This is an account of my trying to get a refund for a copy of Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition, that:
a) I did not want
b) I did not request
c) I do not (and will not) use
d) is totally unnecessary to operate the computer on which it was preinstalled
The statements of the various parties involved (Sony and Microsoft, above all) are interesting.
Nobody is responsible for nothing.
Neither Sony, nor Microsoft, let alone the poor retailer, are prepared to go by the EULA.
Digitec.ch even question the legal value of the Microsoft EULA in Switzerland.
The final customer is the only party that shall have to respect the EULA.
Whether or not s/he accepted it.
Basically, the customer is bound by a choice others have made in his/her place.
It would be funny, if it wasn't this sad.
It is of course not for the money.
It is for freedom of choice.
---
I have recently bought a Sony VAIO at digitec.ch (I live in Switzerland).
The laptop comes with Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition preinstalled (and included in the price).
I could not care less about running Microsoft Windows in general, let alone Windows Vista.
Had I had the option to buy the laptop without this piece of s...oftware, I would have surely done so.
But, as we all know, you just do not have...an option.
So, before turning the computer on, I downloaded the Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition EULA to see what is says about the (in)famous refund of the license cost.
Interestingly enough, the EULA that you can find on the Microsoft web site says in bold:
So, I contacted digitec.ch, the retailer where I bought the laptop.
digitec.ch replied to me as follows:
Understandable, is it not?
After all, what has the poor retailer to do with all this?
But I was certainly not to give up that easily.
So I turned the computer on and followed the (bloody long) procedure that got me to the EULA acceptance dialog, taking pictures along the way.
It is a dialog that presents the Microsoft EULA for acceptance, on the top, and the Sony EULA acceptance, on the botton.
Of course the text that was presented to me had nothing to do with the one published by Microsoft online.
Most notably, the word retailer got replaced by manufacturer or installer.
And all the ...If you cannot obtain a refund...contact Microsoft had gone.
The Microsoft EULA that was presented to me, thus, read (still in bold!):
At this point it is important to note 3 things:
a) there is no way for a user to actually refuse to accept the Microsoft EULA terms.
Users can only "not accept".
By not accepting, the configuration process cannot be completed.
At this point users that want to install a different operating system have to switch the computer off and on again.
b) the text of the EULA does not say whether it refers to the hardware or the software manufacturer/installer.
c) the text of the EULA does not leave the manufacturer/installer the option to refuse to refund.
It only says that you have to contact them to see how to return the software in order to obtain a refund.
It was time to contact Sony, then.
Sony replied to me as follows:
Of course.
I had a few things to object to this.
Of course I know the operating system is included the price, but I also know the EULA states I can get a refund.
I had a phone call with some people at Sony, who then put their position in writing, thus:
Now Sony's position was that this refund business is Microsoft's and not theirs.
Good enough to me!
I wrote an email to Microsoft explaining the situation.
Microsoft's reply is the following:
I had told the Sony guy that if Microsoft really meant to say "Microsoft" they would have written "Microsoft".
But as they wrote "manufacturer/installer", some surprise was sure to be expected.
So, I got back to Sony, who immediately (they must be mad at me, by now) got back to me with this:
I am considering other actions, of course.
Most notably: the text of the EULA does not offer (whoever is to refund this license) the option to refuse.
I have pointed that out to Sony.
I also provided them with a link to this post.
This is it, for now...
a) I did not want
b) I did not request
c) I do not (and will not) use
d) is totally unnecessary to operate the computer on which it was preinstalled
The statements of the various parties involved (Sony and Microsoft, above all) are interesting.
Nobody is responsible for nothing.
Neither Sony, nor Microsoft, let alone the poor retailer, are prepared to go by the EULA.
Digitec.ch even question the legal value of the Microsoft EULA in Switzerland.
The final customer is the only party that shall have to respect the EULA.
Whether or not s/he accepted it.
Basically, the customer is bound by a choice others have made in his/her place.
It would be funny, if it wasn't this sad.
It is of course not for the money.
It is for freedom of choice.
---
I have recently bought a Sony VAIO at digitec.ch (I live in Switzerland).
The laptop comes with Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition preinstalled (and included in the price).
I could not care less about running Microsoft Windows in general, let alone Windows Vista.
Had I had the option to buy the laptop without this piece of s...oftware, I would have surely done so.
But, as we all know, you just do not have...an option.
So, before turning the computer on, I downloaded the Microsoft Windows Vista Business Edition EULA to see what is says about the (in)famous refund of the license cost.
Interestingly enough, the EULA that you can find on the Microsoft web site says in bold:
...
By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, return it to the retailer for a refund or credit. If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft's refund policies. See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call (800) MICROSOFT of see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm.
...
By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, return it to the retailer for a refund or credit. If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft's refund policies. See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call (800) MICROSOFT of see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm.
...
digitec.ch replied to me as follows:
Dear Sir
We don't do this refunds.
The Agreement from Microsoft is based on American law.
It's not even clear if it applies in Switzerland.
You have to possibility to refuse to accept the EULA of Microsoft, but we cannot refund you the money for Windows Vista.
The reason is that the OS was been sold in a bundle with the notebook.
Many thanks for your interest in our products and services. We would be glad to answer any further questions that might arise.
Kind regards
We don't do this refunds.
The Agreement from Microsoft is based on American law.
It's not even clear if it applies in Switzerland.
You have to possibility to refuse to accept the EULA of Microsoft, but we cannot refund you the money for Windows Vista.
The reason is that the OS was been sold in a bundle with the notebook.
Many thanks for your interest in our products and services. We would be glad to answer any further questions that might arise.
Kind regards
After all, what has the poor retailer to do with all this?
But I was certainly not to give up that easily.
So I turned the computer on and followed the (bloody long) procedure that got me to the EULA acceptance dialog, taking pictures along the way.
It is a dialog that presents the Microsoft EULA for acceptance, on the top, and the Sony EULA acceptance, on the botton.
Of course the text that was presented to me had nothing to do with the one published by Microsoft online.
Most notably, the word retailer got replaced by manufacturer or installer.
And all the ...If you cannot obtain a refund...contact Microsoft had gone.
The Microsoft EULA that was presented to me, thus, read (still in bold!):
...
IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THE LICENSE YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE SOFTWARE
AND YOU SHOULD CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER OR THE INSTALLER TO OBTAIN INFORMATION
ON HOW TO RETURN THE SOFTWARE FOR THE PURPOSE OF OBTAINING A REFUND OF THE PRICE
...
IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THE LICENSE YOU SHOULD NOT USE THE SOFTWARE
AND YOU SHOULD CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER OR THE INSTALLER TO OBTAIN INFORMATION
ON HOW TO RETURN THE SOFTWARE FOR THE PURPOSE OF OBTAINING A REFUND OF THE PRICE
...
a) there is no way for a user to actually refuse to accept the Microsoft EULA terms.
Users can only "not accept".
By not accepting, the configuration process cannot be completed.
At this point users that want to install a different operating system have to switch the computer off and on again.
b) the text of the EULA does not say whether it refers to the hardware or the software manufacturer/installer.
c) the text of the EULA does not leave the manufacturer/installer the option to refuse to refund.
It only says that you have to contact them to see how to return the software in order to obtain a refund.
It was time to contact Sony, then.
Sony replied to me as follows:
Dear Mr ...,
Thank you for contacting us,
As you purchased this notebook with the knowledge that the price included the use of the operating system you were hence buying this all as one unit.
For this reason we can not offer you a refund and would have to contact Microsoft if you have any further issues in regards this.
Regards,
Thank you for contacting us,
As you purchased this notebook with the knowledge that the price included the use of the operating system you were hence buying this all as one unit.
For this reason we can not offer you a refund and would have to contact Microsoft if you have any further issues in regards this.
Regards,
I had a few things to object to this.
Of course I know the operating system is included the price, but I also know the EULA states I can get a refund.
I had a phone call with some people at Sony, who then put their position in writing, thus:
Dear Mr ...,
Thank you for taking my call today,
Please note the in the Microsoft EULA it refers to contacting the manufacturer of the software and not the notebook.
Please contact Microsoft to investigate receiving a refund.
Regards,
Thank you for taking my call today,
Please note the in the Microsoft EULA it refers to contacting the manufacturer of the software and not the notebook.
Please contact Microsoft to investigate receiving a refund.
Regards,
Good enough to me!
I wrote an email to Microsoft explaining the situation.
Microsoft's reply is the following:
Dear Mr ...,
many thanks for your request.
It is correct that "Producer or Installer" is referring to the producer
of the software license. But, in case of pre-installed licenses as on
many laoptops, the software license is produced directly by the hardware
manufacturer.
Many hardware producers have signed a contract with Microsoft
Corporation to work as an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for our
enterprise. As an OEM-Partner, a hardware manufacturer is authorized to
produce software licenses for Windows Operating Systems by their own,
and pre-configurate them onto a definite hardware.
So, those OEM-licenses are directly fixed to the hardware and are in the
full support responsibility of the hardware manufacturer. Any
replacement or returning of product parts is lying in the discretion of
the OEM partner.
many thanks for your request.
It is correct that "Producer or Installer" is referring to the producer
of the software license. But, in case of pre-installed licenses as on
many laoptops, the software license is produced directly by the hardware
manufacturer.
Many hardware producers have signed a contract with Microsoft
Corporation to work as an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for our
enterprise. As an OEM-Partner, a hardware manufacturer is authorized to
produce software licenses for Windows Operating Systems by their own,
and pre-configurate them onto a definite hardware.
So, those OEM-licenses are directly fixed to the hardware and are in the
full support responsibility of the hardware manufacturer. Any
replacement or returning of product parts is lying in the discretion of
the OEM partner.
But as they wrote "manufacturer/installer", some surprise was sure to be expected.
So, I got back to Sony, who immediately (they must be mad at me, by now) got back to me with this:
Dear Mr ...,
Thank you for your reply. Please find that your VAIO has been supplied with a OEM copy of Windows. This means that it has been tailored specifically to work with your VAIO and also included various additional software packages that are exclusive to Sony VAIO's including Intervideo WinDVD & VAIO Control Center etc.
The statement from Microsoft you have supplied indicates that the bundled copy of Windows is indeed integrated with the unit's hardware; the reference to support responsibility refers exclusively to fact that we provide full technical support for the OEM version of Windows installed.
When you purchase a VAIO, you do so voluntarily with the inclusion of all installed components; including the bundled OEM operating system; in this case Microsoft Windows Vista. Under the circumstances; we will not be offering a refund for the cost of this.
Regards
Thank you for your reply. Please find that your VAIO has been supplied with a OEM copy of Windows. This means that it has been tailored specifically to work with your VAIO and also included various additional software packages that are exclusive to Sony VAIO's including Intervideo WinDVD & VAIO Control Center etc.
The statement from Microsoft you have supplied indicates that the bundled copy of Windows is indeed integrated with the unit's hardware; the reference to support responsibility refers exclusively to fact that we provide full technical support for the OEM version of Windows installed.
When you purchase a VAIO, you do so voluntarily with the inclusion of all installed components; including the bundled OEM operating system; in this case Microsoft Windows Vista. Under the circumstances; we will not be offering a refund for the cost of this.
Regards
Most notably: the text of the EULA does not offer (whoever is to refund this license) the option to refuse.
I have pointed that out to Sony.
I also provided them with a link to this post.
This is it, for now...
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