Announcement

**toad** · Dec 11, 2008, 04:13 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

Sorry to hear that, DMerriman.

Developers are always treading a fine line. What to one is losing control is a simplification to another. Thankfully there is plenty out there to chose from.

**pansz** · Dec 11, 2008, 04:35 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

Do you think that any organization can release a new release of an OS within 6 months?

I personally do *not* believe at all, not Microsoft, not Apply, not anyone, 6-months is simply too short to make a decent distribution. So I use only LTS versions with SP1 and so far Kubuntu 8.04.1 is good, I will give Kubuntu 10.04 a try after 10.04.1 released. I regard 10.04.1 as 10.04 SP1.

If you always install at least a SP1-ready version of OS, you should be more than happy. And that's why I am a happy user of Kubuntu 8.04.1 now. I had to say Kubuntu 8.04.1 is great and I don't think I need another Kubuntu within one or two years.

Frankly speaking, life is quite limited and IMO we should concentrate on using Linux to solve our *own* problems instead of trying to solve all kinds of problems belong to Linux itself. If you follows all versions of ubuntu, which means you upgrade twice a year, I think too much unnecessary time are spent on Linux itself and that is weird .

**DMerriman** · Dec 11, 2008, 04:36 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

If you haven't, you might want to read my journal entry -- the problems I ran into weren't "development" issues, but the results of the way Kubuntu was being put together: missing files, bad settings, and so on.

**kubicle** · Dec 11, 2008, 04:58 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

A few comments:

kcontrol: You won't find kcontrol in KDE4 (that's a KDE decision, not kubuntu), it's been replaced with systemsettings (although I personally preferred the kcontrol organisation, it won't be available on KDE4 unless someone will pick it up and port it to qt4/kde4)

systemsettings: Not all configuration modules have been implemented yet in kde4...the guidance modules, one of which is the display module with gamma correction, for example, are on the todo list

static-ip: Can't speak for intrepid (I'm on Jaunty alpha), but you can set static ip settings in knetworkmanager (the wired/wireless network manager applet)

kde-removal: You can remove unwanted software without removing kde (it might remove some default meta-packages, like kubuntu-desktop, but not the actual data packages...unless they actually depend on the package you're removing, which is not common with simple frontend software. Can you give examples on what you want removed?

Much of X configuration has been moved HAL (including input devices), which allows a few advantages like smart hotplugging of devices. The system is far from perfect yet (no GUI setup, for example), but I've managed to configure middle-clicking the way I like it...it's not impossible.

dolphin/konqueror: This one is also a KDE4 decision, you can set konqueror to be your default file manager if you wish. Though KDE4 konqueror uses dolphin's kpart for the actual file management.

You're of course free to choose another distribution, but you're bound to run into most of the same issues with all distributions that use KDE4, which is still a work in progress (And it shows on Intrepid)...the KDE4.2 alpha is much better already...and it's likely all the KDE3 functionality (and then some) will be back in KDE4.3

**pansz** · Dec 11, 2008, 05:17 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

Originally posted by DMerriman

If you haven't, you might want to read my journal entry -- the problems I ran into weren't "development" issues, but the results of the way Kubuntu was being put together: missing files, bad settings, and so on.

Sure I have, but there is no perfect distributions for KDE now, all distributions have compromise something. For me the most important reason to choose Kubuntu is the huge debian-based archive I can get many sources and binaries as well as the build-dependencies of sources. Something in Kubuntu simply sucks, but that is no problem for me so long as I can live with.

Try Mandriva and openSUSE and see if they are better for you, IMO they really are much better in some particular places, but there's nothing can beat the great advantages apt-get can give.

IMHO: at the current stage most KDE-based linux distribution sucks, kubuntu is the one that sucks less.

**DMerriman** · Dec 11, 2008, 06:19 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

Originally posted by kubicle

static-ip: Can't speak for intrepid (I'm on Jaunty alpha), but you can set static ip settings in knetworkmanager (the wired/wireless network manager applet)

Whatever the issue was, I tried entering the static IP of the machine in knetman, and it still wasn't connecting; things didn't work right until I (manually!) created and edited a resolv.conf file (which still gets overwritten, btw).

Originally posted by kubicle

kde-removal: You can remove unwanted software without removing kde (it might remove some default meta-packages, like kubuntu-desktop, but not the actual data packages...unless they actually depend on the package you're removing, which is not common with simple frontend software. Can you give examples on what you want removed?

I wanted to get rid of that damn Dolphin; am including a screen cap of what it threatens to do. I'm comfortable with Linux, but not proficient enough to know how much of that list is (essentially) bluster, and how much is seriously dangerous. My default operational mode is that if I don't know what something is for, I don't fiddle with it :P

It isn't just the KDE4-specific things -- it's all the missing and unwritten config files; that's something that seems to be getting worse and worse with each Kubuntu release. It's getting REAL old and tiresome.

The apt repository system is nice, but if I can use it with something like Synaptic on a distro where they don't let necessary basic config files fall on the floor with a new release, then that's probably going to be my best bet. From what you've written (and what I've seen) KDE4 appears to have been released well before it should have; it looks like I'll either have to go back to 3.5 or learn Gnome.

I know that if I go to another distro, go back to KDE3, switch to Gnome, or anything else, it isn't going to hurt anybodys feelings -- I'm just trying to provide some feedback to the Powers That Be things are going off into the weeds. Whether anybody wants to hear it, or do anything about it, is something else entirely...

Attached Files

**hern_28** · Dec 11, 2008, 11:36 AM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

I'm actually not a Buntu user, my wife is now though. If you log on to my computers you will be greeted with Slackware or(and) Gentoo ( Why I like them is irrelevant ). If you want to argue which is best, lets start with something relevant, ie...the best way to make coffee or the best built hot-dog and I feel the same way with Linux, choose your flavor.

No distribution, even winblows if you want to count it and not limit us to Linux, can not please everyone. Oddly I always recommend easier to use distro's ( commonly the Buntus ) for new users with linux. For some its fine, others will want something different and few will become guru's and hit the tough distro's creating lots of happy Linux users.

For windows, I install, have no network along with a multitude of other problems ( If it installs

), which windows distro should I switch to. The drivers I need are no longer supported so now what. Go older and I loose IE updates because new versions of IE don't support my os.

As for Kubuntu, I have never gotten my wife to try Slackware or Gentoo ( she hates them), was bored one day so I burned a Kubuntu liveCD booted it, went to the bathroom, came back and she was using it ( She is a windows only person). I installed it on her computer and she couldn't be happier. Took a bit of work to get it to work properly ( haven't had any linux install perfectly without my help so no complaints), I don't know how to use the GUI properly so its faster for me to use xterm and nano to change settings ( but I only have to do this once, and its normal for me so.. ). And as a bonus I set my wife's login to be COMPLETELY in German ( she teaches German ), menus and everything... rock on Kubuntu!!!.

After all that being said, I think the Buntu's ( yes all of them ) are doing a great job. Installation was no more troublesome than any other I have done, like the choices on most default appearances and themes ( except for the brown in Ubuntu lol

). And I have, and will continue to recommend them for home users for their desktops. Even though they are not my personal distro of choice, simply awesome.

Now for the coffee 25%sugar and 25% cream and 50% coffee with caffeine and my hot-dogs fully loaded.

**kubicle** · Dec 11, 2008, 12:28 PM

Re: (k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

Originally posted by DMerriman

Whatever the issue was, I tried entering the static IP of the machine in knetman, and it still wasn't connecting; things didn't work right until I (manually!) created and edited a resolv.conf file (which still gets overwritten, btw).

It's probably overwritten because resolv.conf should be handled by NetworkManager (that way resolving will work on multiple different networks, like 'home', 'office', 'university' and 'ad-hoc' networks...manually setting resolv.conf is usually valid only for one network, which of course may be enough for one's needs...in that case one could probably ditch networkmanager altogether)...In your case the problem seems to be that setting static IP in knetworkmanager does not work, which could be a bug in knetworkmanager (incidentally, KDE4 still uses the old KDE3 managerapplet, KDE4 version should be in 4.2)

I wanted to get rid of that damn Dolphin; am including a screen cap of what it threatens to do. I'm comfortable with Linux, but not proficient enough to know how much of that list is (essentially) bluster, and how much is seriously dangerous. My default operational mode is that if I don't know what something is for, I don't fiddle with it

You'd want to keep kdebase-bin and kdebase-data, so you're right that dolphin can't be removed safely (it's an integral part of KDE4...as I mentioned even konqueror uses it for file management). You can safely remove konqueror, for example, and a number of other default applications, but not dolphin (I'd assume this is the case with most, if not all KDE4 distros)

KDE4 appears to have been released well before it should have

Depends on the point of view...I'm quite happy with it, but not everyone is.

It's often a necessity to release 'unfinished' software in the OS world...it's the only way to get the necessary testing/bug reports to actually 'finish' the software. On the upside, the software usually improves fast after the first releases.
...

If you like 'old-fashioned' config files, Arch Linux is IMO quite a nice distribution (it takes a bit to get it installed the first time, as it installs a very minimal system, but there is a good guide on their site)

Announcement

(k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

(k)Ubuntu going off into the weeds

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment