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    intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

    Dudes,

    I recently updated from hardy to intrepid to get the new gcc 4.3 which wasn't available. Since I needed it I figured rather than mess with the repositories, just to the dist upgrade. What a mistake! I have to say this is the most dissapointed I have been with a distro since FC3! Never has kubuntu F'd up like this, on this scale.

    The new KDE is a massive step back from KDE 3 in terms of functionality!

    I use my work station for development, and anything that reduces productivity is a no no. Ex. the task bar in KDE 4.1 doesn't stack instances of the same app. That little feature has becomes a necesseity I can't live without. I at least have have 4+ kdev iinstances a couple of konsoles, a thunderbird, a firefox, and any number of instances of the apps I work on open. they quickly pile up when I'm debugging, and that lost "close all" task bar context menu is sorely missed. To make matters worse the app switching effect - you know the i-tunes like one- is slooow the default animation speed is 200 ms way too slow, and besides you have to examine each window once it stops moving to see if its the one you want. the old KDE 3 way of popping up a list, where you can quickly see if alt-tab is faster or alt-shift-tab is faster and quickly figure how many of them you need to land on the right window without looking at each one, is brilliant. On top of that the effects largely suck. When I use the task bar to switch apps for example I see trashed pixels as the window expands in its new and improved animated restoration.come on! If your going to do something do it well! I found the new K menu to be harder to use than the old, at least slower to find where all the things I need got moved to, and when I went to change it to the old style by right click, the K menu died! restarting x didn't help, I had to wipe my .kdesetting folder. And by the way what happened to adept manager? The new one's search is all screwed up, come one! that's essential! And what about about ksettings network setting panel? Apparently you can't set you network up there anymore, WTF! In like 1 hour I went to the happiest most devoted kubuntu user to the most irate, and I'm still more than a little ripped.

    conclusion the fancy animation and transparent windows don't do squat for me. I'm all for them IF they are done right, and IF I didn't have to sacrifice crucial functionality. I seriously hop intrepid is the SHORTEST lived ubuntu ever, and the next generation better be better.



    #2
    Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

    Originally posted by santana
    Ex. the task bar in KDE 4.1 doesn't stack instances of the same app. That little feature has becomes a necesseity I can't live without.
    This is fixed in KDE 4.2.

    To make matters worse the app switching effect - you know the i-tunes like one- is slooow the default animation speed is 200 ms way too slow, and besides you have to examine each window once it stops moving to see if its the one you want. the old KDE 3 way of popping up a list, where you can quickly see if alt-tab is faster or alt-shift-tab is faster and quickly figure how many of them you need to land on the right window without looking at each one, is brilliant. On top of that the effects largely suck. When I use the task bar to switch apps for example I see trashed pixels as the window expands in its new and improved animated restoration.come on!
    Nobody's forcing you to use desktop effects. If you don't like them, don't use them!

    conclusion the fancy animation and transparent windows don't do squat for me. I'm all for them IF they are done right, and IF I didn't have to sacrifice crucial functionality. I seriously hop intrepid is the SHORTEST lived ubuntu ever, and the next generation better be better.
    Good luck with that. KDE4 is here to stay, and is improving with each release. If KDE3 is your thing, I suggest you install Debian 5.
    # make install --not-war

    Comment


      #3
      Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

      Nobody's forcing you to use desktop effects. If you don't like them, don't use them!
      Right but my point is, if they are not working right then they shouldn't be the default. Come on people! Some of out here use this this stuff seriously, it's not just an experimental thing that we think is cool, we actually have come to rely on these apps and systems, and it becomes a major issue when the stuff doesn't work right.

      conclusion the fancy animation and transparent windows don't do squat for me. I'm all for them IF they are done right, and IF I didn't have to sacrifice crucial functionality. I seriously hop intrepid is the SHORTEST lived ubuntu ever, and the next generation better be better.
      Good luck with that. KDE4 is here to stay, and is improving with each release. If KDE3 is your thing, I suggest you install Debian 5.
      What I am saying is, I hope the next release is forthcoming (hence the phrase "shortest lived"). I am all for KDE4, what I think is a mistake is pushing it out in a major release when it's still in a "beta" state. I think the Kubuntu project has a responsibility to its user base to wait for KDE4 to become stable before unleashing it on us. If I wanted "beta" grade software I'd have the experimental repos activated.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

        How do you think someone using a previous version of Kubuntu, let's say Breezy (back to 2005), might have felt regarding 3.4.3?

        He or she might have thought something like you do now, some of them forgot about Kubuntu, some others stayed there and waited for newer update releases or for newer OS releases to check out if those newer versions were much better than the original one he had installed on his PC.

        I don't know if you experienced this, but I can tell you that I suffered while using Windows 95, I even wished to fall back to Win 3.11 if possible, but I also understood that some day no one would support it anymore. It was up to me to choose whether I'd upgrade to Win 95 or not. The same thing happened with Win 98... Well Win 98 SE was much better I must admit, more stable, it also had a few more options available, it sometimes ran some Win 95 apps... Even today there are many users that still use it on a daily or weekly basis...

        The point is that you're not the first one suffering because of some (serious) bugs in an OS or lack of useful apps you'd like to run on your system, but remember that if there was no one interested in using OS's like Kubuntu, no one would ever continue developing them after a while. The thing is that in real life there are always some enthusiasts (at least some of them) that might always push the programmers and designers a little so they might end up creating or fixing things they need to use or get fixed some day.
        Multibooting: Kubuntu Noble 24.04
        Before: Jammy 22.04, Focal 20.04, Precise 12.04 Xenial 16.04 and Bionic 18.04
        Win XP, 7 & 10 sadly
        Using Linux since June, 2008

        Comment


          #5
          Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

          I'm not so sure it is the same thing. KDE 3.5.x is a stable, and mature desktop environment. KDE4 is just recently beginning to become usable, and the most recent versions are not even in the release version.

          It is an interesting thing to consider. It is also the reason I often keep my main operating system for more than four years. As a side note, I am still running an old KDE 3.3 distribution as I do find it stable, and capable. Grouped taskbar buttons, Window Previews, Expose'/Kompose, good file management, etc..

          There is a guide for installing KDE 3.x on the Ubuntu Forums.
          http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums....d.php?t=963695

          It looks like getting it installed might be a bit of a chore, but possible none the less.
          The answers are out there...

          Comment


            #6
            Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

            Originally posted by santana
            What I am saying is, I hope the next release is forthcoming (hence the phrase "shortest lived"). I am all for KDE4, what I think is a mistake is pushing it out in a major release when it's still in a "beta" state. I think the Kubuntu project has a responsibility to its user base to wait for KDE4 to become stable before unleashing it on us. If I wanted "beta" grade software I'd have the experimental repos activated.
            I personally myself thought it's a mistake pushing KDE4 into 8.10 with no KDE3 Support.
            BUT
            I think it was a brave idea from KDEs' team.
            I think they wanted ppl to switch to KDE4 & give their feedback, the same way you are expressing your disappointment & giving your feedback about it.

            Also, it's always good to try the new OS from live CD before installing it.
            Because I use my desktop for my daily productive work, I left it alone (it has 8.04 installed) & installed 8.10 on my laptop, which was soo bad that I downloaded Ubuntu 8.10 & installed it instead.

            I've tried 9.04 Beta & I can say it's way better than 8.10, impressive work in 6 months.
            But tbh, I'm still hesitated about migrating my desktop from 8.04 to 9.04!

            Anyways, best of luck with your system & hope you get it fixed in the new release.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

              If a stable environment is important, then using the livecd to check things out, and even trying a test install, or even a virtual machine with a clone of your current setup for testing would have been a good idea.

              For me, my hardy to intrepid upgrade was the first successful version upgrade I had (going back to hoary hedghog 5.04,). My recent upgrade on my main desktop from Intrepid to Jaunty was even smoother.

              Intrepid, at least to some, was not a good release, but it was a necessary evil imo. We made the decision to go KDE4 then, and we had to stick by our guns. Now, nearly 6 months later, Jaunty will surprise a lot of folks.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

                Intrepid worked just fine for me -- far better than 8.04 + KDE 4.1. I just installed Jaunty Beta on Friday, and it is working just fine (well, except for printing).

                I don't honestly think there was any reasonable way to "ease into" KDE 4. KDE decided a long time ago they were doing a new version, and introducing a whole lot of new features and capabilities that don't have any backward counterpart in KDE 3.5. It's a new version, you can't expect to dabble in it with one foot while keeping the other foot in the prior version, unless you use two different installations to do it. Folks who are dead set on clinging to KDE 3.5.x should just stay with it, and whatever version of Linux they have it on. Heck, I'm clinging to Win XP on a VM, to run a proprietary MS Visual FoxPro database. I hope to never install a newer version of Windows, but I suppose I'll have to one day. You can only cling to the past for so long .....

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

                  The problem is that it isn't so easy. As another member has posted, once support for KDE 3.5.x was dropped in the newer distributions, and library files were no longer being backported to KDE 3.5.x distributions, some users were left with little or no choice.

                  I don't run a new OS in a VM, I test it in the actual conditions I'm going to be running it. A spare drive is irreplaceable for this. Since 2004, Kubuntu has been running off of the Test drive. with various different results.

                  I've kept a Debian Sarge based distribution (Xandros 3.02) as my main OS since that time.
                  The answers are out there...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: intrepid + KDE 4 = ??

                    In all honesty, if you don't wish to get "the latest and greatest" (which includes KDE4), on-the-edge distributions like Fedora or Kubuntu are not the best choices for you. You can get KDE3 with more "conservative" distributions like Slackware or Debian. There are also a number of distributions that wanted to give you both, like OpenSuse and Arch.

                    That's exactly why we have different distributions, so that people can pick the one that is the best fit for them. No distribution can fill everyone's needs.

                    I really don't see why every distribution should have just stuck with KDE3 until KDE4 was ready for every user...with different distributions jumping on KDE4 in their own timetable, it's a win-win situation for all. People who wanted KDE4 early could get it and test it to make it better for everyone, and more conservative users can keep with a KDE3 distribution until they feel they can get what they want from KDE4 (Debian Lenny was released in February so it's rather up-to-date, and still comes with KDE3).

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