it seams the ati drivers are becoming much more linux friendly every day.

**Telengard** · Aug 23, 2009, 07:31 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Originally posted by lmilano

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?board=106.0

I found a couple of interesting threads in 8.04 Hardy Heron -> 64 Bit Processor Support too.
[*]Potential New 64-bit System. Please Comment[*]Kubuntu for Intel Core 2 Duo?

I've been able to gather some facts (or misconceptions) from the 64 bit discussions I've read so far:
[*]The 64 bit kernel is required to fully use 4 gigabytes RAM or more.[*]Everyone seems to agree that the 64 bit kernel is faster in general, and just as reliable.[*]Most packages are not yet optimized for 64 bit (do they use some kind of wrapper code?), but would perform better if they were.

Originally posted by lmilano

CPU: a Phenom X4 would have amazing raw power
. . .
Intel can give you 50 to 70% more performance at, perhaps, 300% times the cost
. . .
This must be the Intel I7 (which kicks a** and not shown here)
. . .

I am now even more persuaded to give Intel's I7 serious consideration, paired with probably 8 gigabytes DDR3. I'll have to find a motherboard that allows these components to perform the best they possibly can.

Originally posted by lmilano

Graphics: what games do you plan to play? At what resolutions?

My monitor's native resolution is 1920 x 1080. If I end up getting a cheap IGP, then I want it to work perfectly out of the box without me having to configure anything. Otherwise I will have to look more closely at which graphics card will provide the best performance for my needs. I'll make a rough list of the applications I expect to be using at the end of this post.

You are really pushing ATI I can tell. Why would I care about open source drivers if they don't provide access to all the features of my graphics chip? I suppose waiting 6 months for 3D acceleration might be acceptable, but only if the driver will work and integrate flawlessly with my existing system. I have never had to tinker with video drivers on Linux before, and I do not want to have to sweat to get it to work. Is that too much to ask?

Thank you again for sharing all this information. I am confident that my research will be well guided by all your advice.

Applications I anticipate using heavily:
[*]DOSBox[*]VirtualBox[*]Emulators for various computers and consoles[*]Wine[*]Doom 3[*]Quake 4[*]StarCraft II (yes please!)[*]par2cmdline[*]7-Zip[*]SMPlayer[*]Adobe Flash Player[*]Java[*]Firefox[*]Eclipse[*]aMule

**Ole Juul** · Aug 23, 2009, 08:25 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

The 64 bit kernel is required to fully use 4 gigabytes RAM or more.

The way I understand it, that is generally true - but there is a lot more to it. It sounds like 4 GB is actually the limit for each individual process on a mother board with MMU. Apparently the PAE (physical address extension) kernel also allows more address space. I know very little about this though. There is a good feature on Kernel Trap which explains a lot: http://kerneltrap.org/node/2450?page=1

**sithlord48** · Aug 24, 2009, 10:06 AM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

oh no no , i am not trying to push ne thing.. ati or nvidia, its all good, right now the nvidia drivers are better for linux , but then again me personally i have not had issues with the ati card (since i have installed there driver and tweaked xorf.conf abit) then again i don't really run to many games, compiz works and i can play ff7 with compiz on so i am happy

.

**sxeptomaniac** · Aug 24, 2009, 01:47 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

I run 64-bit Kubuntu on the desktop I built. It's been a great out-of-the-box experience, and hasn't given me any trouble.

Motherboard: ASUS M4A79 Deluxe AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard
Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor
Video: ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16

It even ran SimCity 4 really nicely under WINE, which I hadn't had success with before.

**lmilano** · Aug 24, 2009, 02:54 PM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Telenguard:

* I wasn't trying to push ATI either, I just give you the facts, in the short run Nvidia will give you a smoother ride, and in the long run ATI will for the reasons above; you decide

* I think you'll be better off with Nvidia for what I hear, but for the record, the ATI card will have excellent 3D video NOW, not in six month, with the binary driver (the opensource driver is the one still lacking that)

* I think you are thinking of buying a top of the line computer, if that's so i7 is the thing

* My reasoning for buying hardware is that staying a bit one bit behind the curve I always spend a fraction of the cost (around 30% or less) of the top of the line for comparable (but less) performance

* Memory: I would consider 6Gb DDR3 in triple channel (rather than 8Gb) for better performance

* Graphics: you definitely need a dedicated card for what you need (at that resolution the games will not cut it)

* If you want the machine to last long, as stated originally, I think a GPU with 1Gb GDDR4 or 5 would be nice to stay current for the next two to three years; there are some beautiful PCIe 20 cards for around 150 bucks, check the buying guides in Tom's hardware

* Make sure you get a 650Watts or so PSU

**Telengard** · Aug 25, 2009, 02:35 AM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Thanks everyone for your endorsements. It does not seem pratical to respond individually to everyone, but I want you to know that I am reading the articles you link and looking up the hardware you mention.

Right now I am contemplating the CPU and memory shown in this article. By all accounts Intel's i7 family is the choice for performance, but I wonder whether I should try to get something even better than the 920.

I have not made much progress on the video card yet.

**lmilano** · Aug 25, 2009, 06:23 AM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

Excellent; for video cards, the best starting point I have found on the net is this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...card,2387.html

**Chopstick** · Aug 26, 2009, 10:25 AM

Re: What CPU and video for a new computer?

I essentially got the same system as TuxLove, only I went for a GeForce 9400GT as I'm not doing any graphics intensive stuff. Everything works perfectly, had absolutly no issues. I'm also using two monitors, which works just fine with the nvidia software (proprietary though).

If you get an Intel i7 you should absolutely go for DDR3/Triple Channel RAM.

As for the PSU: most people will recommend getting a super high powered PSU. It kinda depends on what you are doing. Not everyone needs that. Actually video cards eat up most of the power. I'm using a PSU rated for 430W and everything is working perfectly fine. The CPU itself only uses some 130W at max.
Just make sure the PSU is tested for safety so it doesn't blow up and damages other equipment.

If you are a gamer you probably need a better PSU than I have, but I'm only doing number crunching (i.e. what computers were originally intended for

).

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