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    Fighting the Good Fight

    Recently the company I work for (one of the big office supply chains in the US) set up a pretty little feedback form on our internal website to allow employees to make suggestions in hopes of building business and making the company more cost effective. One day I wrote a long piece running over a few ideas all at once, included within this long list of things was the question of why we didn't offer Linux on *any* of the computers we sold, be it in the store or on the website. It took them a little bit, but they got back to me. Here's my original submission:

    Why do we not carry any Linux/Open Source computers? Why do we ASSUME that windows is the best solution for all of our customers? Please look into offering more options to meet our customers' computer and technology needs. Linux is starting to be a serious competitor in the desktop, laptop and netbook space, and has long been a dominating presence in the service space. Why are we only offering Windows?

    Also, consider the possibility for {our company's extended service plan} attachment on a Linux laptop. Our plans include accidental damage, a big concern for a laptop. There is not a manufactures warranty that will cover that, and Linux users are often left out in the cold for protection on their hardware because a lot of vendors will play the game of not being willing to help their customers simply because the customer installed an alternate OS. Even Dell, which is probably the biggest computer vendor that offers proper Linux support, will only include the accidental damage protection for the length of the extended *software* support that is not only way over priced, but includes all sorts of extras that someone primarily looking for *hardware* support and coverage will not need.
    This is the response I received back from them:

    Thank you for submitting your idea about carrying Linux/Open Source computers. We have decided not to carry these products in our stores because of the high industry return rate. Even Best Buy discontinued selling these computers because of the returns. Shoppers who purchase these machines return them more often than other computers, and the high rate of return leads to dissatisfied customers and a decrease in revenue. However, we are constantly evaluating the products we carry as industry trends shift.
    This response that quotes Best Buy (one of the worst retail stores I've stepped foot in, shy of perhaps Wal-mart) as a reason to support not selling Linux computer options is a response that needs to be squashed with facts and logic. I have started searching Google for news articles that provide useful information to support my desire to see my employer realize that Windows is not the only solution worthy of our customers, nor is it the best solution. I'd even be willing to concede that perhaps the retail locations might not be ready to sell Linux solutions to our customer base. This is certainly not due to a lack of quality of the Linux solutions, but instead due to a lack of education on the part of the average person. However, all that said, why are all the *server* computer options we sell Windows only? That's a market that has an established satisfaction rate in the Linux space... numerous corporate websites run off of Linux based servers.

    Also, by their very own logic, we should not be selling netbooks at all, given the high return rate on all netbook products. A lot of consumers buy netbooks thinking they're getting a highly portable machine that can do everything a standard notebook can, and find out that if it's running Windows, they can barely web surf due to all the extra software needed to maintain and protect the netbook eating up the precious few resources the small machine has. It doesn't matter much anyways, as our return policy on netbooks and computers is very very restrictive. We only take back computers of any sort if they've still got their original factory seal, within a small window of time from the original purchase date. We'll *exchange* an open defective computer for one of the same model, also within the small return window. Everything past that requires the customer to go back to the manufacture unless the customer purchased the extended coverage option. I've had customers walk away from purchasing a laptop due to the restrictiveness of the return policy, so this further makes their above argument about the high return rate a little silly. We already frustrate our customer base with our return policy.

    Anyone have any suggestions on what else I can tell my employer to at least make them consider offering some open source and Linux computers via special order or our website? Given the trends on pricing with Linux computers via other sources, like Dell where Windows kickbacks undercut the savings of not having to pay the Windows tax on the Linux machines, I don't believe we'll get too many stupid customers buying a Linux machine by accident unless it happens to end up on sale, and given my employer's reluctance to sell Linux machines to start with, I highly doubt they'll go on sale.

    #2
    Re: Fighting the Good Fight

    well that was an eye opener on how the corporate world treats linux.
    but to your question on what to say to your employers i have no idea.

    but please keep on fighting

    hail kubuntu long live linux

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Fighting the Good Fight

      Honestly, I have no idea how anyone can make a buck selling computers -- I know I tried it and failed back in the early 1990s when the business still seemed to have some potential to turn a profit.

      I would suspect that folks wandering into a big box store with the intent to buy a computer are perhaps the very least tech-savvy computer users of all -- but that's just my unsubstantiated assertion. If it's anywhere near the truth, then these are the folks least capable of discerning the difference between a hardware failure, a software failure, or a user failure. A lot of their "technical support" is likely to come from their family and friends ... and you know which OS will be the frame of reference there .... :P

      So, I guess my thought is, if it were me selling a box with Kubuntu as the OS, as a matter of self-defense I would require that they attend a 4-hour in-store training session, and demonstrate that they know how to do the most common operations that they want to do, before I would turn them loose with a computer that had MY name on the warranty. Just to minimize the early returns. And the cost of that training would have to be recovered through the price of the sale. And I don't teach cheaply ....

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Fighting the Good Fight

        Perhaps I'm a skeptic, about businesses, but I don't believe too much that any big business says. The real reason may be as simple as they have an agreement with M$, but the reason they give you is something that someone totally invented, to at least sound feasible, maybe, if you don't think much about it.

        Linux is stable, reliable, secure and free, not to mention upgradeable with a huge choice of software packages and useful forums all included in the price.

        Your employer may be reluctant to offer computers with Linux, in case M$ complained (it doesn't want the competition), also your employer may be concerned about having staff with the technical knowledge to answer questions about Linux and the provide after sales support.

        Linux offers great choices. If customers see a few machines running different distros for the various categories of users, they are more likely to be impressed and can see what suits their particular needs. If they can't see what's available, then it will be difficult to choose.
        HP Compaq nc6400, 2Gi, 100Gi, ATI x1300 with 512M

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Fighting the Good Fight

          dibl:
          Honestly speaking, the way to make money selling computers is not on the computer itself, it's on all the things that go into the sale next to the computer. For example, the case to carry it in, the wireless mouse because the track pad sucks, the extra power adapter to leave in the desk at work, the "oops, I spilled coffee on it" replacement plan, and the software on the windows machines (anti-virus, office suite, games, remote setup assistance for networking, printer, digital camera, etc), just to name a few.

          I know of a lot of people who get mad when retailers try to sell them these things when they go into the store to buy stuff, but honestly speaking... how many people consider how much it costs to rent the space the store occupies, under pay the indentured servants^W^W sales associates, pay the utilities that allow them to call and ask us inane questions that are better answered by Google or coming into the store and fondling our displays, to hide from the heat and enjoy our air conditioning, to power all the endless amounts of useless gadgets we have to have on display in order to sell, pay people to clean up the bathrooms when they leave them a mess after not even bothering to buy anything, etc. The laptop sale can't pay my paycheck, but the accessories I sell along side it (printer, ink, paper, replacement plan, etc) do pay my pay check.

          That said, if I had the time, and could get paid doing it, I'd happily sit down with each customer I sold a Linux machine to, and make sure they're comfortable using it before they left the store. I also know how much it sucks to be the family tech support, and use this as a sales pitch for our computer support services. I don't care if the customer's son/daughter/neighbor/pool boy can install his wireless network for free, even if she's capable of doing it right (which while entirely possible, is highly unlikely to be the case with *every* customer I talk to), I can guarantee that it annoys her to do it for him. I honestly don't even care if the customer uses my company's service or not, I just want them to actually compensate the person doing the work for their time properly.

          kevinc:
          I am trying to give my employer the benefit of the doubt, as overall they've treated me better than my previous retail job did. They have their short comings, every chain retailer in the US has some problem, but overall they've generally made better efforts to take care of me as an employee than I've seen. That's not talking about the manager of my store directly, but I am not going to talk about him on this board.

          I can understand the being concerned with training employees to be knowledgeable enough to effectively sell Linux solutions to customers. The training efforts I've encountered have been pretty decent within the company, but the technology area is painfully lacking. Even though I've stepped away from being a sales floor person, instead deciding I want to be a printing department person, I still end up having to help customers with networking, printers and software because other employees on the sales floor just don't care or don't seem capable of grasping the information needed to effectively help customers in these areas. I try to teach the information I know to others, but when I try to help them over the radios we wear while working, instead of walking over and taking over the sale for them (as I'm usually trying to do something in my department at the time this happens), they won't answer my questions and relay the information I've given them to the customer. This leaves me frustrated to the point that I start seeing great big bulls eyes on the wall where I wish to apply my forehead forcefully and repeatedly.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Fighting the Good Fight

            Well...

            I feel the main reason for returns of Linux computers is the way they were sold, with insufficient information (non!) followed by lacking support (non again!).

            Of course proper up-front information could limit the numbers sold, yet it will surely decrease the return rate and if I were the customer probably open a new market.

            But this all requires an investment in the sales drones and that sounds bad to any CFO, I mean an investment.

            Making a business model around support would be a paradigm shift for those same people, selling MS is sooo easy as there is no alternative right?
            Especially when they continue on this path.

            Low hanging fruit and all that.

            But the fruit rots when left for too long

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Fighting the Good Fight

              so the real problem is that ur co-workers aren't capable of caring for the customers, and it would not be easy for ur employer to get some that do (investments, firering, hirering)

              but there are many machines that come whit a gnu linux as default like this one

              http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=HNEvKsN2vRhGiYZO (just an example)

              some days ago a friend came to me with this machine and said he wanted and xp in it because he didn't get linux so i printed him some info and explanations and now hes very happy using it and said it was really easy to use and he was just scared of the new stuff lol

              i refute what kevinc say about people being to dumb (not exact words but kinda ) most people are just afraid or scared of new things or things they dont understand but after u give them a short intro and see how easy it is
              their ego gets hurt because they feel dumb and buy it anyway

              the only way of convincing ur employer would be to show them how easy it is to use a linux machine

              u have to buy software licenses before selling it to the customer right?
              so if they would use linux they wont have to and so make some saving not buying licences for the software

              the only way i see to convince ur employers would be showing them what they will save by selling them

              this is just an idea but u could profit from it
              make special linux section where customers could try linux out before buying
              (i know that's hard work and cleaning is an issue) but there u could post the "instructions for linux using"
              and u become head of the department and so avoid the walki-helping-not telling-issue
              but surely im just rambling here 8)

              keep up the good fight

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Fighting the Good Fight

                The problem with the special Linux area idea is that I work for a big box retailer. This means someone who works in a corporate office decides how the store is laid out, and this person only steps foot in a real store maybe once a year or so to scare the low level peons into doing everything expected of them, despite never having enough time allocated to them to do these things except for when the Store Managers are informed there is a pending inspection coming. If I worked for an independent computer store, setting up a section to properly inform customers and spread the word would probably be easy enough, I certainly have enough passion to sell the concept to someone on letting me try it.

                The problem with my coworkers isn't necessarily that they don't want to care for the customers, but they're under paid for the job they do... and they don't have the passion for gathering information that most people on this board have (as made clear by the fact we're trying and/or regularly using an OS that does not have mainstream support). So they see it as "Oh, Death Kitten knows this stuff, it's better service to the customer to just let her talk to them" instead of "It may take a little longer to help this customer today if I listen to what Death Kitten is trying to teach me so I can help the customer myself, but I'll be able to help the next customer even if Death Kitten isn't working". Even in the craptastic economy we're in right now, replacing them with people who have a thirst for knowledge still isn't an easy task, especially when our store manager is not the knowledge seeker sort, but instead the sort of sales person that makes the customer base not trust the rest of us.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Fighting the Good Fight

                  well u really confirmed and expanded my first thoughts about ur co-workers and the issues involving them
                  so there is no point fixing that issue because it depends on economy and corporate policies.

                  and the special linux section was just an idea not really a solution but i loved that u really would do it if it was up to you

                  but u didn't give me your thoughts on the software licences and saving some money for ur employers
                  i believe that any ceo is interested in saving some money
                  and maybe a simpler solution to convincing some customers into buying machines whit a linux os
                  like i helped my friend to feel more comfortable whit linux

                  cheers

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Fighting the Good Fight

                    Most users who step into a brick'n'mortar store looking for a computer have no idea what they are looking at. Does that make them stupid? No, it makes them indecisive or uninformed. They have a certain image of what they think a computer will do for them and just swoop down on some package deal because the box inside the package is supposed to do photos well, or internet well, or write letters well, or some other thing well.

                    They get it, they open it, and are either immediately enthralled or immediately turned off. What they see is maybe sort of like what they were expecting, but once into it, they have no clue what they are doing. Or they realize how much they've actually spent, once they buy the software that didn't originally come with the package deal, and just live with it. Part of that expectation is what they've seen in TV ads or magazines. When they see a machine sporting Linux, or even Mac, they are lost ("Hey that's not the computer I saw in the ad."). Stuff comes back to the store. No matter how well, or how poorly the sales people are trained, stuff comes back. No matter how many machines sitt on the store shelves, turned on so people can play with them, stuff comes back. In the case of Linux, or Mac, it looks even stranger and they don't feel like they can get over that particular hump.

                    Not everyone is so easily confounded, I know that as a Linux user for the better part of 15 - 16 years. But, the ones who are more likely to explore something new, or something that doesn't quite meet their expectations, are also the ones who build their own machines, or take an old box and make it into something that has their mark on it.

                    When stuff comes back to a store, the company loses money on that "open box" item, or at least doesn't make as much. Retailers are not in business to make minimal profits, they have to satisfy investors. So retailers get rid of the strange or unusual that doesn't sell well to begin with or is just another return. Not their fault. I appreciate that Best Buy at least tried to sell Asus netbooks with Linux. I also understand why they don't now. It's all marketing, and not a conspiracy. It's not Best Buy that gets the really deep discounts from Redmond, it's the machine builders.

                    Someday, when my ancient warrior heads off to Valhalla, I'll buy another machine. It might be a thrift shop special, or it might be a Best Buy or Office Depot offering. Either way, it will within a matter of a few hours be sporting my choice of OS and apps, and not the Sleepy, Dopey, or Grumpy OS and related apps from the state of Washington.
                    The next brick house on the left
                    Intel i7 11th Gen | 16GB | 1TB | KDE Plasma 5.27.11​| Kubuntu 24.04 | 6.8.0-31-generic



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